Are Nvidia having a Laugh??

[William J Smith]

Consumers are kinda to blame though, because some people will buy things no matter what price it is, despite it being way overpriced, hence making companies think (quite rightly) that they will still be able to sell massively overpriced hardware

We didnt have much choice as those damn miners bulk bought the cards forcing the price ever upwards.

But on the good side, with the release of this RX card, hopefully the 1080ti card I wants will drop in price into the 400-500 bracket at which point I can buy one for this box and retire the 560ti to the shelf

Bill

And get another 1080ti in a new PC when this box finally dies..... [big grin]

 

[Joe Akeem]

Looks like i'm gonna pick up a black friday GTX1070 then.

 

[Galaxias]

In the UK the Founders 1020 Ti costs 1099 pounds. In Canada it should cost $1,800 or there about because of the UK Canada exchange rate, but it ACTUALLY costs only $1,199.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/20-series/?nvid=nv-int-gcxxpn-56591

So given that it's cheaper to buy it here in Canada and have it shipped to the UK why not do that? Because it's now 715 pounds.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

I will wait for the benchmarks, I will wait for the prices of the NVlink bridges, I will wait for the new year. But then I just might get me two 2080ti waterforce, if Gigabyte make them.

 

[Galaxias]

And get another 1080ti in a new PC when this box finally dies..... [big grin]

A PC can die very quickly when accidently swinging a well aimed large hammer at it

 

[Morbad]

It has the GPU miners creaming themselves, as it is 'Reported' to double the hash rate of a 1080Ti even

It might be double that of a non-optimized 1080 Ti, but one that has been flashed with timing tables more suitable to mining (or using software that changes the GDDR5X timings on the fly) is already 50% faster on some algorithms than a standard 1080 Ti. Without new mining software to take advantage of the Tensor and RT cores, hash rates will probably be limited to the increase in memory performance.

Anyway, I don't think miners are rushing to buy these parts because they know new ones are coming soon and prices are at 12-month lows now. There is also a lot of uncertainty as to the ASIC resistance of many cryptos...buying tons of new GPU hardware that may be obsoleted overnight by Bitmain and other crypto specfic hardware makers is a big concern. However, if we see more resistance to crypto ASICs from developers, then GPUs could see a new surge in popularity.

Yeah I agree the 2d demos they've show look amazing. But unless it also works in VR

No reason it couldn't work in VR. I just expect there to be a fairly significant performance hit from the fancier RTX features, even on Turing parts.

As a shareholder, I approve.

That "realtime raytracing" thing has been a short-lived fad pretty much every time some compute technology like MMX, SSE, programmable GPU pipelines, or Larrabee 2008 had to be marketed, but so far straight out "cheating" rendering has always won with ever better tricks. I don't expect this particular instance to become much more than the usual vendor lock-in stunts like PhysX, CUDA, TressFX, or HairWorks; with any luck it manages to become something like Metal evolving into Vulkan and see niche adoption in a generalised form.

TressFX and HairWorks are just ways of tesselating fine geometry...they have proprietary names, but anyone can use TressFX and HairWorks will at least run on anything with powerful enough geometry processors. PhysX and CUDA are fully locked to NVIDIA, but CUDA was early enough and useful enough to gain significant traction.

Anyway, NVIDIA is using Microsoft's DXR as a basis for RTX, so it's at least not doomed to failure/marginalization by virtue of only being able to run on NVIDIA hardware. With all the hype they and MS have built up, AMD and Intel will have to give it some focus as well.

back to VR... IF it can run and still keep the framerate up (which for the record the rumours i have heard the 2080ti CANT) but IF it could, real time RT could be a huge boon for VR... baked in lighting cheats which work somewhat on a monitor fail in VR.

but either way i I think it will probably only be viable next generation.

Turing is the testbed. We have maybe 12 months, possibly less, until it's successor shows up on TSMC's 7nm process with dramatically more performance.

 

[Marcus Seldon]

Will it run the Pimax 8K?

Maybe? Well, it depends! RTX cards use raytracing which is another rendering philosophy altogether, very different from the current way of rendering images.

Will this type of hardware be faster than other cards? Probably yes, but we are not sure yet, we only have Nvidia's word for now.

Moreover to use ray tracing functionalities you also need a game that uses Nvidia's GameWorks which is proprietary and for now only supported by DirectX12, so there are a lot of buts for getting ray tracing working on Nvidia, the real question is: Will studios go an extra mile (actually a few extra miles) to support RTX? Not for the foreseeable future IMHO.

Personally I wouldn't buy an RTX card for the simple fact that the technology isn't there yet.

Anyway, these cards are expensive but hey at least you got Free Shipping (thank you Nvidia!) ehm...

