Yes sorry, I was agreeing with you but kind of continuing on from your post, rather than directly replying to it.
Any grind, is in your mind.
- Thread starter shadragon
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Yes sorry, I was agreeing with you but kind of continuing on from your post, rather than directly replying to it.
I think maybe the less obvious the grind becomes? If you're repeating a basic, easy task over and over, that's grind. Sometimes it can be fun but it's mostly used negatively though it also follows that you grind to get somewhere better - so the end result is a positive most of the time.
Some people like to grind where as others don't. I think it might only be "grind" when it's easy, boring tasks you need to do. Levelling up in Black Desert was most defintely a grind. Boring to the nth...
Now if ED had some fun, challenging game play modes that offered variety as well as challenge, if they're fun to play, you're still grinding the game because you're "goal" is to get that next ship or module, however, because you have fun, the goal isn't as pressing to get.
When you're bored, you want whatever you're doing to be over as quick as possible so something fun can happen. The fun part is moreso in your mind because you're so bored, you really need to get to the fun.
If you're having fun anyway, but later you're going to get something for it, you're not really that fussed about when it comes because of the fun you're having now.
ED therefore is a grind because the journey is boring for a lot of people and for the reasons I gave above.
There is to some. basically you can summarise this entire 'debate' as such:
1) Some people do not experience grind and are having fun. Other people are encouraged to have fun, but its fine if they do what in their own experience is grind/unfun. There is no wrong/right, there is having fun and not having fun.
2) Some people do experience grind, and are unhappy. They want everyone else to acknowledge that the game is a grind and not fun. There is a 'right' here, and that is that people should 'admit' the game is 'a grind'.
I dont get the burning desire of some people to 'convert' people from having fun to not having fun. It would make more sense to try and have fun yourself. I do get why people would try and help others having fun. Its a nice gesture, but thoroughly lost on those who insist that this game is a grind/unfun. So I personally think at this point that the best answer to someone saying "ED is a grind!!!!!!" is to either ignore or reply with a simple "okay.".
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No they are the game objectives, coded into the game by FD. If you're asked to list the objectives to reach in the game prior to playing it, that's what you'd list out. You'd then cry foul when they played those objectives and that doesn't make sense. You could say the objective "is to just bumble about" however most people don't want to play a space hobo for 10 years, they'd like to achieve something. For this reason, ED don't market "be a space hobo and drift around aimlessly finding FUN!"
They actually market it, "Play your OWN way" - by this they are not talk to you specifically - you know this right? That when they say YOUR OWN way they don't mean you and we need to play YOUR way. They're generalising that line to mean we can all play the game the way we want to play it?
LOl did u get the remastered version?
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
Yeah I already facepalmed mysefl over that one
Using "imagination", CZ's could be around asteroid clusters or space stations themselves or the hulk of a captial ship - hell, even put in some of the CQC maps without the stupid pick ups. Make it a little like skyrim with random encounters around the system (and get rid of supercruise and USS's at the same time.
No, the assumption is illogical as I'm arguing the logical point of the argument about ED. I haven't played the game in months because there's no "game" there yet. Playing "whatever takes my fancy" also means, "challenging, interesting, rewarding and fun gameplay". This does not mean I can't argue the case ED is grindy so now you know of another reason I can argue, it makes your reasoning illogical by your own assumption and admission as there's at least a third logical alternative. Just because you didn't think of it, doesn't mean you're not assuming which you are.
I wasn't talking about paywalls, can you please stay on topic, I don't want to get into conversations about other things.
You just gave your "credentials, 33 years wasn't it? Why on earth would you say that you were 33 years in the gaming industry then, or, worse, allude that you were when you weren't? How on earth have my credentials gone out the window? I've provided sound reasoning in my posts to argue a point and, as we've just discovered, you don't have logic as I just told you I haven't played the game in months. Going to try and pull the "oh, haven't played in months you can't have a say" canard, are you now?
Can you give me one reason why you get to dictate the game to others? Why is whoever gets a clipper when or how any business of yours. Please, PLEASE explain how this has anything at all, whatsoever to do with you.
So you won't answer how long to rank up because now you see the corner you're walking into. Answer the question. We're not talking about a real life career - you said that as an obvious red herring. It has nothing to do with anything. This is a game, now how long do you think it should take to get to top fed rank? it's a very simple question and I'll persist in asking you it until I get an answer or until you just ignore me. It has nothing to do with if you play them. You can tell everyone how they should play the game but you can't tell us all how long you think it should take to get to full fed navy rank?
Learn and understand what? You haven't answered my questions. You've evaded. I can and will keep asking over and over again if I have to. Once again I'll point you to the multitude of posters here who spent time trying to educate you and who's posts are far more robust and better formed than yours. You're whole argument it "it's in the mind accept it" - no - why on earth would I accept that drivvel over the well reasoned posts of other people here? On the face of the arguments presented here, there's are far better. The other side is childish at best - can you answer why I would accept childish responses over adult ones?
You don't powerplay? I don't either. So how is it that you who've played countless more hours than I, are frequent on the forums as I am and has been playing the game recently and has Horizons which I don't is less informed about the game than I am? Even I know Powerplay is a massive grind but that's not the worst part. The worst part is your argument which is this.
"I don't play powerplay so grind doesn't exist" Bran, come on bro can you not see how wrong you are in all of this? You can't even offer a decent argument as to why the game isn't grind. I feel like we're just going to have to agree to disagree soon.
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Fine that you don't believe me, I do not need your justification for anything and by the way, it was you who asked me a question that I responded to. Not very good at remembering yesterday are you. Now that we have also established that you are arguing just for the sake of it I choose (there's that word you don't understand again!) to ignore you and all your comments, reading them has been the biggest grind of my life.
