are ship interiors never coming?

[thistle]

I do believe that Ship Interiors are comming

I suspect that fdev themselves don't really have a plan for ED, beyond what they are currently working on as part of EDO. And what they are adding/working on for Odyssey is the features they always intended adding post release, but over a longer timescale due to the Odyssey release problems and subsequent console decisions.

Upshot - I don't believe they have anything planned beyond EDO and it's updates for the next year or so (whatever they are), but that doesn't mean nothing else will be coming, just that decisions won't have been made yet.

 

[tanner1ie]

The Situation is as follows:

Community Manager Arthur Tolmie has in fact stated that "At the moment there are no plans for full Ship Interiors".
Which is not really as important as what he further stated:
"It doesn't add enough value to the gameplay loops, that is what is the believe behind the development team."
However he contradicts himself later by saying:
"I don't know. That's my thoughts and it's not necessarily Fdevs but at the moment it doesn't add any value ... "
Then he goes on saying the same stuff any opponent to Ship Interiors usually comes down to (which A. Tolmie unfortunately undoubtedly is one of).
Basically, it getting boring fast unless done properly, which in their eyes would be a rework of the entire game and thus not be worth it and that the walking would get annoying
(... even though one could just ... keep the blue circle and or a similar teleport-mechanic despite Ship Interiors ... ?)

This was on Jun 8, 2021. Just shy of three weeks since the release of Odyssey.
Check it out yourself:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0Q3QD0wZi0


NOW!
That alone though is definitely not yet the nail in the coffin that some would take it for though.
Simply because there is actually still a HUGE amount of hopes and hints left.

1. The fact that Ship Interiors were in fact promised COUNTLESS times over in the early days of Elite. (Braben is not the only one who makes decisions I dare assume)
2. Their statement that Odyssey is by no means the End of Elite but instead a "Set of tools" to build with, surely that means more than just one more type of Goid-interceptor.
3. The fact that even in this interview with Arthur Tolmie he did not exactly seem to speak from a position of a final decision done, just listen to it a few times over.
3.5. This might be hairsplitting here BUT he said "no plans for full Ship Interiors", that does not mean no Ship Interiors.
4. The wording of Odyssey's announcment "not included at launch". They could have simply said, 'not included.' Period. But they didn't.
5. The fact that Fdev could have, at ANY TIME, done a simple forum-post in the manner of:
'After careful debate and consideration we have come to the final conclusion of not including Ship Interiors, yada yada yada ...'
instead of merely a contradicting statement within a fairly well hidden Live-Stream with some CM.

Now, one could see this as Fdev actually nurturing false hope, as to not scare away potential customers.
You never advertise with what your product CANNOT do after all XD

HOWEVER:
In this specific case, that would be very short sighted if not outright dumb, for a fundamental feature such as Ship Interiors is not something you can trick your customers with.
(Roughly similar to the PvP-Arenas in Elden Ring)
And just like FromSoftware, I do not judge FrontierDevelopments to be that short sighted.

So long story short:
Yes I do believe that Ship Interiors are still comming, they will most likely won't be as fancy as some would hope them to be but nevertheless.
I wouldn't bet my soul on it but I do believe so.
Yet should they NOT come then an official statement on the matter in clear written form would be the LEAST that they should do for us.
And because I do believe that Fdev would in fact be at least decent enough for that:

I do believe that Ship Interiors are comming

Yes, wish they were, along with a "next gen" console release of the full 4.0 game and Odyssey, along with adding everything that they can to "last gen" consoles, full VR support and putting the Cobra mark IV on general sale, oh and World peace!! .

 

[Jack Winter]

After having been glitched out of my carrier I've done EVA around the carrier. It seems that EVA has indeed been worked on and you can both jet around and walk on the hull. In EVA mode I passed through walls and saw that most of the interior is just empty, but I did manage to get into the "concourse" through the carrier bridge front window and could both walk and jet around, also use my weapons but not damage anything.

This seems to suggest that they have been working on EVA, and if so we might at least get some interiors to raid, but not sure what form it will take. I could imagine maybe boarding what's in the maelstroms for some on foot pew pew (if we do indeed get on foot thargoid content).

 

[Lukaz_Chrom]

Yes, wish they were, along with a "next gen" console release of the full 4.0 game and Odyssey, along with adding everything that they can to "last gen" consoles, full VR support and putting the Cobra mark IV on general sale, oh and World peace!! .

