Engineers are npc's too hard?

[zzzornbringer]

i was just killed two times in a row in a low intensity conflict zone. i'm using a vulture. first time it took about 3 seconds, second time i tried to escape but 2 ships decided to hunt me down. boosted as often as i could, all energy to drives. they killed me non the less. one was master, one was dangerous. i'm only competent.

last played the game several months ago and was killed once in my entire play time. a challenge is nice but this seems to be a bit excessive. it also felt like the npc's were cheating. they kept firing at me while i was boosting away constantly.

this was a low intensity conflict zone and i use a combat oriented ship. how's this supposed to work when you get destroyed in 3 seconds? pick the right faction or die instantly? i had two missions there. guess i don't do that then.

 

[fademist]

maybe u miss enchancements from engineers

 

[StiTch]

No, they aren't.

You're in a chaotic warzone as a competent level pilot taking on dangerous level enemies.

Review your loadout (assistance can be provided if you post a link), increase your skillset (post any questions on techniques and I am sure someone will help), wing up with another CMDR (for the love of mercy, I would think this is an obvious solution), get some RNGineer help behind your ship (real, real benefits to be had here and last patch made them a lot easier), or all of the above. If you have no-one to wing up with let me know and I am sure we can arrange some quality one-on-one time

 

[Kzak]

You should try some resource extraction zones instead of combat zones, which are much more difficult than before. Make sure you carry no cargo when you go to the RES zones, and you should be able to engage one ship at a time at your leisure until you can upgrade your ship/buy a new one as you please.

 

[sbdags]

I think it is about right except the Elite ranked NPCs. Rather than use skill they are massively overpowered plus infinite ammo / scbs doesn't help. I won't take them on until I have outfitted my Python / Conda with as many engineered parts as I am willing to grind for.

 

[StiTch]

I think it is about right except the Elite ranked NPCs. Rather than use skill they are massively overpowered plus infinite ammo / scbs doesn't help. I won't take them on until I have outfitted my Python / Conda with as many engineered parts as I am willing to grind for.

The AI does break rules but in more subtle ways. Are you telling me that you've sat around to wait for AI ships to burn through over two thousand bullets?

The real issue is in things like their responses and their handling in SC. The AI has to respond directly to your input because to create AI that responds to "visuals" in terms of what it would see and handle it from there, it would be a lot of complicated work. So high ranking NPCs will generally show a quicker reaction than can be expected of any human.

Also ticks me off that they break rules on FSD cooldowns and somehow are capable of jumping into my instance as I do even though there was no AI ship in SC anywhere remotely near me. Psychic NPCs that can teleport are a little bit immersion breaking, folks.

 

[Some1else]

@OP. If its been a few months, things have changed. Unless you upgrade that Vulture with engineered mods, you should only go to RES sights, and stay away from wings. As stated before, a stock A spec ship now, is about like a C spec before engineers, and AI upgrade.

I'm not going to join the debate about the new AI. What I will say is that I find the AI about right in a properly upgraded ship.

LLaP

S1E

 

[zimms]

No.

In your opinion it should be impossible to die?

 

[BigFW]

Nope.

I'm competent rank. I try and avoid combat with Dangerous and above altogether and with expert and Master I look at the Ship they are flying first. Taking on more that one ship is..challenging.
This has been my experience so far in an Asp kitted for multi role with no SCB. Just a bit of hull and shield booster.

Personally I like it like this. If I'm feeling like it I may try and outwit what I would consider a higher level opponent but if I lose I only have myself to blame. I could have run.