Some fun facts about prices:

569£ = 729$ but the US price is 599$
749£ = 960$ but the US price is 799$
1099£ = 1460$ but the us price is 1199$

569£ = 630€, price in Italy 649€
749£ = 830€, price in Italy 869€
1099£ = 1217€, price in Italy 1279€

 

[Gortron]

....
Some fun facts about prices:

569£ = 729$ but the US price is 599$
749£ = 960$ but the US price is 799$
1099£ = 1460$ but the us price is 1199$

569£ = 630€, price in Italy 649€
749£ = 830€, price in Italy 869€
1099£ = 1217€, price in Italy 1279€

Without defending the ludicrous prices one thing that a lot of people don’t realise when comparing US to U.K. or EU prices is that US prices don’t include sales tax. They add it on when purchasing. They aren’t as different as they first look.

I think it is partly because different states have different tax rates but also because of that whole chucking our finest English tea into Boston harbour thing! They like to keep tax very visible and not hide it like we do in Europe.

 

[Galaxias]

Some fun facts about prices:

569£ = 729$ but the US price is 599$
749£ = 960$ but the US price is 799$
1099£ = 1460$ but the us price is 1199$

569£ = 630€, price in Italy 649€
749£ = 830€, price in Italy 869€
1099£ = 1217€, price in Italy 1279€

Maybe because Nvidia know that European graphic card buyers are considerably richer than the north Americans? Or that Europeans don't understand the eccentricity of Exchange rates.
I purchased my 1080 Ti last year for the same price as the new 2080 Ti is going for. Go figure, as they say here.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

Maybe because Nvidia know that European graphic card buyers are considerably richer than the north Americans? Or that Europeans don't understand the eccentricity of Exchange rates.
I purchased my 1080 Ti last year for the same price as the new 2080 Ti is going for. Go figure, as they say here.

It's because here in Europe we always account for local VAT in asking price.
That's why European prices seem to always be 20-25% higher than a straight up exchance.

I checked once, a while back.

Price for item $599
Shipping, easily $50
import fee 25%: shipping is of course included in value so those 25% are ($599+$50)*1.25
Fee for calculating and charging my import fee, $30

So in total it would cost me $842.
Most likely I would be able to find the same item closer to home for $820-$830.
Now, also taking into account like local laws, I would be free to return an item inside 14 days that's by law.
Most stores now has just upped this to 60 days "no hassel return".
If it doesn't work even outside warranty for such a product as say a GPU, for a period of time up to five years I would warrant a replacement of equal capability, so if say my 980ti broke, and they couldn't replace it with a 980ti they could send me a 1070.
This is also by law.

If that kind of legislation means they charge me a few bucks extra, well I'm ok with that since I know if my pc, fridge or TV breaks down in the next 5 years I still get my moneys worth.
No extra insurance needed, although they sure try and sell me that too.

 

[Galaxias]

It's because here in Europe we always account for local VAT in asking price.
That's why European prices seem to always be 20-25% higher than a straight up exchance.

I checked once, a while back.

Price for item $599
Shipping, easily $50
import fee 25%: shipping is of course included in value so those 25% are ($599+$50)*1.25
Fee for calculating and charging my import fee, $30

So in total it would cost me $842.

I replied with that post with my tongue firmly in my cheek

But yes, whenever I buy goods here most don't have the purchase tax included (13% here in Ontario), plus there would be a mark up of the price before tax was added. I shop locally for computer parts so I don't pay shipping, but that's a moot point as they've figured that in to the price anyway. On top of that there's the snake and ladder vagaries of the exchange rates. So the difference in price, although is less at the moment, isn't by much.

If you wanted me to send you one to find out let me know

 

[Dooguk]

Will it run the Pimax 8K?

Maybe? Well, it depends! RTX cards use raytracing which is another rendering philosophy altogether, very different from the current way of rendering images.

Will this type of hardware be faster than other cards? Probably yes, but we are not sure yet, we only have Nvidia's word for now.

Moreover to use ray tracing functionalities you also need a game that uses Nvidia's GameWorks which is proprietary and for now only supported by DirectX12, so there are a lot of buts for getting ray tracing working on Nvidia, the real question is: Will studios go an extra mile (actually a few extra miles) to support RTX? Not for the foreseeable future IMHO.

Personally I wouldn't buy an RTX card for the simple fact that the technology isn't there yet.

Anyway, these cards are expensive but hey at least you got Free Shipping (thank you Nvidia!) ehm...

