3D Max user here. Haven't used it in a year but now with TMT, I'm starting to get back into it. I did a number of objects for VR Sansar, then stopped for a period. When you don't use it for a while, you have to RE-learn it. Have been successful so far with TMT single object tests, but simple bone driven animation shoots out errors upon submitting. Has to be something with my grouping.
ah yes. im yet to begin the animation side. Im busy modelling a set of Alien stuff atm. ive also made a "war of the worlds" type machine that im intending on putting into different poses, and maybe to animate too. Ive been informed that Bone animations are a nightmare for TMT though, so im just keeping myself away from animation for now. just makign static stuff and building up a large collection of assets.
this is what im working on atm
Alien "War of the worlds" type set.
High heels (a ladies set)
Water slides set
But im thinking about redoing the water slide stuff. i want to put alot more detail into it.
Ive made that Measurement tool thing myself from scratch. It needs updating now though. I had to go to 7.5 x 7.5 x 7.5 meter scale because to begin with i wasnt able to do 8x8x8 as the TMT would complain that its over by 0.0000******* something. Artix told me its cuz i need a bounding box made in 3dsmax and export it included. So ya, i need to update it but i cba'd right now. hehe.
no idea about the planco peep heights thing. I did mine by making the measuring tool, importing it ingame, and just placing it next to the people, walls paths etc, and simultaniously makign changes in photoshop at the same time, for reference.
The measurement tool includes:
Correct height for adults, teens and children.
Widths for queue paths
Widths upto 7m for normal paths (larger paths exceed the 8x8x8)
Wall heights and width from 1m / 2m and 4m
Also includes Path incline and stairs slope, but has only been done for 3m queue path. (not sure if it changes per path)
ill send you another screeny.
If you want i can always give you it. no idea how though. Im on discord as an option.
Ive also updated the war of the worlds Alien lookalike so its alot more detailed.
Its been divided up into 4 different models, which you will have to put together manually in planet coaster, simply because the entire model exceeds the 8x8x8 limit. The model reeeeaally needs to be alot larger, as the legs dont seem long enough but i have to keep within the 8x8x8 scale.
Im also going to make upto 5 different variant poses with the legs and arms, so ingame you can put together different combinations.
I would love to animate it too, but i dont think its possible. not sure. i will try though, once the poses are done.
Im not sure if animations can go outside the 8x8x8, even if the initial first frame is inside the limit. id like to animate the arms. i dont think i can animate the legs or head because im not sure if you can make objects follow animatronics in planet coaster, from what i remember. to have animated legs, would mean having the head, arms and lazers stuck to the legs in game for them to move with it.
However, in correlation with the walls / floors and ceilings im doign for the alien set, i will be putting this alien in poses that will suit it, like having 1 leg on the ceiling building piece, or kneeling down looking through a Door Arch piece.
It's a shame about the 8x8 limit, but I guess Frontier has their reasons. I was thinking, perhaps splitting the Alien vertically, since his (or her [cool]) structure is narrow. Then just have bones applied to the base section of the legs to let them move a bit, without going out of the boundary (just to give it a bit of life). Although, on its own, even without animation, it would be quite awesome anway. I just started figuring out the bone situation (just a hinged box). In Max, it was perfect, in PlanCo, it arrived at a very odd angle (I hope this isn't a bug). All my static test objects have not had that problem.
Ya the 8x8 limit sucks especially as i want to make stuff that will encase rollercoaster track and their cars eventually. Like going through tunnelling type structure. etc. ive already started work on something like this already. within this alien set, im making an alien worm that you will be able to take a rollercoaster through but also will be modular. i intend on animated the worms mouth so it opens and closes on a trigger too which would be awesome. Think about that blubber queen thing in starship troopers. but alot bigger, and a mouth that opens to consume the roller coaster. maybe on a trigger.
In terms of that Alien machine, ive split the entire model into 4 independant models. and ill just import them in independantly. im not going to animate the legs, but i will rig it, so i can have the legs placed into different poses, like a walking pose, climbing pose, a pose where its arched looking upwards, or a crouching pose as if its looking under something. just so it has a "sense" of movement. the head and lazers will be static scenery, and the player can just place it on top of the legs ingame and arc the lazers how the player wants, perhaps add a lazer light on a trigger perhaps? As for the arms, i do wish to animate them however since you cannot rotate animatronics on all 3 axis, from what im aware, im going to do the same thing with the arms like with the legs, so their angled in different poses defined by the leg poses, and then animate them moving. im thinking of doing a large variety, so the player has a wide variety of choice defined by the angle of the arms on the head, but also having choice over a few animations like a lunge, or a grab or something like that.
frontier hasnt made it easy for me with its limitations but i do wish to get the most out of that 8x8 limit to give a sense of scale. i want the guests to be walking under the legs of these aliens. i think thats cool. But the legs will reach the 8x8 limit, to give it the best scale possible to look big. after all i do want this alien to tower over people, like in waroftheworlds.
