Anti-Aliasing does not function

[Emil Garrak]

Hello Commanders!

I just want express my experience with the AA settings.

I have a decent rig with an nvidia GTX 770 OC 4GB RAM and i am playing using dsr 2.25x (2880x 1620 ) plus SMAA
and the i. e. the yellowlines in supercruise or in stations there are a lot of edges that "flicker" .

I made screenshots and for my surprise they look awesome.

BUT the AA problems occur when moving ! I don't know if there are alpha textures that aren't smoothed through this AA ,
or is it a shader that is causing this?

I tried more DSR and with 4x DSR ( 3840x 2160) it is way better but no longer playable , logically limitations by my Rig.

I know i. e. MSAA or SGSSAA won't work with dx 11 games, so i can't use transparency supersampling, it would be amazing to see some TXAA
because it is great for alpha textures, one experience from games like Black Flag / Watch Dogs..

By the way in my 3d settings nvidia profile for elite ( the newest driver..best experience for elite .. blabla) that is saying FXAA not supported for this application , of course ingame it works but not well.

Hopefully the engine get more improved and makes this game (or better saying this experience even more amazing) i love this simulation- approach of this game


Big Up fellow Commanders have a save flight!

 

[MACMAN86]

NVIDIA uses new driver with specific setting for Elite using down-scaling 2715x1527 (to 1980x1280 for me) and this is to do better than Anti-Aliasing only their reccomended settings do not disable AA. Upon using it the SMAA caused flickering and crashed. Other settings work but with stutter and so now I do not need AA on at all.
Here's how it works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqi0114mwtY
Other settings I chose were Hardware Cursor OFF and Fix refresh rate to 60 and V-Sync OFF.

 

[Maiakaat]

I am pointing out that implementing AA might not be that trivial as some of Forum members have suggested.

The thing is when implementing shaders (especially procedural shaders) AA implications need to be understood prior to implementation, its a precursor topic, I am a developer, and the first place to look would be the shaders used for the station. Beyond this it gets more difficult to pin down issues.

I'm amazed Frontier have pulled this off, I would have expected it to be a challenge for most hardware currently available, but at the same time there are hints as to implementation details, and some architectural decisions may have been rushed early on (looking in from the outside) and this may be impacting things now and making problems more difficult to iron out. If the AA issue is something that is the cost of getting a game working on current hardware, then I think people would understand, the stations have a massive impact on runtime performance, and adding more sampling resolution would clearly push the game beyond the current low end recommendations if this is the required solution.

Hopefully Frontier will be looking into it though in the new year.

I have an AMD card, and my options are even more limited in effectiveness than those using NVIDIA, which seems to be the dominant hardware out there for this game, and I don't blame Frontier for the poor performance of AMD's intermediate solution, though I am struggling to understand why it seems to work, and then not work, again it could be an AMD issue.

I'm deciding on a new card when AMD release their offering, so personally I don't care too much, I just think you could handle support issues raised with a bit more customer care, ie explaining the development team are away currently and you will update peoples requests after liasing with them when you get back for example, rather than trying frantically to prove AA is working, and by implication, that there is no possible issue to be looked at - you might find that people are more receptive and patient.

We all want Elite to be the genre defining game of the next 10 years it can be.

 

[hapklaar]

I would also like to link to this thread, especially kyoseki's comment which talks in detail about the crawling/shimmering lines which bother me the most in ED. It's so incredibly obvious with a Rift when the image is up-close and moves in all directions. I certainly hope FD will be able to solve this in future patches.

 

[Emil Garrak]

Hello Commanders!

I just want express my experience with the AA settings.

I have a decent rig with an nvidia GTX 770 OC 4GB RAM and i am playing using dsr 2.25x (2880x 1620 ) plus SMAA
and the i. e. the yellowlines in supercruise or in stations there are a lot of edges that "flicker" .

I made screenshots and for my surprise they look awesome.

BUT the AA problems occur when moving ! I don't know if there are alpha textures that aren't smoothed through this AA ,
or is it a shader that is causing this?

I tried more DSR and with 4x DSR ( 3840x 2160) it is way better but no longer playable , logically limitations by my Rig.

I know i. e. MSAA or SGSSAA won't work with dx 11 games, so i can't use transparency supersampling, it would be amazing to see some TXAA
because it is great for alpha textures, one experience from games like Black Flag / Watch Dogs..

By the way in my 3d settings nvidia profile for elite ( the newest driver..best experience for elite .. blabla) that is saying FXAA not supported for this application , of course ingame it works but not well.

Hopefully the engine get more improved and makes this game (or better saying this experience even more amazing) i love this simulation- approach of this game


Big Up fellow Commanders have a save flight!

Greetingz Commanders!

I just have to update my former posted experience..

After looking deeper again into my driver settings, I've realized that my " DSR- Smothness- Factor" had been lowered by myself earlier to 10%.

(because i'd read an article about DSR where a lesser smoothness values have been suggested than the standard 33% for less bluring).

At the end, really simple! It was a bit too much. I've altered this factor to 21% and that solved more or less all my little complains .



And to all AMD graphic enthusiasts, the new omega driver announced a VSR option , something similar to Nvidia's DSR. Perhaps it already has been
released.?


Over and out

 

[hapklaar]

Greetingz Commanders!

I just have to update my former posted experience..

After looking deeper again into my driver settings, I've realized that my " DSR- Smothness- Factor" had been lowered by myself earlier to 10%.

(because i'd read an article about DSR where a lesser smoothness values have been suggested than the standard 33% for less bluring).

At the end, really simple! It was a bit too much. I've altered this factor to 21% and that solved more or less all my little complains .



And to all AMD graphic enthusiasts, the new omega driver announced a VSR option , something similar to Nvidia's DSR. Perhaps it already has been
released.?


