Anti-Botting Agreement

[KKomrade Sylas]

Finally we are getting to the truth, again my thanks for your honesty. All this boils down to one simple fact, the BGS BOT outputs detailed instructions to anyone who uses it and all you need do is follow the instructions, the spreadsheet that feeds the BOT is in turn fed by only a tiny group of people. The vast majority of users need do nothing except digest the BGS BOT's instructions and execute them. We hope you will reconsider your use of this BOT or consider sharing it.

And now to the crux of the argument. This entire campaign is built upon the venomous foundations of a vendetta driven crusade by one faction against another faction. This quest has achieved just one thing, to vaguely heighten frontier's awareness of the use of automation, and that unfortunately is all it will ever achieve. It has no power and no future. Furthermore it has done more damage than good by fear mongering and artificially exaggerating the perceived use of automation in game. How many players have been put off by all this negative publicity, how many players have given up their BGS gameplay thinking that all their work is fruitless. End this now, and don't poison the image of a game we all love so dearly...

Myself and my faction hereby withdraw from this agreement and we urge all members to disavow this ill conceived campaign, end this now, and let Frontier deal with this in whatever flawed way they can. When the first accusation comes, the first faction censured, the first freedom denied, this will chain us all irrevocably. There can be no justice as long as laws are absolute. Botting is a shameful act but not as shameful as false accusations of botting.

A wise man once said 'The road from legitimate suspicion to rampant paranoia is much shorter than we think.'

Let us all ponder this as we all blaze our own trail out there in the deep dark void...

​

You are both complaining about false accusations that haven't happened, and accusing a group of automation in the same message. I don't think that's how it works, Mysti.

 

[Riverside]

read back up

Your post cites no quote. Seems to me it was directed at me, which would be badgering Jane, as you know.

 

[Jane Turner]

It's directly under a post I replied to, where there poster saying that they were leaving the A-BA. Since that post was already a bit verbose I chose not to cite it. If you would like me to add, I am definitely not referring to Riverside for clarity I am obviously happy to. I also wasn't aware that you had a long track record of threatening all your neighbours with destruction - like the poster I was replying to

 

[Mysteron]

You are both complaining about false accusations that haven't happened, and accusing a group of automation in the same message. I don't think that's how it works, Mysti.

We have encountered a certain faction that I will not name who has spent years trying to poison our reputation. However we are pleased with all this attention as our membership has been expanding exponentially since all this began and our list of allies grows by the day. Let us fight this war in game not here...

 

[Vetinari]

Ive spoken to a couple of people and their Squads use some kind of spreadsheet for BGS, so it seems to be common, didnt know to ask if they were 'Trusted Partners' but Id guess not, they are all XB small squads that just do their own thing.

Theres also a BGS Spreadsheet script or program on the forums publicly available, so anyone can use it and modify it, and even though the creator said they would just leave it there they have actively tried to help people in using or modifying it.

If all it is is a glorified calculator to save time sitting down with pen and paper and working out the equation I dont think its a Bot.

if I have to be in game and actively playing to affect the BGS then its not a Bot. If I dont have to be in game and actively playing to affect the BGS then it is a Bot.

Obviously it provides advantages as saves time working out the maths but at least this way small groups can use it too and be as efficient as large groups with lots of players doing the maths.

Frontier draw the line at in game automated playing (botting) and dont have an issue with players using 3rd party tools to get info. Frontier decide what info is available for the player to use.

I only use Inara sometimes at Trade CGs to find selling station, last time I didnt need to as Agri everywhere round Sirius. But it is a sandbox and other people use 3rd party tools all day long. Up to them how they play their game and doesnt matter if to me its more like 'work'. You play your game and Ill play mine and someone else will play theirs and so on.

Either way I would imagine Frontier are more aware of player feeling on the issue of botting and cheating, but I still believe they are more 'on top' of it than we would ever guess. Up to them if they decide to give more info to the players to help with spotting cheaters.

 

[Riverside]

It's directly under a post I replied to, where there poster saying that they were leaving the A-BA. Since that post was already a bit verbose I chose not to cite it. If you would like me to add, I am definitely not referring to Riverside for clarity I am obviously happy to. I also wasn't aware that you had a long track record of threatening all your neighbours with destruction - like the poster I was replying to

Jane, you are posting without quoting posters you are replying to. I appreciate the clarification, and that you may feel your playstyle is under attack, probably much as the individual who was apparently already punished for botting & continues to be harassed does. We don't have their side of the story, only assumptions.