 

[zzzornbringer]

I could have run.

that's the thing. i did run. but these two ships kept outrunning me while still shooting at me.

if it's true that you have to upgrade your ship in order to improve your surviveability, then i'd say that there's an imbalance there. i haven't even figured out how to do this, let alone started to farm the resources that i'm sure will be required. i don't know what's the goal here but i think those engineer upgrades should not be a requirement. it should be an upgrade that can give you the edge. i also don't know if people who didn't buy horizons are even able to get those upgrades. i assume they do because it would be borderline pay2win if they wouldn't be able to.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

that's the thing. i did run. but these two ships kept outrunning me while still shooting at me.

if it's true that you have to upgrade your ship in order to improve your surviveability, then i'd say that there's an imbalance there. i haven't even figured out how to do this, let alone started to farm the resources that i'm sure will be required. i don't know what's the goal here but i think those engineer upgrades should not be a requirement. it should be an upgrade that can give you the edge. i also don't know if people who didn't buy horizons are even able to get those upgrades. i assume they do because it would be borderline pay2win if they wouldn't be able to.

"Run" means waking out. Preferrably high-waking. You cannot outrun reliably with normal thrusters. Especially not after AI got all some thruster, engine, energy and whatnot upgrades.

Don't know about the AI difficulty - it is a bit more skilled. I think it's actually the rework of weapons and their special equipment: Nowadays I have to disengage after every bloody fight and go for repairs. Kinda tedious - and there is lots of tedious already in the game.

 

[viper666]

that's the thing. i did run. but these two ships kept outrunning me while still shooting at me.

if it's true that you have to upgrade your ship in order to improve your surviveability, then i'd say that there's an imbalance there. i haven't even figured out how to do this, let alone started to farm the resources that i'm sure will be required. i don't know what's the goal here but i think those engineer upgrades should not be a requirement. it should be an upgrade that can give you the edge. i also don't know if people who didn't buy horizons are even able to get those upgrades. i assume they do because it would be borderline pay2win if they wouldn't be able to.

When you ran, did you go FA off before boosting? Do you have the best thrusters available for the ship? I've never had a problem when it is time to run from a fight. 3 pips to shields 3 to engines, FA off boost, slect a new system and high wake out (no mass lock.)

 

[BigFW]

that's the thing. i did run. but these two ships kept outrunning me while still shooting at me.

if it's true that you have to upgrade your ship in order to improve your surviveability, then i'd say that there's an imbalance there. i haven't even figured out how to do this, let alone started to farm the resources that i'm sure will be required. i don't know what's the goal here but i think those engineer upgrades should not be a requirement. it should be an upgrade that can give you the edge. i also don't know if people who didn't buy horizons are even able to get those upgrades. i assume they do because it would be borderline pay2win if they wouldn't be able to.

Although I've run, I'm plenty shot at while doing so

The only mod I have is FSD so I don't think it is essential to have the mods but no doubt it will make it easier as the NPC's are not supposed to have any.

It's hard to say whether you encountered a bug or were just out flown and gunned. The higher the rank an NPC the more options they have available to them with regards to tactics/manoeuvrability I believe.

 

[StiTch]

that's the thing. i did run. but these two ships kept outrunning me while still shooting at me.

if it's true that you have to upgrade your ship in order to improve your surviveability, then i'd say that there's an imbalance there. i haven't even figured out how to do this, let alone started to farm the resources that i'm sure will be required. i don't know what's the goal here but i think those engineer upgrades should not be a requirement. it should be an upgrade that can give you the edge. i also don't know if people who didn't buy horizons are even able to get those upgrades. i assume they do because it would be borderline pay2win if they wouldn't be able to.

The P2W discussion has come up before. Yes, you need horizons to get the upgrades. No, it's not P2W.

For a start, you're paying £20 for a year's worth of content. Tell me how many games are that financially friendly.

Secondly, we all knew expansions would be dropped in order to progress the game. To avoid the "pay to win" accusations, FD would need to develop 10 years worth of content that has NO method of improving your ship, OR would need to make every expansion free - which is lunacy.

In no other online RPG do people complain that because an expansion dropped, but they didn't want to pay for it, they aren't able to access equipment from the latest raids. NPC ships are very toned down in the mods they're allowed to use as it is.

