Another solution to ganker problem

[Murky Dregs]

Would you expect a buckballer to win against vipers in an Asp Scout? That's how far off the pace you are.

Keep shifting the goalposts. You need to ignore the fact that we're talking about open-only scenarios, many times with competing interests, in order to justify your argument.

An unprotected Cutter will get blown to bits, never making those deliveries, versus a Cutter built to handle real in-game threats.

You've amply demonstrated that you have nil interest in discussing this objectively.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

I don't see what it can possibly have to do with courage. I mean, iCouriers might be able to run away, but why would anyone be afraid of Sir Robin?




Sounds pretty anecdotal. These kind of experiences don't tend to be supported by evidence like a video footage, for some reason. Just give it a try, interdict a friend and compare your recordings. Yes, the minigame is somewhat biased against the interdictee, but still it's possible to evade, as long as you are doing a better job than the player at the other end of the tether.

A while back I did some interdictions training with some other squadron members, and the success rate for the attacker, to our surprise, was only about 70% if I remember correctly. In my forays into PvP piracy I have made things a bit more difficult by using pedals for yaw, but some ships, especially T7s have beaten me on 2 or 3 occasions, possibly because T7s have very good yaw compared to roll.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

Keep shifting the goalposts. You need to ignore the fact that we're talking about open-only scenarios, many times with competing interests, in order to justify your argument.

An unprotected Cutter will get blown to bits, never making those deliveries, versus a Cutter built to handle real in-game threats.

You've amply demonstrated that you have nil interest in discussing this objectively.

Away from the CG system it doesn't happen, Open is identical to solo.
The only point where PVP protection is relevant is a CG which is a competitive environment.
750 tonne ships make those 20,000 tonne deliveries day in, day out, in open.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

Keep shifting the goalposts. You need to ignore the fact that we're talking about open-only scenarios, many times with competing interests, in order to justify your argument.

An unprotected Cutter will get blown to bits, never making those deliveries, versus a Cutter built to handle real in-game threats.

You've amply demonstrated that you have nil interest in discussing this objectively.

I would place a lot of the responsibility for these frequent debates about engineering squarely with fdev: they should have made it so that a great pilot in a non engineered ship had a chance against a bad pilot in the same ship but engineered. As it stands a fully engineered cutter with at least 600t cargo space is virtually ungankable, while a stock cutter is cannon fodder. Even my shieldless but tanky T9 rarely gets destroyed.

 

[galahad2069]

How comes then that our gankers can actually fly minmaxed boats? Designed not to do actually anything but kill.

If your standard for a minmaxed cargo Cutter is a shieldless paperplane that can carry 750 something tons, then by the same standard gankers cannot and don't fly minmaxed combat ships. That would be a ringfighter FDL with c1 fuel tank, 2D FSD with SCBs and HRPs in every single optional slot.

Gankers' ships, on the other hand, need to be able to jump so they need to carry the dead weight of extra fuel and a heavy FSD, which will make them slower. They also need an interdictor if they want to catch you, which means weaker than minmaxed hull. If they want to follow your high wake, they'll need a wake scanner as well which means one less skill booster (weaker than minmaxed shields in other words). If they want to be able to kill ships that have strong shields, they'll need to sacrifice one hardpoint for a Grom missile launcher (which is a pretty crappy weapon otherwise). Pirates need other modules as well, such as a cargo rack, a manifest scanner or a hatch breaker limpet controller.

All the above make pirate and ganker ships worse than minmaxed combat builds.

 

[Ozric]

Remember to discuss the post and not the poster, let's do without the personal slurs please.

Just on a side note there are quite a few Buckyballers who could easily beat a Viper in an Asp Scout. Pure speed doesn't equate to being faster in a race.

 

[Murky Dregs]

The only point where PVP protection is relevant is a CG which is a competitive environment.

The title of the thread:

"Another solution to ganker problem"​

 

[Old Duck]

How comes then that our gankers can actually fly minmaxed boats? Designed not to do actually anything but kill.

I did most my ganking in a shieldless Dolphin. Just sayin.

 

[Darrack]

Imagine if blockade running was a thing in this game... and you actually had to be good at it in order to realize delivery. That would be fun.

nah it wouldn't, luckily we don't have to do PvP

O7

 

[TiberiusDuval]

If your standard for a minmaxed cargo Cutter is a shieldless paperplane that can carry 750 something tons, then by the same standard gankers cannot and don't fly minmaxed combat ships. That would be a ringfighter FDL with c1 fuel tank, 2D FSD with SCBs and HRPs in every single optional slot.

Gankers' ships, on the other hand, need to be able to jump so they need to carry the dead weight of extra fuel and a heavy FSD, which will make them slower. They also need an interdictor if they want to catch you, which means weaker than minmaxed hull. If they want to follow your high wake, they'll need a wake scanner as well which means one less skill booster (weaker than minmaxed shields in other words). If they want to be able to kill ships that have strong shields, they'll need to sacrifice one hardpoint for a Grom missile launcher (which is a pretty crappy weapon otherwise). Pirates need other modules as well, such as a cargo rack, a manifest scanner or a hatch breaker limpet controller.

