Any chance you could just...not reset the Thargoid War timers weekly?

TheTechnobear

T
Star Wanderer said:
From what i read, Bruce said yesterday hours befor this topic was created:
"This is our first time simulating a real-time galactic war. We'll adjust things from the original estimates as time goes."
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I think this was to some extent, nonsense...

U14 brought in new game mechanics... based around a new model based around certain 'war goals'.
the devs would have, and should have been monitoring progress towards these goals.
even from the outside, it was clear, very early on - that even with elevated player numbers, the targets were not even close.

sure, we as players, didnt know about the 'weekly reset'... but Fdev developers did.

so none of this should have been a surprise, and they could have, and should have done something prior to reset.
as frankly, the reaction here, was completely unsurprising...
(... and at no point had Fdev mentioned that the states would reset on a weekly tick)


as a developer myself, you dont just release something, and then not monitor how its working out in practice, in the field.
you also allow some time to resolve the issues.

sure there were other bugs to look at etc, but U14 main thing, was the delivery of a new narrative.
the model behind that war, was the key deliverable... they should be watching how it pans out like a hawk!
 

Star Wanderer

Star Wanderer
TheTechnobear said:
I think this was to some extent, nonsense...

U14 brought in new game mechanics... based around a new model based around certain 'war goals'.
the devs would have, and should have been monitoring progress towards these goals.
even from the outside, it was clear, very early on - that even with elevated player numbers, the targets were not even close.

sure, we as players, didnt know about the 'weekly reset'... but Fdev developers did.

so none of this should have been a surprise, and they could have, and should have done something prior to reset.
as frankly, the reaction here, was completely unsurprising...
(... and at no point had Fdev mentioned that the states would reset on a weekly tick)


as a developer myself, you dont just release something, and then not monitor how its working out in practice, in the field.
you also allow some time to resolve the issues.

sure there were other bugs to look at etc, but U14 main thing, was the delivery of a new narrative.
the model behind that war, was the key deliverable... they should be watching how it pans out like a hawk!
Click to expand...
First time following Frontier development process of this game? Yeah, you'll get use to it. :sneaky:. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't get anything adjusted this year.
Patience is kind of one of main feature of this game.
 

Northpin

Northpin
Episparh said:
No it is not. In BGS and PP if I do one point and other side does zero - I win. With thargoid war we have something else.
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It actually is.
It's like me, settling in a system, working for hours every day, day after day, flipping it to what ever faction i like, making them win station after station.

Then a larger PMF jumps in and rolls me over.
No matter how much effort i put in, i cannot beat them

My time spent fixing that system was wasted.
Right?

Now it's the same, but on a larger scale.
We just did 1 million points, but FDev fixed the numbers to 5 millions and we just lost a week long battle.

For the moment, FDev has the numbers on their side (Literally 😂) and a story to progress not over weeks, but apparently over years
 

Episparh

Episparh
Northpin said:
It actually is.
It's like me, settling in a system, working for hours every day, day after day, flipping it to what ever faction i like, making them win station after station.

Then a larger PMF jumps in and rolls me over.
No matter how much effort i put in, i cannot beat them

My time spent fixing that system was wasted.
Right?

Now it's the same, but on a larger scale.
We just did 1 million points, but FDev fixed the numbers to 5 millions and we just lost a week long battle.

For the moment, FDev has the numbers on their side (Literally 😂) and a story to progress not over weeks, but apparently over years
Click to expand...
You are missing the point - BGS and PP are player vs player. There is no group in the game that can counter the collective effort of 6k CMDRs.
Sure, if I was trying to solo win the war vs Thargoids I would expect my time to be wasted but that is not what we see. Good luck defending 200+ systems when other maelstroms arrive.

I never expected that we would stop the attack but not be able to defend a single system even after such great interest and community involvement is just another nail in the coffin.

No wonders the majority of players that I have contact with gave up to even try for this week.

And to those who thinks that this was right/good game design I can only wish "Good luck!"
 

Wlfric

W
This makes me think of those RPGs where you meet a boss you simply cannot beat the first time you meet them. No matter your skill or effort the badguy is just too powerful. But instead of losing the whole game, you get a cut-scene of the boss gloating over you, monologing how you're too weak to face him.
First time you play the game you throw your heart into it and give it your all. Second play through you just toss the controller on the couch and go get a snack without even trying to fight him, knowing the cut-scene is coming and you're not going to waste your time and effort on something you know is programmed for you to lose.

Is that what this is, FDev? ROFL..
 

Northpin

Northpin
Episparh said:
You are missing the point - BGS and PP are player vs player. There is no group in the game that can counter the collective effort of 6k CMDRs.
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I'm not missing the point.
This is about wasted time not about player versus player.


And you are quite wrong about your second phrase. There is a group that can counter everything we may throw at it.
It's FDev :)
We are playing their game.
And if their narrative requires us to lose half the bubble we will lose it, no matter how much "i give up" tantrum we may flash out.
 

Jabo Zerstorer

Jabo Zerstorer
Jmanis said:
Yup. I was happy to read between the lines on "ok, it seems pretty bleak right now, but we'll probably be given better tools later"... but unless that's an order of magnitude or more capability, letting individuals comfortably solo hydras without much skill, i don't see how this mechanic is workable.
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Bruce has said tweaks will be made.
 

Episparh

Episparh
Northpin said:
I'm not missing the point.
This is about wasted time not about player versus player.


And you are quite wrong about your second phrase. There is a group that can counter everything we may throw at it.
It's FDev :)
We are playing their game.
And if their narrative requires us to lose half the bubble we will lose it, no matter how much "i give up" tantrum we may flash out.
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FDev can win a big ..... if players give them a big F ;)

There is no need to put the Thargoids behind impenetrable wall to achieve half bubble burning. We could win one system and loose 30 in the process. Does this looks like a win for you?
 