Please bear in mind there is no one 'truth', only perceptions from different points of view. Everything is simple until it is examined more carefully, then everything is nuanced

Fortunately in this game there is nothing at stake other than a bit of pride, so gathering hundreds of player groups against an individual who has apparently already been punished is probably a grossly excessive over-reaction to the crime and FDev's punishment may be the reasonable, proportionate response. FDev has access to more info on this than any of the community after all

 

[Northpin]

Hi there,

It seems you are referring to my creation, Enosis.

Enosis is a computer program running on a remote server that connects to Google spreadsheets in order to digest information input by human users into a more manageable format. The target for every system is defined by a human.

A simple algorithm is run to calculate approximately how much of whatever would have to be put into the system in order to reach that target, and this is displayed on Discord.

It could not function for a single day without constant human supervision and management.

The "trivia" about systems, such as stations and economies and markets, is accessed through the Elite: Dangerous Data Network, which in turn obtains its data through programs such as Elite Dangerous Market Connector.

There is also a plugin for EDMC available that sends your journal file to the server for analysis, not dissimilar to how Elite: Dangerous Data Network operates, but it is proprietary.

The journal file is an assortment of data about various events you have been involved with in the game, such as jumping to another system, or docking at a station. This is intended by Frontier Developments. If they wanted to disable it to stop people from scaping such data, they certainly could do that.

I hope this puts any FUD being spread about the matter to its final rest.

Regards,
Tamara Bunke

In the beginning, there was the sheet. And the players would ask the curator of the sheet what should they do, and the curator the sheet would say, look at the sheet for it contains all ths information you need to define your own priorities. For the sheet is the word. It both defines targets and measures progress towards them. But the console players did not like this answer for they found to 5000 cells of the sheet bothersome to read and write with a controller in one hand and a phone in the other, so a wise and resourceful person created a programme which did both the reading and writing of the sheet through an interface they called discord. And so the console player were happy.

The curator of the sheet was also joyous because no longer did the sheet have to be designed so the players could understand its ways or read its contents when flying. The sheet evolved as the 7 disciples of the sheet added new and wondrous things to it. So Endeth the 1st lesson

Yea, but the Creation is turning any noob into a super effective bgs expert.
And the bgs game is not about who is better at bgs, is about who has access to the Creation and can benefit from its expertise.
Then the Creation allows people to manipulate not only the bgs, but the other factions that are being persuaded to join their cause so they can benefit from the bgs directions being spoon-fed to them by the Creation and in turn they can roll over their common enemies with maximum efficiency.

So, yea, it's not about bots, but about drones.
No wonder you guys control more than 1000 systems, good luck on the path to control 10000 systems.

And one last thing, it seems that FD do not care about the tools used by the players, as long the said tools dont provide an advantage over the rest of the player base

 

[Just Paul]

Yea, but the Creation is turning any noob into a super effective bgs expert.

Or they think they are until they come against a group that has a better understanding of how the bgs works. And then we have botting allegations because the spreadsheet can't be wrong.

 

[KKomrade Sylas]

Or they think they are until they come against a group that has a better understanding of how the bgs works. And then we have botting allegations because the spreadsheet can't be wrong.

I think the evidence is in videos and not spreadsheets but ok

 

[Just Paul]

I think the evidence is in videos and not spreadsheets but ok

Are there more videos than the ones from a few years ago? That ones look like a simple VA script my 6yr old could get done, no coding required. Would be even more easy nowadays with the SCA and ADC. It does look like some cheat tool was used though. I'm looking for recent stuff that caused all this hysteria.

If you followed the conversion you would not quote me out of context. If bgs newbies use the spreadsheets and the BOT to build a small empire without doing the required git gud and then get beaten by people who have more knowledge on how the bgs works (and there are quite a few around) they will blame bots. The spreadsheet and BOT were never wrong before so how can they be now? If already more established bgs factions blame bots for legit work done by CMDRs (we have an example right here in this or the other related threads) how can a newb understand that the spreadsheets and BOT are not the gospel especially if they work against 95%[1] of the opponents out there. Or are you saying you and CI are newbies? I hope not.

