Another ganked story. PVP off option in open play please

I just logged in after not playing the game since odyssey came out and immediately I got ganked for no reason of course. I'm salty about it. I was interdicted once and got away and the second time even with reticle in the blue they were able to interdict me. I asked "What do you want?" and 5 seconds later my ship blew up.

I was just exploring with my ASP. I could have shamefully combat logged out but took the chance to ask a question. Nope. I got destroyed. Why won't the developers just add a PVP off button?

I have to play privately or solo to avoid this sort of behavior. There are so many topics about gankers spanning across different community forums with arguments from both sides. Some say it's "elite dangerous bro" or "get gud" or just play private.

If we could just turn off PVP in open play we wouldn't have to split the community into solo's or private groups. The ganker would see us and not be able to feed his toxic behavior and basically kick rocks. If I wanted to PVP, I would just flip the button on with an added cooldown. A simple solution that even other games use so why not here?
 
What would be the point of any piracy (and I appreciate I use the term loosely) if whenever a target is chased the pirate gets close only to realise that it's another CMDR with an infinite shield switched on? How would any interactions happen? Does your infinite shield extend to NPCs trying to interdict you as well?

Now, I understand your saltiness but I would rather you didn't turn away from open entirely and certainly not lose you from the game overall. But the answer to not dying in open isn't magic infinite shields but actually better understanding of the general game mechanics. If you're planning on straying into a high traffic system (and I'm going to use my crystal ball here and guess that you might have been in the current CG system HIP 22460), then you have to accept that there will be gankers there. So fit a decent shield, extra hull and learn how to evade. Realise that an unengineered 3D shield on an AspX only gives you 71Mj of shield and that most CMDRs only need to sneeze to blow that up.

It's switching on hard mode for this game. I enjoy hard mode. It's fun and a constant challenge. And if you don't fancy hard mode then there are PG's like Mobius which have high member numbers for non PvP interaction in CG areas particularly.

Sometimes I don't want the bother of dealing with real humans and I'll switch to solo. And that's also fine.
 
I just logged in after not playing the game since odyssey came out and immediately I got ganked for no reason of course. I'm salty about it. I was interdicted once and got away and the second time even with reticle in the blue they were able to interdict me. I asked "What do you want?" and 5 seconds later my ship blew up.

I was just exploring with my ASP. I could have shamefully combat logged out but took the chance to ask a question. Nope. I got destroyed. Why won't the developers just add a PVP off button?

I have to play privately or solo to avoid this sort of behavior. There are so many topics about gankers spanning across different community forums with arguments from both sides. Some say it's "elite dangerous bro" or "get gud" or just play private.

If we could just turn off PVP in open play we wouldn't have to split the community into solo's or private groups. The ganker would see us and not be able to feed his toxic behavior and basically kick rocks. If I wanted to PVP, I would just flip the button on with an added cooldown. A simple solution that even other games use so why not here?
Just stay in solo and save the grief mate.
Dont give the basement warriors the satisfaction.

O7
 
I wouldn't implement any sort of shield. Just make the PVE players invisible, but still visible on the radar and able to communicate via system chat. Like 1 instance phasing out PVP and PVE players. You'd have a cooldown switching between modes and have to jump out of the system and back in for it to take effect or log out and log back in. You’d have a color tag on radar to differentiate PVP from PVE players so that PVP players can chase after those interested.

I know this is such a simple solution, but somehow people seem to dislike it. It's not clear to me why?

We are technically already doing this with private groups like Mobius. So why not keep it all on one server instead of splitting the player base across different servers? Why do we compromise with griefers?

I've been griefed in open so many times I got salt up to my neck. The Mobius group is fine, but it has a limited number of players. I see way more people in the open and it's pleasant to say hello and interact with other players in the random corners of space. Much harder to do in mobius.

You don't need other players to be a pirate in this game. So it's not that you can't enjoy being a pirate without players. Piracy roleplay is fun when it works. I've only taken part in it once as victim and it was funny. Every other time it was a griefer so I don't mind not having piracy against other players.
 
I know this is such a simple solution, but somehow people seem to dislike it. It's not clear to me why?

Because it attempts to carve out an artificial and arbitrary dichotomy that would further detract from the experience of less conflict adverse players.

Just because I'm accepting of anything that the existing mechanisms allow doesn't mean I want to have my CMDR flagged as looking for trouble. I'm not going to opt out of my own immersion by making my CMDR immune to attack, even if I'm having my CMDR try his damnedest to avoid hostile CMDRs.

Likewise, being able to be in the same instance as other CMDRs but being immune to them is a mechanism that would be immediately and widely abused. Being able to act as a wing anchor or observer for a hostile group, or mess with others via NPC proxies, while being immune to any meaningful counter other than blocking (which has it's own set of potential issues) would certainly be a popular use of such a flagging mechanism.

We are technically already doing this with private groups like Mobius.

