As soon as you graze someone, get the hell out of the instance to avoid the murderbounty. Boost time!
Another C&P Rant
- Thread starter Old Duck
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As soon as you graze someone, get the hell out of the instance to avoid the murderbounty. Boost time!
Murderer.
I'll do you one better.
I was in my cutter, bounty hunting, saw a pirate attacking a nearly-dead miner. Focused the pirate and took them down, using mostly turrets, didn't get any reckless fire or assault charges or the like. Moments after the pirate blew up...
Clang. Course shifted barely noticeably. Pop.. pop... pop.... BOOM. The miner had crashed into me. And was so damaged from the fight that this was enough to finish them off.
BOUNTY INCURRED. 5000cr murder bounty and notoriety, without the accompanying assault charge.
When it comes to anything, simplicity and logic (and simple common sense) are the key to doing it best. I'm beginning to see why ED is so buggy, because the same minds that conjure up convoluted gameplay are the ones that conjure up the computer code that makes the game
The funny thing is, we have real life C&P systems that Frontier could have modeled into the game, instead of pulling this rabbit out of Sandro's programmer brain. Frontier should bring in a local bobby to help them with the next revision to C&P (if there is one). Having experts advise in the production of a game or movie is nothing new.
The problem with that is that ED isn't a normal society, with normal rules, and 'real life C&P' makes zero sense in a computer game like ED. Many people in this topic and elsewhere tend to post blanket 'Just make it simpler/better!' comments, without actually suggesting a better/simpler system. And at the core of the issue is the unbridgeable gap between the feeling people have that the game should provide a thousand different safety nets and exceptions for when they themselves commit a crime, while simultaneously expecting C&P to brutally punish anyone that does something they dont like. But we cant have our cake and eat it too; either the system is very forgiving (OMG GRIEFERS!!!!!!) or it is very strict (OMG NOT FAIR I DIDNT MEAN TO COMMIT CRIMES!!!!!), or something in between, which is what we got in the end. The idea that there exists a better system that covers both ends of the spectrum yet cannot be gamed by a community that loves exploits while also remaining transparent and simple seems to be flawed.
But if you or anyone can think of a better system that is simple, and I mean really a system where you accurately and fully described the rules and procedures instead of the usual 'dunno something good lol' suggestions, lets hear it.
edit- good examples all over this topic. For example:
This is literally demanding that it is okay to tear a miner apart with beam energy weapons as long as 'you didnt mean to'. There is no sensible C&P that both allows murder while also not allowing murder.
Can we get murder forgiveness? I never really get bounties and rarely get fines. So when a cop flies in front of me in a wing assassination mission, then promptly dies, and I get a murder charge and notoriety of 1 and spend the next few hours flying in a straight line away from the sun to get it wiped off so I can go back to my home station and into a haz-res with my friends and do some bounty hunting. I really feel like the punishment is pretty severe in the fact it literally makes me want to log out and not play for a week or longer. The punishment seems to literally be a punishment to tell you to stop playing Elite Dangerous because they are actively trying to make the game "unfun" for something that you would have a hard time really saying is a "crime", especially in the sense there was no intent to hit the copy in the paper-armor eagle.
So can we get some murder forgiveness in here? Maybe if you havent killed anyone clean in an hour then your notoriety goes to -1, people pull you over literally to dump their cargo for you, constantly interdict you to give you rare materials, and stations give you money just for docking. Or at the very least...you get a freebie pass on the unusual random "murder" of the cop who should have looked both ways before crossing the laser streams?
My Notoriety is still at one, I am well over 1,000,000 Ls from the star, so clearly I have more time to kill with this post before my notoriety goes back down. Maybe people should start writing threads like this and e-mailing FDev when they are spending hours doing nothing trying to get their notoriety down, especially if it is from something trivial like a cop flying in front of your beam lasers.