Over and out

I have an i7-4770K@4,5GHz with GTX970 (OC'ed to the max). DSR 1,2x with 33% smoothness is as far as I can go if I want to keep 75 fps in the Rift.. Anything higher results in bad judder/stutter etc. because of GPU overload.

Again, DSR is a possible workaround for some, but not a solution to the problem.

 

[AstroCat]

Agreed. I have an i7-2600k@4.2Ghz with a GTX980SC and SMAA + DSR helps but it is not perfect and a work around. The stations still crawl and have some jaggies but not near as bad as without DSR. AA at native resolution 1920x1080 (for me) look pretty bad with just using SMAA.

 

[jamesmay]

The difference is clearly visible:

AA OFF:

Spoiler

FXAA:

Spoiler

MLAAX2:

Spoiler

MLAAX4:

Spoiler

SMAA:

Spoiler

Please stop.
These are static images, ofcourse no Aliasing will be visible. in them.
FXAA, SMAA are both just temporal solutions, only really work when you're static.
Whenever you move, you get the stairsteps on literally everything.

Not to mention FXAA is horribly blurry.

Even on my 4K PB287Q there is Aliasing with SMAA/FXAA, FXAA Is the worst as it blurs the entire screen, and you lose detail in textures.

 

[Aleksej]

No AA vs AA is clearly visible on these screenshots. Just look at the white lighting under the bridge where the truck is moving. Is it perfect? No. Does it work? Yes.

I think that is how FXAA works, i.e. it blurs the image.

 

[jamesmay]

No AA vs AA is clearly visible on these screenshots. Just look at the white lighting under the bridge where the truck is moving. Is it perfect? No. Does it work? Yes.

I think that is how FXAA works, i.e. it blurs the image.

You certainly dont know how PPAA works at all.
On a static IMAGE, it looks improved.
But in MOTION it looks horrid.

Make a 30fps gif and you'll know what Im saying.

Best consistent AA is: MSAA, or Supersampling. And always will be.
Why developers insist on not implementing this is beyond me, its like: Hey console games look good too!

 

[Aleksej]

I clearly see the difference both in static and in motion. Again - I am not saying that it is perfect. I am saying that it works. And FD are working on improving it.

 

[Stardog765]

Jamesmay the reason they dont take the time to add in real AA is because either the engine they are using wont do it, as in Unity or like so many devs now a days they are developing to the lowest common denominator, console gamers.
Console gaming has just about ruined PC gaming. Alot of devs develop to the console then just port it over to the PC and console kiddies sitting 6' from their screen will never see a need for AA unlike those of us in the PC Master Race get screwed because get stuck with console acceptable graphics.

Its truly sad.

 

[MACMAN86]

I repeat what I already said: -
"NVIDIA uses new driver with specific setting for Elite using down-scaling 2715x1527 (to 1980x1280 for me) and this is to do better than Anti-Aliasing only their reccomended settings do not disable AA. Upon using it the SMAA caused flickering and crashed. Other settings work but with stutter and so now I do not need AA on at all.
Here's how it works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqi0114mwtY
Other settings I chose were Hardware Cursor OFF and Fix refresh rate to 60 and V-Sync OFF."
Update your drivers if you have NVIDIA. Perhaps AMD will do one soon.

 

[Stardog765]

it also does not get rid of the flickering/shimmering textures Mac.
We all know DSR works like AA but it also doesnt fix the issue.

 

[MACMAN86]

Tried a fixed frame rate which = your monitor?
I 've no issues using GTX970 latest Elite spec driver with MLAA4,MLAA2,FXAA,but choose OFF to further rid stutter.
Perhaps they don't give you down scaling for your resolution? Mine is down scaled 2715x1527 to 1980x1280

 

[jamesmay]

Jamesmay the reason they dont take the time to add in real AA is because either the engine they are using wont do it, as in Unity or like so many devs now a days they are developing to the lowest common denominator, console gamers.
Console gaming has just about ruined PC gaming. Alot of devs develop to the console then just port it over to the PC and console kiddies sitting 6' from their screen will never see a need for AA unlike those of us in the PC Master Race get screwed because get stuck with console acceptable graphics.

Its truly sad.

No such thing as "Engine wont do it"

DICE claimed that Frostbite wouldnt do MSAA.
Yet they implemented it... and it works fine.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Tried a fixed frame rate which = your monitor?
I 've no issues using GTX970 latest Elite spec driver with MLAA4,MLAA2,FXAA,but choose OFF to further rid stutter.
Perhaps they don't give you down scaling for your resolution? Mine is down scaled 2715x1527 to 1980x1280

CMAA, FXAA, MLAA, SMAA does not impact framerate.
Just as Anisotropic Filtering has never had impact on framerate post 2001.

 

[Stardog765]

Not every engine is the Frostbite engine though.
This engine might require a complete rewrite to go back and add something like SSAA or MSAA. I dont know but if that is the case it is the same thing as wont allow it because it wont happen.

I have not heard the devs comment on that yet.

I also dont know what is causing the flickering/shimmering textures when the scene moves. AA might not help at all but you would think if any AA would SSAA would.

Not a software engineer so I really dont know, I just hope it gets fixed because it takes away from this beautiful game.

 

[cosloli]

Looking forward to a better anti-aliasing quality[PLESE!!!]

the aa quality now is not very satisfying ... in fact it's horrible now, I've tried to improve the setting in Nvidia Control Panel but it doesn't work at all...
So please, FD... let's make a better AA quality, it's really important for us.

 

[Morbad]

More AA options would be appreciated.

In the meantime, try using DSR or VSR if you have a recent GPU.

 

[cosloli]

my GPU is GTX670, how to us DSR/VSR ?