Any grind, is in your mind.

[Lordfrith]

I'm not quite understanding all of the "But you do it to yourself, re: grind" arguments.

People are not doing it to themselves. FDev's design is poorly implemented and they've proven that they're in favor of the grind and the time sink over and over again

firstly I agree with most of you guys comments for needed depth (although i don't expect too much handcrafting from a project with the scale of Elite). However as you say this is a game with a proven track record for grinding and time sinks (all the way back to 1984 o7).

So we all agree Elite is busting with grind, the claim 'you do it to yourself' only really applies to those that fixate on one thing for ages... far longer than we could reasonably expect any game designer to make the same action exciting. The end goals that people choose to motivate themselves is quite their own business but i don't think its ever necessary in Elite to need to grind on one thing for AGES. To say its boring to grind out cutter rank does invite the response 'so don't do it' precisely because you don't need to do it! slow and steady wins the race and all that

Yes but you are not the the player base. How you play is not where we judge if a game is grindy or not. We need to look objectively, not subjectively. This game has a name for itself in "Shallow", "Grindy" and "Netflix" - this is what masses of people have described it.

we all agree on the presence of the grind (or game or...). the differences are more in how to approach it which is entirely subjective as a player.

And no he isn't the playerbase, neither am i, neither are you.

we ALL are

Perhaps this is all due to an identity issue that allows people of different playstyles to collide over that which isn't clearly defined

this!

 

[Jenner]

Reason why people complain about the grind .....

A very well reasoned respone. I agree 100%.

 

[fu9ar]

Yeah, you're pretty wrong with that statement.

This goes right back to assuming your way is the right way to play the game when, in fact, there is no single right way to play the game.

ED is not a sim. It's more arcade than anything else as the only accurate "sim" type representation is the galaxy itself, not the content delivered to the players or how we pursue it.

Whining to the devs incessantly about how your chosen way to make easy money isnt available and you cant mindlessly stack missions because passengers keep pointing you different directions and mining is boring and rebuys on billion dollar ships are too expensive that you keep losing every day because your a Sothislord scrub who thought that gitting rich was the same as gitting gud is clearly the wrong way to play the game. Not saying this is you, but... it is a lot of other people.

Also, ED is NOT an arcade game. That's the dumbest thing I've read on these forums by a mile, bro.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

You can't even define what "depth" really means yourself

Depth in games comes from being given simple rules that you can combine in different ways to produce complex outcomes.

EG: ED has depth in its flight mechanics:

- Simple rules:
---- Pip management
---- Lateral thrusters
---- Flight Assist on/off
---- Boosting

Combining each of these aspects together and you can produce complex flight patterns which generally makes flying fun (your opinion may differ of course)

That is depth.

EDIT:
When a game lacks depth (in a particular aspect) then performing that activity can induce grind. Exploration, for me, is both a mental-endurance test and a major grind because the actual exploration aspect (for discovering astral bodies and the details about them) can be summed up in 1 word : honk and that is both mindless and lacking in any depth. If FD were to make the actual exploration aspect more interactive and challenging that for me would go a long way in reducing the chore (grind) aspect of exploration.

Naturally those who are in it for the eye candy (and similar reasons) may not agree with me here.

 

[Ziljan]

Your opinion on the "Elite grind" will depend largely on whether you play Elite as a game or as a simulator. The OP is right if you play Elite as a Simulator of having a 2nd life in space. In this case, you can safely ignore the arbitrary accomplishment aspects. However, if you play Elite as a Game, and adhere to the arbitrary goalposts of rank and accumulation of items, then yes there is a grind available. Which view is more accurate? This is really just a rephrasing of the question: is there a "correct way" to play Elite?

Personally, the answer to this question depends on my mood that day/week. Some weeks I just want to delve into the ambiance of a planet's surface, figure out some aspect of the game's mechanics, or assist my group accomplish our common RP goal even if it costs me money or assets. And other days, I just want to see my rank or CR go up a couple %.

 

[digitalscream]

I'm impressed with the OP's gumption. After I got excoriated for the same view on an almost-identical thread last week, I'd have thought people would shy away from expressing it

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

That's the dumbest thing I've read on these forums by a mile, bro.

In that case, you must be new here. Welcome to the forum! The beer is in the fridge and you've already met most of the nuts.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

In that case, you must be new here. Welcome to the forum! The beer is in the fridge and you've already met most of the nuts.

You haven't met nuts until you've met Deez.

 

[AutoMechancal]

Any grind, is in your mind.

I should report this for being disrespectful for how insulting it is, but hey if you like flying around doing stuff very slowly maybe you should reset you save everytime you go past a sidewinder.

Your either unemployed or an idiot, with no respect for peoples time. Everything about this game is a grind. Yeah sure some of them are more fun then others, but that doesn't mean it's any less grindy. Hell because of engineers even pvp is a grind now, and its one of the worst kinds. A grind for power.