Ya i havent tried importing in boned animation yet. im working heavily on this alien set, including wall pieces and stuff. the animation stuff will be the very last thing i do anyway. i want to get a huge set made for this theme. and once the set is finished ill go back into each model and begin animating them. if i dont get drawn into doing other stuff hehe.
thats where im at atm.
general question about the bone animations. do you have to import the bones along with the model and also can you animate a model where it does go outside the 8x8 limit. ie the initial pose is inside the 8x8x8 but the animation can go outside?
also is there a specific limit on the timeline, oand whether you can add multiple different animation sequences?
i remember the devs saying you have make sure the animations loop so its a smooth transition, but can you have multiple different animations, or do you have to import a fresh model with a different animation each?
theres alot of questions regaridng animation, i jsut havent got that far yet lol
I don't have much to go on at the moment, as I've only done one export so far as a quick test, then temporarily went back to static images. I the loaded the simple animation back up but I realized I had saved it only half way through (instead of after export), so I already am RE-confused again. I believe each bone gets exported with its connected group. Oh, and originally, I was grouping the two boxes to create the LODS, but the LOD tool did not like that. I had to group them separately. What helped me was Ms.RedNebula's animation tutorials (she is incredible with the way she explains things). She's using Blender, but it gives you a good idea of how to apply it to 3DMax. When I finish up with a few statics, I'm going to practice more with animation (this is like RCT3 from many moons ago). Here's the video: https://youtu.be/T8_wFiQLpcA
Its incredibly frustrating that theres very little for 3dsmax users, and less so for maya, in regards to our TMT projects.
when there is something, you have to dig to find it here.
Its less so about learning max, as theres plenty of sources out there, but in regards to planet coaster and TMT, theres literally nothing. its all blender.
Could be worth while setting up a discord server and have a place for us to be able to chat for this stuff. would be easier overall.
Im just unsure if its against the rules here to suggest it.
Ya as i said animation is going to be the last thing i tackle, but i dont wish to spend hours upon hours rigging stuff, animating stuff, and only to find out that it doesnt work with TMT, and if it does bypass TMT, its all screwed within the game.
I can easily see myself getting ****** off and not bothering with animation stuff simply because its long winded to rig and animate, and basically being forced to redo it from scratch over and over cuz the TMT and the game doesnt like it.
Im also not the type of person to be doing simple animations either, as i want to be immersed into my game. hehe.
so you think you have to export the bones with the model? do you have to label the bones in anyway?
i dunno. so many questions and i havent got that far yet. hehe.
I did rig up the Alien tripod, but i decided to make changes so i need to re-rig it again.
the most teadious thing im upto atm is texturing the walls. as im working on modular walls, the textures need to corrolate from 1 wall too the next so its seemless. but since its a grid system, and dealing with walls that will fit together both side by side, but also above and below, it makes texturing a nightmare. Especially with far more complicated walls.
Did you try using the uvmap standard box wrap method on walls without using the more advanced unwrap? Yeah, a simple wall or ground and texture can sometimes be a headache.
So I went back and tried to do a simple animation, and I can't believe I am unable to reproduce what I did days ago. It's like, I'm back to square one (or bone one lol). The animation section of the official guide is the weakest part of the doc. Questions like, how are multi-mesh objects with LODS grouped, and do bones need ik solvers for simple, non-skeleton type of animation? Would have been great if they had even a few picture samples from the three, popular modeling programs showing a step by step for simple animation.....plus, the sample objects they provided are not in 3DS Max format (their made for Maya and Blender). We could have at least looked at the rigging layout.
How do you mean by standard box wrap and advanced?
Im just using the standard UVW unwrap, and working within the parameters of the square box.
I could have attached all models together, and apply Channel id's to each module and create a multi/sub-object material and do it that way with the UVW's but it still doesnt solve the annoying factor of trying to create a seemless texture that covers all bases from side to side top and bottom.
Im just doing it by texturing my 4m wall, as a start point, and simply go into photoshop and copy parts of it and mirroring them as i apply it to the other models texture maps, while trying to make it individual. that way the textures are seemless.
Its just annoying theres no easier way of doing it.
Ya. that was another aspect i wasnt sure about. with all 6 LOD's do you have to make bone animations for each? ie to apply skin modifiers for each and weighing all the bones and vertices the same?
that sounds like a real headache.
