Anarchy? Don't make me laugh.

[maxcorwyn]

Could it be, that the reason why anarchy systems aren't providing any challenge is the fact that you have mostly 1v1 encounters?

Only situation is when you accidentally hit a second ship or your status changed to wanted while police ships are around you.

Did you ever got attacked by 2 or 3 enemy npcs at once from the beginning?

 

[CaptainKremmen]

The whole funny element about Anarchy systems is the AI in this game.

AI will never provide a challenge, Anarchy system or not. And the game is not balanced or defined around multiplayer (hence the TERRIBLE risk/reward situation in Open Play)

AI can provide a challenge, but they need one or more of:

• A correspondingly larger ship (more shields, more hull, more powerful weapons).
• Numerical superiority.

Either of these impact the player's ability to cut and run... due to the mass-lock effect.

Numerical superiority puts pressure on the player to focus fire on one target exclusively. Player is rewarded for prioritising well, positioning effectively, and getting a quick early kill. Small mistakes become very costly.

If the size/headcount difference is great enough, there should come a point when running away is the first, best option.



[Please take it as read I had a loooooong rant here about how the existence of Shield Cells in the game corrupts all of these "challenge" bullet points, haha]

Could it be, that the reason why anarchy systems aren't providing any challenge is the fact that you have mostly 1v1 encounters?

Only situation is when you accidentally hit a second ship or your status changed to wanted while police ships are around you.

Did you ever got attacked by 2 or 3 enemy npcs at once from the beginning?

Right now, we're interdicted by one pirate at a time. We're not exactly being stretched...

Bring back the "Triple missile Cobra ambush" scenario from alpha/beta, I say! That was completely, ridiculously, totally awesome.

 

[Floode]

Anarchy systems are far too easy. In the original Elite you had to be careful which systems you jumped into. Now it doesn't matter - you're pretty safe, even in the basic Sidewinder.

In Anarchy systems, the chances of interdiction should be much greater. You should be attacked by multiple ships (say, two or three) at a time. Anarchy systems should strike fear into the heart of greenhorns, and experienced players should take caution in those systems.

 

[uncle bulgaria]

Yes, unfortunately anarchy systems aren't to be feared. I can easily generate the same returns in non-anarchy systems as in anarchy systems. I'd love to see FD bump up the danger and rewards in anarchy systems - make them something to truly fear.

Agreed, they're not particularly dangerous currently. In the original BBC version it was hard work making it to an anarchy station.

 

[Arubeto]

Agree, I think anarchy systems should be much more dangerous than they are now. The people who think it's to dangerous to fly around them could stick to safe routes. It would give the gameworld a much more distinguished feel if you could tell if you are in a anarchy system from the moment you reach it (and not by locking at some UI element, but by the number of wanted and pirate players that would attack you as soon as you arrive).

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100% agreed with OP

anarchy systems should by no means -- and from the off -- be a place one waltzes into whistling The Ricky Gervais Show tune. in a type-6. jam-packed with 5-grand-a-pop performance enhancers. shieldless. weaponless. then land on an outpost controlled by some fear-us! named faction, unload and exchange for no-laundering-needed profit, then whistle away towards one of 400 billion sunsets.

one should be entering an anarchy system -- especially one with stations in it -- shaking, trembling, sweating. thinking twice, three, nay, 10 times before punching in the destination, then pushing the jump button dual-handedly. not hauling 600K worth of cargo, but packing as much heat as the ship can physically take. and a spare pair of pants, too.

if i do have issue with this awesome game, it's this. repped.

CMDR Drbois

Very well put! Have some rep!

 

[natte hond]

the anarchy systems should be that dangerous so the the new players keeps out of them until he handles the pressure.
something like this could reduce the "I was grieved discussion" and it could be use as borders to the more intense sections.
also a gradual intensity would be nice , thus the deeper you get the harder it gets and or the better the gain.
this also for mining results.
thus police at the outer rim of it wont be that strange.

a possible positive side effect could be that you are sometimes better of travelling together with that stranger you just met.
this would improve the multi player against the AI aspect.
and ad more of a social experience in the game.

some fear the social sides in games but its highly successful in the games of today.