Some fun facts about prices:

569£ = 729$ but the US price is 599$
749£ = 960$ but the US price is 799$
1099£ = 1460$ but the us price is 1199$

569£ = 630€, price in Italy 649€
749£ = 830€, price in Italy 869€
1099£ = 1217€, price in Italy 1279€

I don't think anyone is looking at running raytracing on a Pimax VR headset. Unless they want to make themselves ill.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

Maybe because Nvidia know that European graphic card buyers are considerably richer than the north Americans? Or that Europeans don't understand the eccentricity of Exchange rates.
I purchased my 1080 Ti last year for the same price as the new 2080 Ti is going for. Go figure, as they say here.

Everything is more expensive in Europe because we are taxed to oblivion.

 

[megadonkeyx]

£1200 for "soft shadows" - no thanks.

as a technology it is impressive for sure but it will be a classic nvidia hairfx type of thing, 0.5% of gamers will have this tech for the next 5 years so that's about as much effort that will go into developing specifically for it.

im sure once is affordable and mainstream it will do very good things but by then the early adopters buying the 2080 now will be on the 5080 or something.

 

[Chaz]

Well anyway, I'm sure the prices will eventually come down to something a bit more marginally sensible, once the tiny handful of gamers that can afford those early adoption prices have had their fill and the rest of the cards end up collecting dust on warehouse shelves.

Crazy prices though, and something's got to break really, as these kinds of massive price hikes can't keep continuing. A few years back I thought the £500 I paid for my 980Ti was a bit of a stinger. Then the 1080Ti's coming in at over £700-£800 seemed outrageous, and now this! It's just getting silly. When the prices start dropping below £500 again for something decent, that's when I'll be in the market for a new card again. In the short few years I've had my 980Ti, the cost of a top end card has gone from about £500-£600 to now about £1000-£1200, and that's got nothing to do with inflation or the cost of the technology. It's price gouging, pure and simple.

 

[EdzUp]

I play ED on my Hercule's monochrome card and it's fine lol.

Seriously what does this GPU do that a 1080Ti can't today apart from use more electric and make even more noise?

I'm going Xbox one X I can still play ED fine and still have almost a grand left from one of these GPUs and that's not counting the hardware as well needed to use the damn thing.

 

[Galaxias]

I play ED on my Hercule's monochrome card and it's fine lol.

Seriously what does this GPU do that a 1080Ti can't today apart from use more electric and make even more noise?

I'm going Xbox one X I can still play ED fine and still have almost a grand left from one of these GPUs and that's not counting the hardware as well needed to use the damn thing.

For games I only play Elite and Battlefield 4. Both can be played on older computers and graphic cards quite adequately, I have two I do that with.

BUT! My ´best´ PC has an i7-7700k processor and Nvidia 1080 Ti, I need it primarily for video editing (my job) and for playing Elite in VR, both needing as much graphic power as I can muster. If I were just playing games on a screen, 4k or otherwise, I would stop at a 1080 for years. So your needs are set lower than some others, also depends on a person´s wants and priorities I guess.

For myself, will be upgrading my main PC in March next year. Prices should have stabilised by then.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

Well anyway, I'm sure the prices will eventually come down to something a bit more marginally sensible, once the tiny handful of gamers that can afford those early adoption prices have had their fill and the rest of the cards end up collecting dust on warehouse shelves.

Crazy prices though, and something's got to break really, as these kinds of massive price hikes can't keep continuing. A few years back I thought the £500 I paid for my 980Ti was a bit of a stinger. Then the 1080Ti's coming in at over £700-£800 seemed outrageous, and now this! It's just getting silly. When the prices start dropping below £500 again for something decent, that's when I'll be in the market for a new card again. In the short few years I've had my 980Ti, the cost of a top end card has gone from about £500-£600 to now about £1000-£1200, and that's got nothing to do with inflation or the cost of the technology. It's price gouging, pure and simple.

I don't expect this gen to drop anymore than $150 over it's cycle.

So unless Nvidia is pushed, either by actual competition or gamers simple doesn't pay these prices.

They are simply going to keep laughing at their bank accounts.

 

[Strife]

This seems to sum up some of the comments in this thread.. https://www.extremetech.com/computi...ay-traced-hype-around-nvidias-rtx-2080-family

 

[TorTorden_VR]

This seems to sum up some of the comments in this thread.. https://www.extremetech.com/computi...ay-traced-hype-around-nvidias-rtx-2080-family

Well put.
Most other articles I have read so far is mostly concerned with dry humping the Nvidia's PR packet rather than asking any questions.

Thing is if say they new 2080 was even on par with a 1080ti or the 2080ti was 15-20% better than 1080ti for non ray traced work would Nvidia would have spent five minutes demonstrating this.

It's quite interesting they didn't even approach the subject.