You will never get any more Console Development.
You can safely assume that for the forseeable future ...
You will never get FPS-VR (Which I [as someone who has around 2k hours of VR-Time] can in fact somewhat sympathize with).
You can safely assume that for the forseeable future ...
(And who cares about the Cobra Mark-IV)

But is this true for Ship Interiors? Not from my PoV.

A yes, and just for you:

 

[Rat Catcher]

Yes, wish they were, along with a "next gen" console release of the full 4.0 game and Odyssey, along with adding everything that they can to "last gen" consoles, full VR support and putting the Cobra mark IV on general sale, oh and World peace!! .

The world peace has to happen before any of those other developments, you know that, deep in your soul.

 

[thistle]

The world peace has to happen before any of those other developments, you know that, deep in your soul.

2 weeks?

 

[Lukaz_Chrom]

2 weeks?

I'd rather make that a gaming industry classic
"Soon"

But I dare assume that Ship Interiors will be sooner.

 

[MacIntoc]

The Situation is as follows:

Community Manager Arthur Tolmie has in fact stated that "At the moment there are no plans for full Ship Interiors".
Which is not really as important as what he further stated:
"It doesn't add enough value to the gameplay loops, that is what is the believe behind the development team."
However he contradicts himself later by saying:
"I don't know. That's my thoughts and it's not necessarily Fdevs but at the moment it doesn't add any value ... "
Then he goes on saying the same stuff any opponent to Ship Interiors usually comes down to (which A. Tolmie unfortunately undoubtedly is one of).
Basically, it getting boring fast unless done properly, which in their eyes would be a rework of the entire game and thus not be worth it and that the walking would get annoying
(... even though one could just ... keep the blue circle and or a similar teleport-mechanic despite Ship Interiors ... ?)

This was on Jun 8, 2021. Just shy of three weeks since the release of Odyssey.
Check it out yourself:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0Q3QD0wZi0


NOW!
That alone though is definitely not yet the nail in the coffin that some would take it for though.
Simply because there is actually still a HUGE amount of hopes and hints left.

1. The fact that Ship Interiors were in fact promised COUNTLESS times over in the early days of Elite. (Braben is not the only one who makes decisions I dare assume)
2. Their statement that Odyssey is by no means the End of Elite but instead a "Set of tools" to build with, surely that means more than just one more type of Goid-interceptor.
3. The fact that even in this interview with Arthur Tolmie he did not exactly seem to speak from a position of a final decision done, just listen to it a few times over.
3.5. This might be hairsplitting here BUT he said "no plans for full Ship Interiors", that does not mean no Ship Interiors.
4. The wording of Odyssey's announcment "not included at launch". They could have simply said, 'not included.' Period. But they didn't.
5. The fact that Fdev could have, at ANY TIME, done a simple forum-post in the manner of:
'After careful debate and consideration we have come to the final conclusion of not including Ship Interiors, yada yada yada ...'
instead of merely a contradicting statement within a fairly well hidden Live-Stream with some CM.

Now, one could see this as Fdev actually nurturing false hope, as to not scare away potential customers.
You never advertise with what your product CANNOT do after all XD

HOWEVER:
In this specific case, that would be very short sighted if not outright dumb, for a fundamental feature such as Ship Interiors is not something you can trick your customers with.
(Roughly similar to the PvP-Arenas in Elden Ring)
And just like FromSoftware, I do not judge FrontierDevelopments to be that short sighted.

So long story short:
Yes I do believe that Ship Interiors are still comming, they will most likely won't be as fancy as some would hope them to be but nevertheless.
I wouldn't bet my soul on it but I do believe so.
Yet should they NOT come then an official statement on the matter in clear written form would be the LEAST that they should do for us.
And because I do believe that Fdev would in fact be at least decent enough for that:

I do believe that Ship Interiors are comming

The problem is that the speech is primarily about why implementing ship interiors would be a bad idea. Which is not really the speech of someone who would aim to implement it, even if they don't know exactly when, how or in what form. So, for me, FDev is more about convincing himself to abandon ship interiors without really managing to mourn this abandonment.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

The problem is that the speech is primarily about why implementing ship interiors would be a bad idea. Which is not really the speech of someone who would aim to implement it, even if they don't know exactly when, how or in what form. So, for me, FDev is more about convincing himself to abandon ship interiors without really managing to mourn this abandonment.