With this said I don't think that it's horrible to have the game be grindy it is trying to be an mmo-lite or like. So there's always going to be the fact that some things are going to need you to grind for them, and some of them are a lot of fun. However deluding yourself into thinking that their is no grind is disrespectful to players like myself who have played for a long time and are time poor because of employment or family commitments.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You know what would really annoy you?

If I told you that every time I read the thread title, I read it to the melody of Penny Lane, and I add "and in your eyes" at the end.

That would be a crappy thing for me to do, so I won't. You're welcome

 

[Jenner]

I should report this for being disrespectful for how insulting it is, but hey if you like flying around doing stuff very slowly maybe you should reset you save everytime you go past a sidewinder.

Your either unemployed or an idiot, with no respect for peoples time. Everything about this game is a grind. Yeah sure some of them are more fun then others, but that doesn't mean it's any less grindy. Hell because of engineers even pvp is a grind now, and its one of the worst kinds. A grind for power.

With this said I don't think that it's horrible to have the game be grindy it is trying to be an mmo-lite or like. So there's always going to be the fact that some things are going to need you to grind for them, and some of them are a lot of fun. However deluding yourself into thinking that their is no grind is disrespectful to players like myself who have played for a long time and are time poor because of employment or family commitments.

Mod hat on..

I know hyperbole is all the rage these days, but let's not be disrespectful. People can have different opinions and that's fine.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Some weeks I just want to delve into the ambiance of a planet's surface, <snip>.

I've *submerged* below the surface of a planet.

 

[Theodrid]

I should report this for being disrespectful for how insulting it is.

Your either unemployed or an idiot, with no respect for peoples time.

You were saying?, what world are you living in if you think 'grind is in the mind' is insulting but it's okay to go on and say that?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

People can have different opinions and that's fine.

I disagree with that opinion.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

I am addicted to the flying.

I am also insane.

Hence, I play Elite, and participate on these forums.

 

[jasonbarron]

If I really, really, really want to gain 50lbs in a week that would be a grind. Doesnt mean eating is a grind.

You know sleuty, I find that I either agree with you hard, or disagree with you hard (please don't make this weird), and with this comment I find that it's the former this time. Have some rep

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Depth in games comes from being given simple rules that you can combine in different ways to produce complex outcomes.

EG: ED has depth in its flight mechanics:

- Simple rules:
---- Pip management
---- Lateral thrusters
---- Flight Assist on/off
---- Boosting

Combining each of these aspects together and you can produce complex flight patterns which generally makes flying fun (your opinion may differ of course)

That is depth.

EDIT:
When a game lacks depth (in a particular aspect) then performing that activity can induce grind. Exploration, for me, is both a mental-endurance test and a major grind because the actual exploration aspect (for discovering astral bodies and the details about them) can be summed up in 1 word : honk and that is both mindless and lacking in any depth. If FD were to make the actual exploration aspect more interactive and challenging that for me would go a long way in reducing the chore (grind) aspect of exploration.

Naturally those who are in it for the eye candy (and similar reasons) may not agree with me here.

Actually this is first time someone gave good example what 'depth' means in their opinion. Thanks.

In that way I can agree exploration has little to go on and it can easily introduce grind elements if it is done extensively. I would agree less on other professions. If you remove third party help those require some know how and understanding and figuring out.

Nothing I say should imply I am against more detailed gameplay - I desire more and more of interesting and expanded mechanics. If that 'removes' grindeness for some players - YAY. As for current state...I just agree with premise that it is all grind. Some parts are less detailed and thus feel more grindy. Yes. But not everything in ED does.

 

[Cageman]

And loads of people don't lol and tbh, the people that find it fun aren't the people I want having any say in the game because it's not gameplay. If anything, I think it and other mechanics are detrimental to the game.

Well, I would argue that it requires a lot of thought and planning. Since you are affecting the BGS when doing Trading, you can't stay on the same route forever. So, you need some time to find 3-4 routes and use them carefully.

With my Trade Anaconda, I make about 9 million / 30 minutes in one route. But even within that short timespan, the payout drops off. IE; with 30 minutes of doing one A-B-A route, you will notice that the last payout is less than the first.

Time to move to the second route or maybe do something else.

Saying that Trading isn't gameplay is false and ignorant.

 

[Jenner]

I disagree with that opinion.

Pretty much sums up the entire forum.

 

[verminstar]

Technically, every single aspect of this game is in the mind. Not to quote the matrix but it's all nothing more than electrical signals interpreted by yer brain.

How does one define grind anyway in the context of gaming? Everything in this game is a grind...just that some grind is more fun than other grind...but in the end, good or bad, its all still grind ^^