Another whinge about mat gathering

Yes. Because it's true.

I once read a news item about prisoners in a Chinese jail who were kept awake all night by the guards and forced to play WoW so that the guards could make a profit from the credits they gained. Those guys could justifiably complain about "grind". You and I only play ED because we want to. I take responsibility for my own actions, do you?
I'll skip the ridiculous analogy.

Yes, I do take responsibility for my own actions.

But I assume "guess I'll do something else with my time" is not the answer Frontier is going for and that's why we are here discussing how to improve certain aspects of the game.

Well, I guess some are just here to tell others "Don't like it? Get lost!"
It isn't inherently boring fake newts, you just don't enjoy it because of some aspect of the way you go about achieving your in-game goals.

If you don't enjoy something, try approaching it in a different way. My end goal is not to get G5 ships, engineered ships just make it easier for me to achieve my goal (carry more cargo safely, jump further, end wars sooner etc).

What are your goals?
It isn't inherently boring fake newts, you just don't enjoy it because of some aspect of the way you go about achieving your in-game goals.

If you don't enjoy something, try approaching it in a different way. My end goal is not to get G5 ships, engineered ships just make it easier for me to achieve my goal (carry more cargo safely, jump further, end wars sooner etc).

What are your goals?
My end goal was to participate in challenging PvP and PvE combat and continue to engage with my favourite aspect of the game, which is the FA-off flight model. I have achieved this by engaging with Frontier's progression mechanics since pre-2.1, as I stated in a previous post. I have the luxury of a lot of free time and ample support from an experienced player group. To be absolutely clear - I am not the OP and I am not looking for help to play the game, believe me, I know how to play the game.

So what are the problems?

Many people, myself included, don't think it's desirable that Elite's progression mechanics don't involve any risk:reward ratio, and that engineering specifically gates combat-centric modules and upgrades behind hundreds of hours of non-combat, low-input, risk-free activities. Again, I perfectly understand that some people in Elite want to just float around in space and salvage things from USS - that's fine and dandy, it's an atmospheric game and there's room for low-key activities. I begrudge no-one their space sandbox. Why these activities are required to further a career in combat, however, is another story.

That's issue one. The disconnect between chosen career and necessary activity for advancement. (Edit: The precedent for this particular complaint was set pre-2.1, and with the 'blaze your own...' tagline. Pre 2.1 Elite certainly had its issues, but it was possible for players to gravitate to a specific career and to a large extent remain there. 2.1 was a rude awakening for many players due to its prescriptive nature.)

Issue two is Frontier's constant choice to encourage repetitious, skill-less play, by how they stack the numbers on top of their barebones mechanics. You can choose not to do it, or choose to not do it in a single sitting (which you have to for sanity's sake), but let's take for example the guardian sites. How many times an individual player can rehash the guardian blueprint 'mini-game' before it gets boring is up for debate, but the fact is Frontier has made mindless, riskless repetition obligatory in order to get even a single module... and that's to say nothing of their proposed synthesis-based guns.

Back to engineering, if I want to G5 a module I need 10 rolls of the final grade to safely reach the maximum, which means what, 200 - 300 Grade 5 rolls per ship? Not including grades 1 thru 4. Again, you don't have to max the ship out, but what player profile is going to enjoy collecting that many things from a static, risk-less HGE in parallel to their usual game activities? I'm sure there are people who do enjoy it, but the numbers involved, purely from a design perspective, smell strongly of gating achieved by artificial prolongation of non-mechanics. This isn't content in any meaningful sense of the word.

Edit: it shouldn't even be surprising to anyone, as Frontier themselves have reined in the numberwang as a result of widespread player discontentment. Do you remember how many blueprints were needed when guardian sites initially dropped? Do you remember when engineering materials dropped 1 unit only and there were no traders? Do you remember when HGEs weren't scannable with the FSS and you literally had to sit and stare at nothing and wait? I 'member.

If you can defend these mechanics and say there's zero responsibility for the mass discontentment on Fdev's side... or that subsequent reworks were unnecessary tweaking in what is and was a perfect game, I will happily listen to your arguments.
If I'm told again that "hey mang, it's just cuz, like, you ain't playin' it like me, lol, just go play Mario Kart" I might pop a blood vessel though, so please be careful if you start typing that...
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Are you writing a thesis on missing the point?
Sorry, I was replying to zimms a few posts back who said I'd made a ridiculous analogy. (It wasn't an analogy at all, it was an ostensibly factual news item). A quote would have helped I guess.
Fair enough then.

However if you're suggesting that HGE mechanics aren't a problem because material traders exist I have to say that cuts a delicious slice of irony with your previous post implying that criticism of the game was foolish and people should just like it or lump it... because material traders, among many other changes and gate reductions, were added in no small part due to sustained feedback and complaints from the community.
In that case you should file a bug report in addition to complaining on the forums. The quicker it gets fixed, the better. (Disclaimer: yes, I do realise there are a lot of bugs not being fixed and this one may be one of them even if you log it. Criticising that part is 100% justified IMO! I also wish FDEV were better at fixing bugs, alas...).

I can tell you how I get my mats. I do it via organic gameplay - just by doing whatever I'm doing in game. And when I want to engineer a ship, I use what I have and then go out and about and get involved in various aspects of the game - missions, passenger transport, geo- and biological sites prospecting, installation comm arrays hacking, planetary bases hacking, Conflict Zones, USS salvaging and so on. When I'm bored with all that stuff, I go to Mat Trader and exchange materials to get what I need, then go and engineer the ship further, and then go back to just playing the game as above.

There are many ways of playing Elite and I'm not saying my way is the only way or the right way (it's just my way, nothing more, nothing less) - but I can tell you that it's definitely not a boring way, because you get to do a lot of varied activities. Therefore it doesn't feel like a grind at all. If you keep repeating same thing over and over it's a given you will get bored with it after a while. And If you keep doing it despite hating it and then complain about the grind... Well, I have no sympathy for you whatsoever, because you're the only one to blame here. Not the game.

Sure, there are grindy parts in Elite for sure, but materials hunting is not one of them, if you do it the way I described above. You can definitely turn it into a grind, but - again - that's your own doing.

In addition - yes, this game is a lot of different things to different people, which makes a lot of it very subjective - however one thing is 100% by design, and that's slow progress. It's just been made that way. I actually think it's a good thing - but I appreciate a lot of the people will disagree. Want a fully engineered uber-ship for yesterday? Sorry, you chose a wrong game to play.
Are you suggesting that the in-game descriptions of mat locations are now as valid as they were before the last patch?

I don't think that is supported by the evidence.
It all of your faults. Zarek Null will install currency->mat traders at every starport, if only the Galaxy would submit to his lawful rule. Sigh :-(

More seriously, yeah +1 another whinger here about stupid mats, one of a few reasons I'm pretty much on hiatus from the game
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