 

[Arubeto]

a possible positive side effect could be that you are sometimes better of travelling together with that stranger you just met.
this would improve the multi player against the AI aspect.
and ad more of a social experience in the game.

That is actually a great idea! Perhaps players would indeed learn to cooperate in those situations! Could be a very cool experience if it happens like you describe.

 

[Matnik]

Try getting through Ngaliba whilst my pirate friends and I are online, we'll see how dangerous it is then. The NPCs don't make it dangerous, but players do. Players don't accrue bounty in anarchy systems for kills, so there's much more incentive for players to hang around.

Unless, of course, you're playing solo, in which case you're purposefully making your game easy by removing any element of human intelligence and pitting yourself against the toaster-level AI.

 

[Quineloe]

Could it be, that the reason why anarchy systems aren't providing any challenge is the fact that you have mostly 1v1 encounters?

Only situation is when you accidentally hit a second ship or your status changed to wanted while police ships are around you.

Did you ever got attacked by 2 or 3 enemy npcs at once from the beginning?

That's what I'm saying. Get a bounty, get 1t of gold in your cargo hold and go to an Anarchy Nav beacon. See how long you'll last.

Try getting through Ngaliba whilst my pirate friends and I are online, we'll see how dangerous it is then. The NPCs don't make it dangerous, but players do. Players don't accrue bounty in anarchy systems for kills, so there's much more incentive for players to hang around.

Unless, of course, you're playing solo, in which case you're purposefully making your game easy by removing any element of human intelligence and pitting yourself against the toaster-level AI.

This, too. Three players perished in Ngaliba at my hands because they thought shooting at me for fun would be "harmless fun" or scooping up the cargo I just shot out of a trader's hold is fair game

 

[Arubeto]

Try getting through Ngaliba whilst my pirate friends and I are online, we'll see how dangerous it is then. The NPCs don't make it dangerous, but players do. Players don't accrue bounty in anarchy systems for kills, so there's much more incentive for players to hang around.

Unless, of course, you're playing solo, in which case you're purposefully making your game easy by removing any element of human intelligence and pitting yourself against the toaster-level AI.

While this is great, you and your pirate friends can't be everywhere at the same time. There are lots of anarchy systems out there where no player pirates are around, hence the need to increase the threat coming from NPC pirates in those systems.

 

[Luponator]

The whole funny element about Anarchy systems is the AI in this game.

AI will never provide a challenge, Anarchy system or not. And the game is not balanced or defined around multiplayer (hence the TERRIBLE risk/reward situation in Open Play)

I would disagree. FD stated in another thread that they can make the AI much, much nastier and being a real issue for human players, and I'd believe that at once. Which as many others have more eloquently stated is exactly what's needed in Anarchy systems.

 

[CelticWarrior72]

In the original - Amstrad CPC464 (1986) - anytime you went near an anarchy planet you needed an energy bomb and an escape pod just-in-case. As soon as you warped in you'd be hit by up to 5 pirates of different types and probably 3-4 waves more before you got close enough to the station to use a docking computer. I think that Frontier should dial up the AI difficulty waaaay more than what they have done so far. Make visiting an anarchy or feudal system a real test of nerves.

 

[Red Kite]

In the original I remember anarchy systems being a serious challenge:

• It took multiple micro-jumps from drop-in to reach the station. Each one an interdiction by one or more pirates.
• You could not jump again until all enemies had been destroyed, no escape allowed!

It could sometimes take 20-30 minutes of hard fighting to reach safety, good combat skills were essential and no novice pilot who entered an anarchy was likely to survive. I remember the feeling of trepidation the first time I entered one (and no... I didn't get through!)

I find anarchies and NPC interdictions in general to be too easy at present. I realise there are some pilots who run trading ships with minimal combat gear (not a feature in the original game, combat was everything then). That's fair enough, but no such ship should even think of entering an anarchy system until wingmen escorts are in the game.

This game does wonderfully well at recreating the feel of the original, but this is one area I feel is a bit lacking.