Why is it you get anything other than a fine for hitting something for under 1 second? Maybe you should need to do Hull Damage and hit someone for a few seconds before we count things as murder? I still think Murder Forgiveness should be a thing with this overly aggressive punish the player system setup. Make it so that a player needs to have a bounty of like 50,000 before they get ANY notoriety regardless of what they do. For a game where there is so much "space" and it is so empty....having a single point in notoriety means you will be chased millions of Ls from a star by a bounty hunter looking to collect $5400. To me that doesn't make a lot of sense.
That game GTA, when you are first having cops come after you for committing one small crime, they barely pay any attention to you, and as you go on a rampage murdering tons of people, then the cops start to care, why is Elite not like that? There is a ramp up of attention from continuously committing crimes, not just one small things and then all cops immediately track on you and everyone chases you an unreasonable distance to try to collect your tiny bounty, and you can't even go in a haz rez without bounty hunters harassing you constantly. It should be a rarity, not a certainty.
PLEASE make the punishment fit the crime...and cops running in front of my beam lasers seems like a relatively petty crime even if they end up dying a full 30+ seconds later from the Assassination target that the cop was attacking. Yay for the cop, lost in the line of space duty, but hardly a crime on my part I think.
Murder Forgiveness, and negative notoriety parades. That is what the game needs. It will make the punishment system also have a "we won't ruin the game and make it unfun for hours" reward aspect.
Please and thank you for not "wasting gamers time..."
So can we get some murder forgiveness in here? Maybe if you havent killed anyone clean in an hour then your notoriety goes to -1, people pull you over literally to dump their cargo for you, constantly interdict you to give you rare materials, and stations give you money just for docking. Or at the very least...you get a freebie pass on the unusual random "murder" of the cop who should have looked both ways before crossing the laser streams?
My Notoriety is still at one, I am well over 1,000,000 Ls from the star, so clearly I have more time to kill with this post before my notoriety goes back down. Maybe people should start writing threads like this and e-mailing FDev when they are spending hours doing nothing trying to get their notoriety down, especially if it is from something trivial like a cop flying in front of your beam lasers.
Why is it you get anything other than a fine for hitting something for under 1 second? Maybe you should need to do Hull Damage and hit someone for a few seconds before we count things as murder? I still think Murder Forgiveness should be a thing with this overly aggressive punish the player system setup. Make it so that a player needs to have a bounty of like 50,000 before they get ANY notoriety regardless of what they do. For a game where there is so much "space" and it is so empty....having a single point in notoriety means you will be chased millions of Ls from a star by a bounty hunter looking to collect $5400. To me that doesn't make a lot of sense.
That game GTA, when you are first having cops come after you for committing one small crime, they barely pay any attention to you, and as you go on a rampage murdering tons of people, then the cops start to care, why is Elite not like that? There is a ramp up of attention from continuously committing crimes, not just one small things and then all cops immediately track on you and everyone chases you an unreasonable distance to try to collect your tiny bounty, and you can't even go in a haz rez without bounty hunters harassing you constantly. It should be a rarity, not a certainty.
PLEASE make the punishment fit the crime...and cops running in front of my beam lasers seems like a relatively petty crime even if they end up dying a full 30+ seconds later from the Assassination target that the cop was attacking. Yay for the cop, lost in the line of space duty, but hardly a crime on my part I think.
Murder Forgiveness, and negative notoriety parades. That is what the game needs. It will make the punishment system also have a "we won't ruin the game and make it unfun for hours" reward aspect.
Please and thank you for not "wasting gamers time..."
Different stations different services, for example it also lacks outfitting. Not the place to get careless really.
The problem with that is that ED isn't a normal society, with normal rules, and 'real life C&P' makes zero sense in a computer game like ED. Many people in this topic and elsewhere tend to post blanket 'Just make it simpler/better!' comments, without actually suggesting a better/simpler system. And at the core of the issue is the unbridgeable gap between the feeling people have that the game should provide a thousand different safety nets and exceptions for when they themselves commit a crime, while simultaneously expecting C&P to brutally punish anyone that does something they dont like. But we cant have our cake and eat it too; either the system is very forgiving (OMG GRIEFERS!!!!!!) or it is very strict (OMG NOT FAIR I DIDNT MEAN TO COMMIT CRIMES!!!!!), or something in between, which is what we got in the end. The idea that there exists a better system that covers both ends of the spectrum yet cannot be gamed by a community that loves exploits while also remaining transparent and simple seems to be flawed.