Except that in a PG like Mobius anyone encountered is playing a CMDR that is ostensibly bound by the same set of fundamental rules that they are.

What you seem to want is "Open PvE", and your proposal may be equivalent to that for you, but it wouldn't amount to that for a whole lot of other people.

You don't need other players to be a pirate in this game. So it's not that you can't enjoy being a pirate without players. Piracy roleplay is fun when it works. I've only taken part in it once as victim and it was funny. Every other time it was a griefer so I don't mind not having piracy against other players.

I don't agree with this line of logic at all.

I'd argue that:

- For piracy to be anything other than a formulaic grind, as either the perpetrator or a target, the opponent must be a player character, because NPCs are predictable, largely inept, and utterly no threat to a vaguely experienced CMDR. As the pirate, the biggest challenge is keeping up with a disabled and drifting NPC to get anything meaningful out of it. As a trader, or other potential piracy target, no NPC is going to win an interdiction against my CMDR, unless I allow them to; no hostile NPC in the same instance is going to survive long enough to attempt hatchbreak my CMDR's vessel, unless I allow it; and should I allow things to get that far, I still need to refrain from popping that ECM to lose any cargo. Having to willfully opt into three levels of abject failure to experience a meaningful loss scenario is not my idea of role-playing, immersion, or entertainment.

- Piracy is not remotely the only legitimate hostile interaction.

- Not every, probably not even the majority of, CMDR on CMDR attacks are launched with the intent to cause grief to another player, even if they are seemingly unprovoked.

Then go exploring with a 17ly jump range....right!

About two-thirds of my CMDR's lifetime exploration data was gathered in a ship with just over a 14ly jump range.
 
Er....well to be utterly obvious, I have both. A dbx fully engineered for exploring as is my krait ll, and a murder boat or 2....actually 3. So no....I wouldn't go exploring in an fdl. Suggesting it is daft.

Then why are you suggesting an explorer should outfit a short jump range murder boat when they want to explore? That's not a solution to their problem, the solution to their problem is probably in the end going to be playing in solo so FDL murder boat gankers can't get at them.
 
Because it attempts to carve out an artificial and arbitrary dichotomy that would further detract from the experience of less conflict adverse players.

Giving players the choice affects your chances of PvP?
It's not even close to being arbitrary when the decision is made by the player.

Just because I'm accepting of anything that the existing mechanisms allow doesn't mean I want to have my CMDR flagged as looking for trouble. I'm not going to opt out of my own immersion by making my CMDR immune to attack, even if I'm having my CMDR try his damnedest to avoid hostile CMDRs.

Than don't opt out. Again the way explained it was simple. There is no immunity when you can't see the PvE player. Again you can't see players in solo or PG Mobius so are they technically immune by your definition? How disruptive that must be to your game.

Likewise, being able to be in the same instance as other CMDRs but being immune to them is a mechanism that would be immediately and widely abused. Being able to act as a wing anchor or observer for a hostile group, or mess with others via NPC proxies, while being immune to any meaningful counter other than blocking (which has it's own set of potential issues) would certainly be a popular use of such a flagging mechanism.

Can't wing between PvE and PvP so no wing anchor. I can see how someone could be an observer for others but that's technically a flaw already in the game itself. If an area is full of PvP players and you have to traverse or spy you can just pop into solo and get across/or spy and pop right back into open. This is already a thing and has been for a long time. Unfortunately no cooldown was ever added to mitigate this flaw.

As for showing up on the radar perhaps a transponder of some sort would solve the issue. Players could opt in making themselves visible on radar. Meaning if I were to turn off my transponder I wouldn't be able to see the opposing side be it in PvP or PvE. I think this could work. Thoughts anyone?

Except that in a PG like Mobius anyone encountered is playing a CMDR that is ostensibly bound by the same set of fundamental rules that they are.

What you seem to want is "Open PvE", and your proposal may be equivalent to that for you, but it wouldn't amount to that for a whole lot of other people.

PG Mobius rules are upheld by the players themselves. You have to apply on a website to get an invite. At least they have community moderators that you can report to. Can you report griefers in open?

Mobius is open PvP but with a set of rules if upheld by those who join make it feel like open PvE. A griefer could just as easily join Mobius and grief as many players before getting kicked out and blocked. And being kicked or blocked have the same result in the end. An excluded player.

I don't agree with this line of logic at all.

I'd argue that:

- For piracy to be anything other than a formulaic grind, as either the perpetrator or a target, the opponent must be a player character, because NPCs are predictable, largely inept, and utterly no threat to a vaguely experienced CMDR. As the pirate, the biggest challenge is keeping up with a disabled and drifting NPC to get anything meaningful out of it. As a trader, or other potential piracy target, no NPC is going to win an interdiction against my CMDR, unless I allow them to; no hostile NPC in the same instance is going to survive long enough to attempt hatchbreak my CMDR's vessel, unless I allow it; and should I allow things to get that far, I still need to refrain from popping that ECM to lose any cargo. Having to willfully opt into three levels of abject failure to experience a meaningful loss scenario is not my idea of role-playing, immersion, or entertainment.