I cant answer any other those questions as i havent touched on animations yet, but i dont think you should need IK / HI solvers or any restraints to do your animations. you jsut need the bones and the model to export right?
And yes. the guide frontier has given us is actually very poor. us 3dsmax users dont even have a sample to look at where blender and maya does.
reading through the guide there are clearly areas which dont seem to be explained.
In regards to animation. i dont think frontier is expecting us to do animations so they havent made it their priority so much. i even noticed that during the Dev stream, where the animation aspect got rushed through. you cant rush through animation stuff because theres so many factors that go into it. i also found it funny that the examples they used were very simple and didnt offer a range of different kinds of animations, by using different rigging methods.
It just comes down to us rats on a wheel to find out what works and what doesnt by testing it thoroughly i think.
Oh, the way I did it was use the UVMap modifier (not the unwrap). That's mapper that's better for simple objects. I selected "Box Wrap" and it made a clean, wrap around my PlanCo floor tile. Once I do that, I make 4 more instances in Max, so that every side of the main box touches one side of the four (to form a cross. Then, while in UVMap, I tweak with its various settings to resize and move around the texture, as it does the same to the surrounding (instances) boxes, until all sides have an seamless flow.
As for the LODS - I think once you get your animation complete, then you dupe each mesh involved individually. You don't have to make 6 animations, because the original boned animation will move the duplicate LOD meshes.
Ya. the Box wrap works with what you're doing as the model is simply a flat rectangular shape like every wall within planetcoaster. However the walls im making arnt rectangular. although they line up corectly from side to side as a wall does, my walls are organic and a box wrap just doesnt work very well, as i have piping and faces that dont clearly face in their respective directions towards a box wrap.
I simply uvw unwrap, and use the peel buttons to clear all open uvw edges, and begin to slice the models edges by hand before sandwiching them onto the uvw box window, and begin to evenly rescale them equally to get a tight fit within the box, for maximum texturing potential.
So what your saying is that you only have to rig and animation the highest poly LOD (_L0)? and then simply export it like that with the other LOD's and it works fine in game?
you dont have to rig all LODS equally and skin each LOD.
Yeah, forgot you were doing organic -- the simple wraps out of the question lol. OK, figuring out the bones situation - simpler than I thought, but the axis is always off when doing full rotation in PlanCo. I laid down two bones, connected a primitive, skinned bone 2 to primitive, did some simple ground rotation so the object would simply move around clock wise - all while on the Z axis in orthographic mode. After the animation is laid out, you just have to dupe your object for LODS. The copies are treated as one when animating. I used the LOD program in Max utilities. You first have to group everything, then hit the create in the LOD pull down, then export. My problem is, the rotation in game is on a different axis.
Hold up WHAT? theres an LOD Utility option? omg.... lol.
i did not know that.
Ive been welding and target welding each LOD Level down to LOD6 or in planetcoasters case LOD5.
well. i shall be doing some digging regarding that utility, but i know something for sure. i hate all the max optimization tools. their awful. they dont crunch the vertices very well, and acts like the weld button. Its does delete edge loops, and generally speaking doesnt keep the geometry looking good. so in all this time ive doing every LOD in order from highest poly to the lowest.
Im getting there slowly.
Im currently working on my worm animation which i lied about given i was going to wait until all the models are done before starting on them, but boredom and a change of scenery does me good. Its why ill never get a job in the games industry because i have multiple projects on the go. lol. My brain would fry if i stuck with 1 model from start to finish lol
sooo. heres another brain teaser for you.
Can we make Doors? ie door animations, and if so how and do you have to animate the door openning and closing, or just the door openning and planet coaster just runs the animation in reverse for closing?
reason i ask is because im working on my worm animation where its blubber moves back and forth, and the mouth reaches out, closes, and pulls its mouth back, where the blubber reacting like fat.
Now having said this. i could have gone super indepth and added springs for the blubber ribs so it reacts realistically, but ive kept it simple with just bones with controller restraints. Im yet to export a single animation and by the sounds of it planetcoaster doesnt really like animations that much so i just want to keep it simple, even though it really itches that i cant go indepth just incase.
Ill show you my progress on the worm. Bare in mind the mouth peice is just a module, and ive designed it so that a roller coaster will be able to go through the worm.
Also before you notice and ask. the bottom Lip, ive deliberately kept open slightly because given im a freak for details, i dont like how doors in planet coaster clips through the track. it kills the immersion for me. Ideally all 4 lips would close fully but yaa..
but my idea is that the roller coaster gets swollowed and stops inside, where you see the worm basically trying to digest the rollercoaster, before spitting you out backwards!
so in a nutshell the roller coaster goes in, stops, and get accelerating in reverse back out where you came.