But if you or anyone can think of a better system that is simple, and I mean really a system where you accurately and fully described the rules and procedures instead of the usual 'dunno something good lol' suggestions, lets hear it.
edit- good examples all over this topic. For example:
This is literally demanding that it is okay to tear a miner apart with beam energy weapons as long as 'you didnt mean to'. There is no sensible C&P that both allows murder while also not allowing murder.
It is true what you say that ed is not normal society with normal life rules. I made the point earlier in the post that there is no cmdr death or even prision for that matter, this makes C&P a challenge in any normal sense. However, it is a game so any C&P system should have a an element of of fun about it, whether that is crimal type behaviour or bounty hunting even trading/smuggling. The should be consequences for getting caught but rewards for getting away with criminal behaviour. I think the best way to see the ED galaxy, is like a wild west set in space. Pockets of "civilisation" exist where "normal" C&P rules apply but space is big and it is mostly and criminals paradise. Too be fair FDev's, the ethos behind C&P is a sound one, their is no black and white just shades of grey in a dangerous galaxy. Unfortunately, FDev haven't constructed a system really is very logical or produces much gameplay, let alone the parts of system like to OP that is just broken.
I have had a go at a C&P system for ED over the last couple of years with the latest being on this link. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...he-current-system-but-adds-depth-and-gameplay let me know what you think!
The problem with that is that ED isn't a normal society, with normal rules, and 'real life C&P' makes zero sense in a computer game like ED. Many people in this topic and elsewhere tend to post blanket 'Just make it simpler/better!' comments, without actually suggesting a better/simpler system. And at the core of the issue is the unbridgeable gap between the feeling people have that the game should provide a thousand different safety nets and exceptions for when they themselves commit a crime, while simultaneously expecting C&P to brutally punish anyone that does something they dont like. But we cant have our cake and eat it too; either the system is very forgiving (OMG GRIEFERS!!!!!!) or it is very strict (OMG NOT FAIR I DIDNT MEAN TO COMMIT CRIMES!!!!!), or something in between, which is what we got in the end. The idea that there exists a better system that covers both ends of the spectrum yet cannot be gamed by a community that loves exploits while also remaining transparent and simple seems to be flawed.
But if you or anyone can think of a better system that is simple, and I mean really a system where you accurately and fully described the rules and procedures instead of the usual 'dunno something good lol' suggestions, lets hear it.
edit- good examples all over this topic. For example:
This is literally demanding that it is okay to tear a miner apart with beam energy weapons as long as 'you didnt mean to'. There is no sensible C&P that both allows murder while also not allowing murder.
I think C&P is one example where developer should be very careful with feedback. There big gulf between "I got bugged, there is no contact to pay off fine so that's bad" and "I did crimes against NPCs, I though that's ok".
I see lot of improvements required for C&P and I hope really FD have done some homework there for Q4. But overall I find new version much clearer in it's goals than previous one. It isn't perfect, but that's why it needs to be improved.
Just for taster...I did planetary scan recently. I knew it will be a crime, I investigated and already plotted course to nearby IF representative even before I did it. And if you move in mini bubble and if you about to engage in potential dangerous situation, be aware of your options. It is simple as that.
It's goal was never to provide gameplay. It is mechanic that ensures consequences for criminal activity within game. And also it is quite logical. I am still surprised how people can find it that complex. There's nothing complex about it, at all.
Now, if you want to discuss penalties, harshness, etc. Then it is something entirely different. Mechanic itself is just fine.
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But cuff's right, you are a murderer. Sure, maybe you didn't fire the final killing shot, but you did some damage, contributed to his demise, and we're an accidental accomplice in the mdk of another pikot- the auto-AI crime recording system has no means of identifying your intent, just that you fired on a clean civilian ship. Honestly, all I can say for these incredibly rare mishaps (bugs aside) - and they are incredibly rare given how often they happen compared to the number of pilots and combat situations - is a big boo hoo. You got caught out by a combination of a rudimentary crime reporting AI and your reflexes. Pat your piddly fine and move on.