- Piracy is not remotely the only legitimate hostile interaction.

- Not every, probably not even the majority of, CMDR on CMDR attacks are launched with the intent to cause grief to another player, even if they are seemingly unprovoked.

If you're getting interdicted then you should be able to assume that the intention isn't pure of heart. Interdicting another player is a provocation. Now if it's a pirate or griefer, that grey area will never find out but it's safe to assume it's nothing good.

Pirate NPC are too easy you say? Maybe ask frontier to scale the difficulty based on your level/rank idk
I kinda like where they are now though I am more of a casual player.

About two-thirds of my CMDR's lifetime exploration data was gathered in a ship with just over a 14ly jump range.

Lol for many good reasons. I remember I couldn't afford anything better and we didn't have engineers back then.

I also wanted to say that instance phasing together would also populate areas more with more players. Stations and systems would have more player traffic instead of just NPC's. I believe WoW did something similar to mitigate barren worlds?

Anyways it's a pity that a divide exists in the first place...
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
I can see how someone could be an observer for others but that's technically a flaw already in the game itself. If an area is full of PvP players and you have to traverse or spy you can just pop into solo and get across/or spy and pop right back into open. This is already a thing and has been for a long time. Unfortunately no cooldown was ever added to mitigate this flaw.
Mode switching may be a flaw for some - it's a feature for others, i.e. it permits players to play the way they want to, not the way that other players want them to.
As for showing up on the radar perhaps a transponder of some sort would solve the issue. Players could opt in making themselves visible on radar. Meaning if I were to turn off my transponder I wouldn't be able to see the opposing side be it in PvP or PvE. I think this could work. Thoughts anyone?
The possibility of a switchable transponder to distinguish players from NPCs was discussed at length in the DDF during Alpha back in 2014 and not taken forward.
 
you're aware that system chat still works in private and solo, right?

Lol, yes I understand what you're saying but that wasn't the point I made.

Imagine playing in open and let's say you're at a popular station but sadly there isn't anyone there but if you hop over to Mobius it's packed with players. So why not phase that together so when you're in open at the exact same station you can see everyone and chat with them.

Now you won't see everyone exactly because the game is region locked. And also game has limited player count per host bubble(think 32 max)
 
Then go exploring with a 17ly jump range....right!
No... I have a better idea!

Instead of a Meta-de-Lance, outfit a Federal Dropship for PvP and then spontaneously decide to take it on a 30k LY round-trip journey to what I now call the Dragonflame Nebula (Blau Aescs AA-A H2) with a glorious 20ish LY jump range in the time before the Discovery Scanner changes (circa 2018):

HighResScreenShot_2017-11-11_18-16-01.jpg

HighResScreenShot_2017-11-11_17-56-39.jpg


It turned out ok, I'd say - though the entire trip took about a month from start to finish 🙃
 
Mode switching may be a flaw for some - it's a feature for others, i.e. it permits players to play the way they want to, not the way that other players want them to.

I highly doubt that developers intended to be used as a feature. I'd love to hear their take on it though.

The possibility of a switchable transponder to distinguish players from NPCs was discussed at length in the DDF during Alpha back in 2014 and not taken forward.

Don't need a transponder to distinguish players from NPCs. The radar does that already.

Now a transponder that shows my location to a phased out PvP or PvE player is a completely different thing.

See if am(PvE trading) traveling in space and a PvP player spots me on his radar they can do nothing but watch or they can interact with me via chat.

That's my choice because my transponder is on and PvP mode is off. Now I could turn off my transponder and phased out PvP players will disappear off my radar and I disappear off theirs.

I think that could work. It's just an idea of mine.
 
I don't think there's ever been a discussion of this that hasn't been able to mitigate some form of exploit in the system that would lead to just a different way of getting people blown up.

Make PvP ineffective and you allow people to be able to do things like plug you in the docking slot. Remove collisions and you allow players to ghost inside you, shoot at stuff and you take fire once the station shoots back as well.

I can think of only one change that has been made in the history of the game that was designed to reduce ganking and that was the setup of the pilot's federation permit area for new players. You have to take it at this point that anywhere else, it's as intended.

As others have said though- there's nothing wrong with going into solo/PG if you don't want to risk other players disturbing you when you're doing something.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
I highly doubt that developers intended to be used as a feature. I'd love to hear their take on it though.
In a game where other players are an optional extra, it's easy to see why some consider it a feature - and why some who consider that others should be forced to play among them consider it to be an issue.

Quite some time ago Sandro Sammarco, at one time Lead Designer on the game, stated that the ability to mode switch was a means to avoid perceived griefing.

Even if a player does choose to play in Open, some of the time at least, they can choose to leave the game at any time using menu exit (regardless of how anyone else in their instance may feel about it) and can add any player they encounter to their block list.
 
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