As for you running away? That's one of the achilles heels of the vulture, I am sorry to say. People love its agility but forget to mention that its speed in a straight line is well in the bottom half of all ships. It's slower than a type 6, to put it in perspective, both on raw and boosted speeds. This is just part of each ship having strengths/weaknesses and was an issue before 2.1; I am guessing it's impacted you more so now because you wouldn't normally have had to run, and because the stronger AI means in the time you're running you're getting hit harder.

 

[thorn-]

i was just killed two times in a row in a low intensity conflict zone.

So - you're voluntarily in a war zone, surrounded by countless enemies, and you don't expect a Quick Death to be an acceptable outcome?

As for you running away? That's one of the achilles heels of the vulture, I am sorry to say. People love its agility but forget to mention that its speed in a straight line is well in the bottom half of all ships.

Exactly. The Vulture is great at turning, and good for Alpha damage. It's not good for beating a pursuit... especially in a Zone where ships and planets are preventing a quick jump.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

i was just killed two times in a row in a low intensity conflict zone...

So - you're voluntarily in a war zone, surrounded by countless enemies, and you don't expect a Quick Death to be an acceptable outcome?

Agreed. One thing about CZs is they can turn sour on you very quickly. Learning and practicing escape procedures can save both you and your bonds.

It seems counter intuitive, but I've found that High CZs are much more forgiving that Low CZs, as High CZs are a target rich environment for both you and the NPCs, i.e. the NPCs have more choices, and you can use that to your advantage by using friendlies to peel off unwanted attackers. You can also use the high density to your advantage by being the kill ship, that is, patiently scanning targets until you've found one that has been weakened by friendlies.

No mention of ships/loadouts here, as I've never flown a Vulture. It could be cream gravy, or a lump of     , for all I know. I do know that those buggers are hard to kill, even when their shields go down

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Exactly. The Vulture is great at turning, and good for Alpha damage. It's not good for beating a pursuit... especially in a Zone where ships and planets are preventing a quick jump.

A good trick for this is to make sure that you have a waypoint plotted before you start fighting, then lock the CZ to keep frame of reference. If you get into trouble, you can auto-target your jump and high-wake. It even works well sometimes to get folks off of you. There has been many an occasion where I cancelled my high-wake at the last moment because my attackers have found something else to do.

 

[Julio Montega]

CZs have their own rules, while you may be able to take on enemies easily with backup,
the newly spawned ships somehow prefer to target players close to them.
This is an ongoing issue, imo not reflecting ai difficulty but borked mechanics.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

it also felt like the npc's were cheating. they kept firing at me while i was boosting away constantly.

Last thing. Other folks have commented on the Vulture's inability to flee.

I'll just say that I've chased hardened targets 20km outside of the CZ (without realizing it), just hammering on them to get their hulls down to 0. My assumption is those ships were running bulkheads that countered my damage type at the time.

Which brings me to another bit of advice for the OP. When you enter a CZ, you need to nav to the outside edge of it (about 8km away from center does the trick). This not only gives you time to prep, but it gives all of the NPCs time to spawn. Then, when you engage, you're engaging from the edge of the battle, and will be less likely to be surrounded by bad guys. This tactic also works mid-battle... if you've finished someone up and need to get your bearings, continue out from the center. Being right in the middle of things all the time is one thing that makes CZs go bad very quickly.

 

[Some1else]

.... if it's true that you have to upgrade your ship in order to improve your surviveability, then i'd say that there's an imbalance there.....

Umm, sorry, but that's how ED has been from day one, and imbalance is part of that. You just have to decide which side of the scale you want to be on.

...i haven't even figured out how to do this...

You should give engineers a try. It's rather addictive once you start! And besides, The Aliens are coming! (And soon I hope)

LLaP

S1E

 

[zzzornbringer]

So - you're voluntarily in a war zone, surrounded by countless enemies, and you don't expect a Quick Death to be an acceptable outcome?

first time i was in there i made 500k credits and was in no danger whatsoever. then i got back because i got some missions to kill ships there and was killed quite rapidly. guess it's a matter of faction. one's super easy, the other super hard. dunno if that's intentional.