Jabo Zerstorer

Jabo Zerstorer
Northpin said:
I dont think the weekly reset is the problem
The thresholds are the problem

Yesterday's (not sure if they got changed during today's maintenance, probably not) thresholds were so high that it made pointless any attempt to do anything.

Balancing this seems rather hard.
Too high and it requires a too concerted effort from too many players.
Too low and it will be done too fast and will ruin their schedule for the narrative.

I think they may also have overestimated the will of the player base to be forced into a prolonged conflict with the thargoids
(and no, what we had before U14 was not really a conflict, but something that offered an infinite amount of targets for shooting practice with no repercussions)
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They'd have to announce the Thargsday tick threshold change, otherwise nobody would even notice because it seems everyone has given up already. They may well already have made adjustments but because people have thrown in the towel already, nobody will notice.
 
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Star Wanderer

Star Wanderer
St0rmFury said:
View attachment 336529
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Looks like AXI are not throwing the towel, but continue the fight:

" We at the AXI will continue our operations and taking into consideration the integrity of mankind against the thargoid siege, we will also update our focus as required or as soon the engineers and scientific community releases a new CG that could benefit us on turning the tide
o7 and Glory To Mankind " :love:
 

photomankc

photomankc
Ian Doncaster said:
Sure, because if you add up all the progress made on all the bars over all the systems (most of which were zero visible, of course) then it's obvious that even focusing all available effort perfectly on a single system would still result in a failure, and not even a narrow "we'll get it next time!" one. The assumption that it did carry-over was the only way even the smallest victory was possible at all.

It's not giving up at that stage to decide that this week is probably a good week to try out some exobiology or play around with the maelstrom a bit or do a bit of trading - in fact, you can do so in the full and guaranteed knowledge that your absence won't make the slightest bit of difference. If you're still enjoying the AX combat for its own sake, you also have the advantage of knowing that you don't need to meet any quota - you can just shoot however many you think is fun and then stop.
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Pretty close to what I think. If the focused and out of the gate enthusiasm and involvement seen this week is not enough even get close to the goal line in a single system then there is absolutely zero point in the effort and the weekly reset makes that a hard fact. Even if this level of effort was enough to save one system over multiple weeks we were being destroyed. This simply confirms there is zero benefit beyond materials and credits to participate in the conflict side at all until they adjust the metrics or allow for carry-over.
 
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Cori

Cori
photomankc said:
Pretty close to what I think. If the focused and out of the gate enthusiasm and involvement seen this week is not enough even get close to the goal line in a single system then there is absolutely zero point in the effort and the weekly reset makes that a hard fact. Even is this level of effort was enough to save one system over multiple weeks we were being destroyed. This simply confirms there is zero benefit beyond materials and credits to participate in the conflict side at all until they adjust the metrics or allow for carry-over.
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Even if getting over 50% by the weekly reset meant us taking a station or port from the Thargoids rather than the other way around, that would be something.
 

Red Anders

Red Anders
Episparh said:
You are missing the point - BGS and PP are player vs player. There is no group in the game that can counter the collective effort of 6k CMDRs.
Sure, if I was trying to solo win the war vs Thargoids I would expect my time to be wasted but that is not what we see. Good luck defending 200+ systems when other maelstroms arrive.

I never expected that we would stop the attack but not be able to defend a single system even after such great interest and community involvement is just another nail in the coffin.

No wonders the majority of players that I have contact with gave up to even try for this week.
Click to expand...
I'm glad it fell to my grandad's generation to defend us during WWII, or I'd be tucking into a bratwust and wearing lederhosen whilst replying to this 🤣
 

Trowa Deathwind

T
This whole event is FDEV's 'No Man's Sky' redemption arc. This war needs FDEV to stay out of it and let humanity and Thargoids slug it out.

No one is or asking for 'easy'. What players want is war. They didn't need to reset progress. A system almost taken while more fall; this is how they could have played out the hopelessness. Not ruin the motivation of players. This whole ordeal has people hyped and wanting to commit. They need to stay out of it. Their two jobs: Narrate and play the Thargoids. That's it.

This is how FDEV can bring their game back from the grave. This narrative is perfect for new ships, ship rebalancing on current ships, new weapons, new modules, new Thargoid evolutions. War brings R&D on both sides. This can pave the way for soooo much!

Does FDEV truly understand what they have awakened? Do they even know?
 

MacHurto

M
Star Wanderer said:
Looks like AXI are not throwing the towel, but continue the fight:

" We at the AXI will continue our operations and taking into consideration the integrity of mankind against the thargoid siege, we will also update our focus as required or as soon the engineers and scientific community releases a new CG that could benefit us on turning the tide
o7 and Glory To Mankind " :love:
Click to expand...
Makes sense to also change the target of operations. After all, we evacuated everyone from HIP 23716 :-D
 

Episparh

Episparh
Red Anders said:
I'm glad it fell to my grandad's generation to defend us during WWII, or I'd be tucking into a bratwust and wearing lederhosen whilst replying to this 🤣
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See, there is a big difference.
  1. We cannot develop anything except given by FDev.
  2. We cannot win vs Thargoids even a single system NOW because FDev put them behind a brick wall.
  3. We can only prepare and wait FDev to add something or tweak something. ...but Then I am well prepared
So, as another fellow forumite said "I am throwing the pad on the couch and waiting the cut scene to end". To bad Frontier pulled this one just before they go dark for a festive Christmas month.
 
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