I could be wrong but to me it's marketing speach for we are not prepared to invest the manpower and money into the game that we had planned, or we don't have the chops to code it and so have reduced the scope of the game..... but we are afraid to admit it due to bad press so just say there is no interest in it instead.

 

[CMDR_Atrion_Laan]

I don't think they could have gotten any more bad press than what Odyssey brought them. People had expectations of ship interiors and something, anything other than the "gameplay" that came with Odyssey. I love Elite for the vast, explorable galaxy, but they missed the mark of what on foot gameplay was described as being in the early days. They missed it by a long shot. I don't even know what the point of adding ship interiors would be without reworking Odyssey. They need to add planets with breathable atmospheres that can support real flora and fauna. Stations need to be more than just a concourse. Most of all they need to come up with gameplay loops that aren't mind numbingly boring. Another thing that needs to seriously be considered is why there's no on foot 3rd person view. The screenshot camera is not a viable alternative. I mean do people actually buy cosmetics for their character that they can't see? What is even the point of that? It's so far from what I hoped it would become 10 years ago and they lost a boatload of money on Odyssey due to their poor design choices and pushing it out the door unfinished I don't know if it'll ever reach it's potential. I'd love to be proven wrong but I'm not holding my breath anymore.

 

[Darkfyre99]

That CM rant is infuriating, because it’s assuming the only way to do ship interiors is a bad way that will cause problems. A seconds thought or even reference to existing games would provide many options that would invalidate his passionate rant. Sad and frustrating that’s all they could manage.

Ship interiors could also provide so many ways they could montise elite which is important for frontier.. so it’s up to them.

To be fair to Arthur Tolmie, the people who are most vocal about wanting ship interiors inevitably point to a certain space game eight years overdue with no release sight, so it’s a natural mistake on his part.

 

[Riverside]

To be fair to Arthur Tolmie, the people who are most vocal about wanting ship interiors inevitably point to a certain space game eight years overdue with no release sight, so it’s a natural mistake on his part.

I've seen videos on youtube of that game with all the bugs & crashes cut out. It does look like it would be pretty cool to play a release version. I waited to buy ED on release too.

Sometimes I wonder why Arthur doesn't post here any more & during those fleeting moments consider whether it was PR fumbles like that. I bet it sounded really cool & assertive in his head right before he said it.

 

[amigacooke]

To be fair to Arthur Tolmie, the people who are most vocal about wanting ship interiors inevitably point to a certain space game eight years overdue with no release sight, so it’s a natural mistake on his part.

I inevitably point to the video of David Braben saying ship interiors are coming. It's really that simple.

 

[Jack Winter]

Can anyone please tell me what interesting game loops you actually expect from ship interiors? It seems to me that manually loading cargo, running around in the ship to repair it, manually reloading guns, getting into the medbay would be a chore and a waste of player time...

Personally I prefer to stay seated in my cockpit, buy the cargo and then take off without having to oversee the cargo loading, to run the AFMU, to click on the synth button, or to just pop a med kit.

I'm also getting more and more fed up with having to run through the hangar to get to the concourse, especially with big ships. What seems cool on paper might not be all that cool if it actually got implemented.

I suspect that this is what Arf was trying to point out..

I'd rather that they spent time on making multi crew better, adding on foot thargoid combat, space EVA and boarding of megaships or thargoid motherships, more dense atmosphere planets with animal life, more interesting xeno biology or geology, weather, caves, rockfalls, quicksand, or any of a myriad of other things that might make for exciting game play.

It might be cool if they would allow us to walk around our cockpits though, especially if fixing and expanding on multi crew.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

To be fair to Arthur Tolmie, the people who are most vocal about wanting ship interiors inevitably point to a certain space game eight years overdue with no release sight, so it’s a natural mistake on his part.

I wasn't thinking about that game. Just imagining the lowest common denominator, look at x-rebirth for the ship to station model, and elite dangerous odyssey, from the current armstrong menu, simply add another option to the cargo bay, or any other key area of the interior. They could simply do what they did for carrier interiors for ships?

btw carrier interiors are a really satisfying approximation even now. They obviously were developing carrier interiors at the time of the no interiors declaration, so noone at frontier had the mind to extend the pattern to ships? If they truly didn't frontier must have been so corprate with zero thinking outside a formal requirements document given to each staff member.