 

[maxcorwyn]

That's what I'm saying. Get a bounty, get 1t of gold in your cargo hold and go to an Anarchy Nav beacon. See how long you'll last.

But even so, you will only be attacked 1 by 1.

This is a fundemental flaw in game mechanic, in my opinion.
Imagine an mmo where mobs don't group/baf. You only fight one after another. Ah, and don't forget there are guards swarming around everywhere attacking your targets.
(Yeah.. yeah ED is no mmo. Whatever)

And i'm not even mentioning the "sphere of interest" aka "aggro range" of npcs...
I opened a thread about npc group behaviour but it seems noone is interested.

 

[Quineloe]

But even so, you will only be attacked 1 by 1. .

Spoken like someone who did not try this yet.

 

[maxcorwyn]

Spoken like someone who did not try this yet.

I'm talking about npcs actually grouping to hunt a player. They act as individuals.
Not talking about single npcs "reacting", because you enter their "sphere".
Which can be quite good exploited.
If you don't come close to an npc while being attacked by another one you can calmly get rid of them one by one.

 

[Arubeto]

If you don't come close to an npc while being attacked by another one you can calmly get rid of them one by one.

Yes, that's absolutely true and bothers me a lot. I keep wondering why I can shoot down a pirate of a group of four ships at a USS that demanded my cargo a moment ago, while his three friends just perform space pirouettes and never bother to help their buddy who gets blown to pieces. Instead, they all wait in the near vicinity waiting for their turn to be taken apart by the player (it's like those old Kung Fu-movies where the bystanders would only attack Bruce Lee after he dealt with his current enemy.)

 

[CaptainKremmen]

But even so, you will only be attacked 1 by 1.

This is a fundemental flaw in game mechanic, in my opinion.
Imagine an mmo where mobs don't group/baf. You only fight one after another. Ah, and don't forget there are guards swarming around everywhere attacking your targets.
(Yeah.. yeah ED is no mmo. Whatever)

And i'm not even mentioning the "sphere of interest" aka "aggro range" of npcs...
I opened a thread about npc group behaviour but it seems noone is interested.

Group behaviour can certainly be improved. I've had occasional moments when factional allies of pirates have all gone hostile to me after attacking one ship... but that's not all that common.


To be honest, I'm more keen to see multiple ship scenarios for interdictions, with cohesive links from the "supercruise" instance into the "normal flight" post-interdiction instance. I put these together last week... and apologies if I'm repeating myself here...





(original post here)

Back when interdictions were "faked" (ie. before the mechanic itself was implemented), we were presented with a range of scenarios FD built for our amusement. Some of them were quite challenging. Hence my attempts to suggest getting set upon by multiple pirates... preferably with the number of hostiles correlating to a system's level of security.

 

[natte hond]

The whole funny element about Anarchy systems is the AI in this game.

AI will never provide a challenge, Anarchy system or not. And the game is not balanced or defined around multiplayer (hence the TERRIBLE risk/reward situation in Open Play)

I would disagree. FD stated in another thread that they can make the AI much, much nastier and being a real issue for human players, and I'd believe that at once. Which as many others have more eloquently stated is exactly what's needed in Anarchy systems.

yes , as an alpha tester I can confirm what Luponator said.
we have seen various strength of AI some times close to impossible to beat.

Fd has put allot of time in it to balance it.
it could very well be that they lowered it a bit cos the wings update is still to come.
back then players would come together to crack open a piñata (anaconda).
only few were able to do it at their own.

the working together makes it allot more fun.
unfortunately drive slaving is cancelled and the answer too that remains to be seen.
meanwhile lots of us have noticed problems with sharing the same instance.
something that is demotivating working together terribly.

as soon as the wings are implemented I like to see joined missions.
missions that are that hard its impossible to manage on your own.
those should be liked to rank advancement to motivate do to them.

but in the end yes there are various strength of AI and its very easy for FD to over power them.
be asured you wont make it every time.

 

[supersane]

maniacal laughter. u have no idea how hard crimson triumph used to be. i miss him, sometimes i kill him sadly remembering the pilot he used to