Surely "Contacts" is one of those station services which is ubiquitous though? I mean, "Contacts" isn't even a filter you can apply in things like EDDB. Literally any other service I can imagine being unavailable, but Contacts? Particularly if it's fundamental to normal operation of the C&P system?
(For what it's worth, EDSM shows 58,404 stations with Contacts, 62,167 stations total. Interestingly, 58,381 stations have Missions, 58,285 have universal cartographics... unfortunately can't work out how to do "Not" searches...)
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I respectly disagree to the point C&P is not about gameplay. ED is game or at the very least C&P, definately falls in the game aspect, not the simulation side, for reasons already mentioned (no death). It is after all a non linear and free roaming, where cmdrs can fit weapons to their ships and shoot other ships, for whatever motivation they feel. Crime is endorsed as gameplay, i.e. you can get missions from the mission board that are criminal, this is all gameplay, C&P mechnics therefore closely linked to gameplay.
It is true that C&P should provided consquences for criminal activity, that is it's main function. The latest C&P system does try and do this, it is not all bad but it was fundamentally flawed due to hotships not being logical. Crimes following the ship or being able to pay off your own bounty, even in a game sense, is not logical. This caused problems for the system, which, was then patched and patch again, as more inconsistancies came about. Not least of all accidental fire incidence, which is the theme of this thread and many others.
Not all of FDev ideas are bad but the over all system does not work very well. It is definately a lot more than just about penalties, that is for sure.
Hey old duck,
perhaps this is an ideal opportunity to pursue a life of crime[arrrr] its a great angle for roleplay...being persued across the galaxy for an unpaid parking ticket hahaha
perhaps this is an ideal opportunity to pursue a life of crime[arrrr] its a great angle for roleplay...being persued across the galaxy for an unpaid parking ticket hahaha
That looks like a massive effort post, I'll give it some proper attention tomorrow and get back to you.
Does it matter ?. Most of the time you've got other stations nearby plus IF's so sorting these things is easy. In Oldducks case he's managed to find the least convenient place in the galaxy to make this specific mistake. The remoteness can be an attractive feature, but it comes at a cost services wise and theses area's feel genuinely remote.
Spoiled for choice.
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I think that's not really relvant in this case. I did a little research and noted that there's fortunately another Asteroid Base nearby, in Lagoon Sector FW-W d1-122 (Attenborough's Watch) where the fine could have been paid as Colonia Council are also present there and it (seems to?) have Contacts.
But if you copped a fine with a faction present only in one system, with control of the only outpost in that system, and it didn't have contacts, it would literally be impossible to pay, and that seems like broken rather than status-quo gameplay. Unfortunately, due to the lack of ability to do the mentioned "Not" query, I can't find an example of that, though I'm almost certain it exists in one of those 4,000 stations.
My comment about the discrepancy between total stations and total with contacts was rather to point out that an absence of Contacts (and other near-ubiquitous services like missions/cartographics) seems more like a bug, rather than "just a service that isn't available". Again, I can come up with every roleplay reason on earth to imagine how any other service might not be available, but to not have the Contacts panel (that is, the ability to talk to people on the station) seems pretty ridiculous.
It's OK, they'll all be running off to Store Citizen at some point.
Less places to "hide" there, considering there's less than 20 actual systems to fly around in, after all. Makes a lot more sense to camp a smaller area.
The Pendulum of Change always comes back around. English may be a "harsh mistress"... but History is even tougher.
Less places to "hide" there, considering there's less than 20 actual systems to fly around in, after all.
Makes a lot more sense to camp a smaller area.The Pendulum of Change always comes back around. English may be a "harsh mistress"... but History is even tougher.
I just checked you are right, all of Oldducks drama related to him thinking he had to travel 4000ly's (so he claimed anyway) to sort it out.
Turns out the real distance was 30.69 ly a single jump for pretty much anything except a specialized battlewagon.
So you definitely have a point, it's just not relevant to any of this as it was a right load of pebcak.
lol no