[1] not a verified number so don't quote me on that, but I assume it's not far off.

 

[UberMeg]

Yes it would. How would your group cope using only the info in the game? Probably pretty well, but not as well as you're doing now I'd imagine

Try it. Walk a mile in my shoes. You'll make mistakes & miss stuff, that's where the fun happens

Are we also going to ban Inara, Edsm and Eddb? The in game tools don't compare. Everybody uses them and what are they other than some fancy spreadsheet.

I honestly don't know how the botting stuff works or what it actually is if I'm honest. But if where talking spreadsheets of systems we want to expand to, then I'm in trouble.

Where's the door....

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

So, the great communist oracle is nothing but a glorified calculator.
Banana is disappointed.
It seems a bit like bringing a calculator into your 11+ exams...that would have been considered a bad thing back in the day.
So, how long has this been a thing?.

 

[Tamara Bunke]

So, the great communist oracle is nothing but a glorified calculator.
Banana is disappointed.
It seems a bit like bringing a calculator into your 11+ exams...that would have been considered a bad thing back in the day.
So, how long has this been a thing?.

Hi there,

Thanks for your feedback. Enosis's prediction engine will be improved in the future.

I originally started developing Enosis in 2019, as a program for reading spreadsheets on your phone.

Regards,
Tamara Bunke

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

Hi there,

Thanks for your feedback. Enosis's prediction engine will be improved in the future.

I originally started developing Enosis in 2019, as a program for reading spreadsheets on your phone.

Regards,
Tamara Bunke

Was there a similar system in use before you created your version?

 

[Tamara Bunke]

Was there a similar system in use before you created your version?

Hi there,

No. We used Google spreadsheets with a regular web browser.

Regards,
Tamara Bunke

 

[Mysteron]

With the biggest ever update of Elite Dangerous approaching, it really is a shame that this anti-botting crusade has been advertised all over various magazines and YouTube channels giving the impressions that the game is saturated with automation. We want new people to flock to the game, to play the game, to invest in the game so that Frontier will continue developing it. Instead they see these fear mongering articles flying around. Why wasn´t this grievance addressed years ago, why now?

Unfortunately the existence of this entire thread is based on a bitter years long vendetta between two warring factions, one of whom is way out of control and is really taking things to far. End this now. End this now and let Frontier deal with it in whatever way they can. Nothing but malice can come from this ill conceived crusade. This campaign has damaged the game and when the game is damaged, we are all damaged.

The worst thing is that this toothless and futile crusade will achieve little and has already been forgotten. Unfortunately all the bad press it generated has not.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

Hi there,

No. We used Google spreadsheets with a regular web browser.

Regards,
Tamara Bunke

 

[Jane Turner]

Just for the record - the more coordinated discussion between the "victims" of the A-BA started 19 months ago. Not everything is about you. This is where we warned each other about where they were and how we might locate them

With the biggest ever update of Elite Dangerous approaching, it really is a shame that this anti-botting crusade has been advertised all over various magazines and YouTube channels giving the impressions that the game is saturated with automation. We want new people to flock to the game, to play the game, to invest in the game so that Frontier will continue developing it. Instead they see these fear mongering articles flying around. Why wasn´t this grievance addressed years ago, why now?

Unfortunately the existence of this entire thread is based on a bitter years long vendetta between two warring factions, one of whom is way out of control and is really taking things to far. End this now. End this now and let Frontier deal with it in whatever way they can. Nothing but malice can come from this ill conceived crusade. This campaign has damaged the game and when the game is damaged, we are all damaged.

The worst thing is that this toothless and futile crusade will achieve little and has already been forgotten. Unfortunately all the bad press it generated has not.

 

[Mysteron]

I completely stand by my statement. That this crusade is damaging the reputation of the game unnecessarily.

 

[Jane Turner]

So, the great communist oracle is nothing but a glorified calculator.
Banana is disappointed.
It seems a bit like bringing a calculator into your 11+ exams...that would have been considered a bad thing back in the day.
So, how long has this been a thing?.

The 1st version of the sheet, when we started data collecting, was in Beta.
It started as just a way to spread limited effort, spread across multiple time zones, as efficiently as possible, but with all the data collection we built in rudimentary prediction in the 1st year and improved it ever since.