Now im also going to animate its butt however im not entirely sure how im goign to animate given its bone related for planet coaster.
Im also workign on stomache modules so that you can elongate the worms size but also im planning on modelling corner modules too.
Im also keeping my models low poly. Ive seen quite a few peoples work here on the forums and i cringe at the polycount in the thousands for this stuff and im thinking about all users with my content, not just the high end pc gamers.
That worm is crazy good modeling. Forget the LOD program - it messed things up and I never realized. It's from years back anyway (I'm using 2012 [rolleyes]). I can't get the axis to work correctly for animation. No matter what I do, the rotation axis in game is completely wrong, despite max showing it the way it was intended. Seems like things go wrong right out of the gate, the moment I lay down the first bone, if I hit reset xform, it rotates the root bone. This is without doing any rotation or sizing yet. This means I'm definitely starting off doing something wrong, like working if Xform is already correcting. I tried working in different ref coordinate views, and that doesn't do anything. Y Up on save doesn't do anything.
There are a few doors already in the workshop - so yes indeed. That's what I was planning on doing once I get my XYZ to behave. You have to do the full animation (open/close), and I believe PlanCo's built in features will help you determine timing?
believe it or not the worm is pretty poor for my modelling skills. lol.
It was something i quickly threw together. I was thinking about going alot more detailed with eyes and alot more detail aroudn the mouth, perhaps a second layer of teeth or a beek like you have with octopus's etc etc, and really give it a far better realistic look, but as i said at the end of my last message. i do like to keep all my models low poly even on the highest LOD simply because im pro Performance.
I do feel as though alot of people get carried away with highpoly stuff, and wonder why games lag so much.
Ill see how it goes once its textured and imported in the game. who knows i might revamp it altogether and make it far better looking.
Im making the worm Modular anyway so i oculd make different styles of worm Mouths.
Ya bones a weird one in Max. I had similar issues before, and read somethwhere that its best to be in the "left" viewport, so that the bones face forward. In my experience though bones have a tendency to spawn at any rotation facing either axis. I only noticed that when you add front / back and side fins.
animation and rigging is very much a weak point for me. i dont do it enough to really know everything inside and out. that said iam working on my own Viking game, in parallel to this and rigging characters have been fun.
also its a very bad idea to use Xform on bones, or any animation, or model during the rigging and animation phase. it ︎︎︎︎︎ up everything, and you cannot undo it. you have to reload a save file.
Its best to do xform as soon as you finished modelling before you start uvwmappingand animating etc.
xform is only really needed if you rotated your model without having been in subobject mode having rotated the vertices and polygons. its highly recommended you rotate your model in subobject mode selecting all your polygon faces or vertices. that way the actual model hasnt been rotated. you have to imagine a hidden bounding box around your model. its that in which you shouldnt tamper with.
yes but where on the timeline does planetcoaster "stop" the animation for the delay?
Usually when makign door animations, you have 2 animation sequences. an openning sequence, and a close sequence. and in game, it would understand that each animation sequence will be played when commanded too, defined to whether the game intends to open or close.
In planetcoaster theres no guide at all, regardng doors, and i dont know if i need to make 2 naimation sequences, or 1 fluent one, and wheereo n the itmeline planet coaster delays on.
Thanks. Yeah, Xform can be deadly, and I use it as a last resort, but most times, my model doesn't come out of it alive unless it's in its early stages. I use orthographic view for bone animation, using the left or top view. The BIG PROBLEM now is - TMT is 100% broken for 3DS Max animation export, unless you like all your objects looking like they're trying to stand upright during a hurricane. I hope Frontier can get on this, and not wait for some major update since the problem seems to be in the TMT itself. I really don't want to be forced to learn Blender when I know Max fairly well. Based on previous messages, it's been broken for months, but I just posted it in the TMT bug topic. Not many 3DS Max users yet, so who knows if they even knew.
Oh. Ya im not aware of the TMT bug. Do you have a linky?
Yes thats why i originally made this thread because the population here for 3dsmax users are low. very low. I also found that theres little to nothing for 3dsmax here regarding tutorials and guides. alot of what ive read has been a guessing game having read what blender users are upto.
Even the official TMT guide has 3dsmax scene tutorials missing.
Well... i certainly hope TMT works with me regarding my worm :S
Id hate to think ive put all this effort into it only to find out it wont work.
I also dont understand why 3dsmax would be the only program that it doesnt work with given all of us export using FBX. Maybe we need to find a different ASCII / Binary version?
Ohhh i hate orthograpthic lol. everything looks weird hehe.