All the above make pirate and ganker ships worse than minmaxed combat builds.

Tradeship can be very very basic.
Okay you cannot get theoretical damage output and damage resistance maximum out of gankship, because need of certain tools for doing that job. But it is still minmaxed one purpose ship.
Your example is like saying simply minmaxed for jump range jump-a-conda is exloration ship. It is not, cannot do certain tasks, does not have endurance for a long trip. Proper exploration ship has at least AFMU, big fuel tank, big fuel scoop, srv hangar, and so on. All eating raw jump capability.

 

[Murky Dregs]

nah it wouldn't, luckily we don't have to do PvP

O7

Yeah, you're right. Engineering and actually having a modicum of piloting skill sure wouldn't be entertaining in a space flight game.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Yeah, you're right. Engineering and actually having a modicum of piloting skill sure wouldn't be entertaining in a space flight game.

Being in possession of either of those does not mean that one is inclined to engage, or be engaged, in PvP.

 

[galahad2069]

Tradeship can be very very basic.
Okay you cannot get theoretical damage output and damage resistance maximum out of gankship, because need of certain tools for doing that job. But it is still minmaxed one purpose ship.

So is an Open-compatible trade ship.

Your example is like saying simply minmaxed for jump range jump-a-conda is exloration ship. It is not, cannot do certain tasks, does not have endurance for a long trip. Proper exploration ship has at least AFMU, big fuel tank, big fuel scoop, srv hangar, and so on. All eating raw jump capability.

It was your example, not mine:

And does not carry what Cutter can carry at max.

My point was that contrary to your statement, a typical ganker ship is NOT a minmaxed combat ship, the same way as a well shielded trade ship is not a minmaxed cargo ship.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

The title of the thread:

"Another solution to ganker problem"​

The only places that applies are Shinrarta, SanTu, Deciat, and the CG system.
Who hauls to Shinrarta, SanTu or Deciat?
The CG system is the only place in the Galaxy where this is relevant.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

So is an Open-compatible trade ship.

It was your example, not mine:


My point was that contrary to your statement, a typical ganker ship is NOT a minmaxed combat ship, the same way as a well shielded trade ship is not a minmaxed cargo ship.

Simple difference, one can actually trade with pure minmaxed tradeship. And depending on piloting skills in most places quite safely. Most risk comes from NPC's even in Open.
Combat ship without various bells and whistles makes pretty poor gank platform. It needs at least interdictor.

 

[galahad2069]

Simple difference, one can actually trade with pure minmaxed tradeship. And depending on piloting skills in most places quite safely. Most risk comes from NPC's even in Open.
Combat ship without various bells and whistles makes pretty poor gank platform. It needs at least interdictor.

You can trade with a minmaxed paper cargo ship in Open, it's just a bit less convenient if you get attacked. And you can gank in a ringfighter ship, it's just a tad less convenient without an interdictor.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

You can trade with a minmaxed paper cargo ship in Open, it's just a bit less convenient if you get attacked. And you can gank in a ringfighter ship, it's just a tad less convenient without an interdictor.

Well, camping at engineering base of course is possible.

 

[Old Duck]

Yeah, you're right. Engineering and actually having a modicum of piloting skill sure wouldn't be entertaining in a space flight game.

I have engineering and a modicum of piloting skill, but PvP as a trader sucks, period. At least when it comes to dealing with gankers; I enjoy proper role-playing PvP pirates.

And I find it amusing that gankers brag about "piloting skill" when most of them fly G5 FDLs or the equivalent "easy mode" ships. Yawn... Gank me in something unique like a DBX or Asp Explorer, and then I'll be impressed (which has happened on very rare occasion, and those CMDRs did display actual piloting skill).

 

[Screemonster]

I have engineering and a modicum of piloting skill, but PvP as a trader sucks, period. At least when it comes to dealing with gankers; I enjoy proper role-playing PvP pirates.

And I find it amusing that gankers brag about "piloting skill" when most of them fly G5 FDLs or the equivalent "easy mode" ships. Yawn... Gank me in something unique like a DBX or Asp Explorer, and then I'll be impressed (which has happened on very rare occasion, and those CMDRs did display actual piloting skill).

why do you think I pirate in a T7

(For serious though, when I used my pve-piracy challenger for the job, miners that I saw in the ring would boost out and high-wake the instant they resolved me as a contact and went "oh hell that's a challenger" - in the T7 they ignored me until I was basically on top of them and they got "SCAN DETECTED")

 

[TiberiusDuval]

I have engineering and a modicum of piloting skill, but PvP as a trader sucks, period. At least when it comes to dealing with gankers; I enjoy proper role-playing PvP pirates.

And I find it amusing that gankers brag about "piloting skill" when most of them fly G5 FDLs or the equivalent "easy mode" ships. Yawn... Gank me in something unique like a DBX or Asp Explorer, and then I'll be impressed (which has happened on very rare occasion, and those CMDRs did display actual piloting skill).

I was once ganked by Asp X pilot. Boy that guy flew nicely, never got that one stay in my sights. That was actually kind of fun and lets say different experience than run of mill gank.