Sorry if this is seen as a personal attack on Jex by the mods but I don't particularly care to engage with certain types of people.
In fact, sod it. Everytime I have engaged with Jex in any topic it always ends the same. He cannot for the life of him accept that others have a different point of view to him - he then proceeds to batter and berate them until they cave in. I for one do not care to debate with such an obvious troll anymore!
If this gets me a ban, it will of been worth it as I have never encountered such a petty & trivial individual in my life and I do not intend to continue to read all of his pathetic attempts at goading.
Welcome to the ignore list Jex, this time, you stay on it.
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"This Thread.. The Combat-Logging Thread, and a lot-lizard's herpies..."
"Things that just won't go away."
"Things that just won't go away."
That was a loaded question indeed. I personally think the question should be:
How many interesting and fun ways are available to quickly gain rank in federation, and how long will it take to progress through all that content?
It wasn't a loaded question at all. Because reality? that's how it's loaded? LOL
Look, I'm not going to repeat myself a fourth time for you. It doesn't even matter what context you're using it, it won't have a magical new meaning, and finding a backwater internet definition from helpmewinthisargument.com doesn't cut it. I never argued about your opinion, merely that you were and continue to fail at understanding the basic argumentative terminology and can't have a valid point based on facts and not opinion until you do.
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No they are not objectives. They can be goals if you choose to make them your goals. Just because ranks are coded into the game doesn't make them a goal, that is a players choice.
Yes I agree, play the game your own way. If you want to do retative tasks which you find boring and feel forced to watch netflix, that is the players fault, not the game. There is plenty to do that isn't boring.
Your objective is how you go about getting your goals. I had a goal to get a python, my objective was to have fun doing it (i never got the python in the end as my goals changed during my game time).
This is a choice I make, not the game. Other peoples objective will be to get that ship as soon as possible at all costs. They end up doing repetative tasks and getting bored, but again that is their choice. Your goals and objectives are entirely up to to you as a player in this game.
Can you not see this. It is plainly obvious to me and others. There are no grind mechanics. Just because there is a ranking system doesn't mean you have to acheive any ranks, they don't mean anything in the grand scheme of things, and if someone decides that it does, that is up to them, not Frontiers or the games.
Look up what grind means. It is repatative tasks to gain access to other features within the game. The parts of the game you need to grind in is Power Play and small parts of the enginners, but even that is pushing it a bit.
So we can see here how much handwaving has gone on. A perfectly reasonable post but it asked questions Bran wouldn't answer. Just a reminder, he was the one that came out with the "33 years of gaming and industry, what's yours?" as a snidey attack on me.
What I cannot accept is bad arguments. You'll note I asked for answers and I got on his ignore list. If you cannot answer simple questions then don't start shouting others down as wrong. This is not how you debate, I wasn't rude, unlike Bran was but I kept to the point and he couldn't handle that but not content with leaving it at that, he's now tried to paint me as the villain because I demanded answers to questions he refused to deal with.
Being adamant at getting answers is what I do. I realise some people just like to say their point and name call others for not getting it but that is not a reasonable way to discuss things. They don't like it when you press them for logical answers but how are we meant to progress from that? If you don't pin someone down, are we just going to go around in circles getting nowhere? Why bother wasting time doing that? I'd rather give good points and hear good rebuttals than name calling and bad arguments.
What I don't get from all this if there is no grind, how did the word ever exist and become attached to gaming? People like playing WoW but that's described as grindy. People enjoy WoW so the argument that if it's enjoyed it can't be a grind.....
Sorry, I thought the objective of the game was to get to Elite rank? From the ED home page
These are clealy objectives. Call them goals if you want it means the same. They added more of them over time. I think I see where I might be confusing, I didn't mean they were set in stone objectives that you must do, but if you were asked what the objectives of the game were, what would you say?
What would you say to someone who wanted to rank up in the federation?
Going back to grind mechanics, are you saying there's no repetitive gameplay to acheive goals in the game because PowerPlay clearly is. This is what I meant, "coded into the game" as in, FD have clearly put in a game mode to be played. YOU don't have to play it but we're not basing the game around you. This is a clear mechanic in the game that is a grind. Eng is if you are a PVP player I would imagine too.
It isn't a grind if you want to spend the next 5 years doodling around. What about people who want to achieve things in the game quicker?
Man, sorry to say this but you are looking desperate to prove your point. Knowhere does it say the you have to have that as your goal. It is a sand box. Decide for yourself instead of being a sheep.
Ofcourse. People who take responsibility for their own actions dont need to prove points, they are just doing what they feel like doing. People who are unhappy MUST prove its nto their fault, otherwise they have themselves to blame for wasting hundreds of hours not having fun. Thats why NMS failed due to Sony, people die due to 'griefers', people have no fun because of devs, people lose the election due to media etc etc etc. Its just easier than dealing with reality.
Your borderline resorting to insults now Max - the sign of losing an argument. I'm trying to explain a point, you're failing to understand it. I'm giving you the courtesy of my time to try and get across this VERY easy to understand concept. You and Sleut refuse to accept it or fail to understand it.
Look, you're both trying to put the blame on me here - I'm not the one that cannot understand grinding game mechanics. I haven't wasted "hunderds of hours" on the game because it's not up to par. You may both enjoy a game based on RNG, where nothing makes sense and the gameplay is simple and basic - can you now see how others here can understand the things the two of you cannot even after 30 pages of us explaining it to you.
"But Jex, you're desperate to prove your point!!"
LMAO no, you're not able to grasp it but I'm done here. I'll let you both have the last word and make up things about my position because you're both disingenuous - go for it
edit: stay out of it Ziggy [mad]
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