And they come out with one cherry picked white knight "dont need any more than frontier provides new ideas are hated" argument and ran with that instead.

Can anyone please tell me what interesting game loops you actually expect from ship interiors? It seems to me that manually loading cargo, running around in the ship to repair it, manually reloading guns, getting into the medbay would be a chore and a waste of player time...

Did you read the other post you commented on? Just looked at the date, read something i wrote, left a knight was here stamp and went about your day? Read the original post for an idea.

 

[Jack Winter]

Did you read the other post you commented on? Just looked at the date, read something i wrote, left a knight was here stamp and went about your day? Read the original post for an idea.

This one? https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/this-is-how-to-do-ship-interiors.580196/page-5#post-10047083

If so and the follow up posts before I commented made me think of hyperbole, whining, and wishful thinking.. Frankly it's the hyperbole and snide remarks that brings out the white knight in me, and not so much the criticism or wishing for a better game. Things like "Would the skeleton crew be working on anything else for once thargoid fps stuff is released?", "Also sorry to the people who stuck around for 2 years and continued to buy arx.", or "Frontier have always with elite assumed that the playerbase is dumb and dumber and just wants to kill things."

Or the original post (and follow ups) with the subnautica video of running around doing nothing but looking at stuff?

If so I've read it a long time ago and quite honestly forgotten what it was all about.

I see it like this, Frontier has limited resources and can't do everything. You apparently want to look around in your space ship and decorate it. Sure why not, but personally I think there are so many other things they could better spend their time and budget on. I listed some of them in the post that you just replied to. I'd imagine that running around and looking at stuff would get very old after a while, just like running through the hangar feels to me.

As an example I'd personally much rather have space EVA and boarding of thargoid motherships with on foot combat. Or that the bubble gets overrun by thargoids and that we need to scatter into the black to establish new colonies, maybe build our own bases, and later on maybe team up with recently discovered living guardians to try to retake the bubble and crush the thargoids.

I can agree with many of the criticisms of the game but tend to be more pragmatic in that I just accept what we get and try to have fun with it. Why be disappointed with what we don't have instead of being happy with what we do have? My personal biggest criticism is the handling of bug reports and the lack or slow pace of bug fixing!

It's a pity that the game hasn't come further and offers a much more fleshed out experience. To me personally it seems like a scaffolding screaming for being filled out with interesting things. IMO the scope of the game is already epic and it could be so much better. Unfortunately I think the revenues it brings in probably doesn't allow for a faster development and that they need to focus on a few things at a time.

I imagine that all our dreams.txt don't align with Frontiers vision of the game which seems to be just an arcade style space shooter set in the ambitious science based one to one copy of the Milkyway.

I suppose we could hope that the Brebus has retired from his post to take personal control and to invest say a hundred million pounds in finishing off what he started. And that he will succeed to make the best and most complete space game the world has ever seen! Still I really wouldn't hold my breath for it, and I hope that they have the revenue stream that allows them to keep improving the game according to their vision.

 

[amigacooke]

I imagine that all our dreams.txt don't align with Frontiers vision of the game which seems to be just an arcade style space shooter set in the ambitious science based one to one copy of the Milkyway.

Normally dreams.txt are light fluff, but not when a developer uses them to extract cash during a Kickstarter.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Or the original post (and follow ups) with the subnautica video of running around doing nothing but looking at stuff?

This one baffles me. Just recently I read a post somewhere here asking for one thing or another (don't remember, but it was probably attached in some way to ship interiors) literally saying "we don't need any gameplay attached, it is just for immersion".

I've told this story before: A while back I watched the VoD of an ex-Elite Dangerous content creator who since has moved on to NMS and Star Citizen; it was his first SC stream. He spent two hours looking at things and praising SC for how "immersive" it is and how there was so much "attention to detail", but the attached gameplay to all this was... nothing. Well, it was a lot of running around and riding a subway.

Most of the time he was failing to get anywhere or calling his ship to a hangar or taking off. At one point, he finally managed to call his ship to the hangar and spent what must have been twenty minutes praising SC for having a bunk bed in the ship you can sit on... and then do nothing. Well, not exactly nothing, sitting on the bunk bed he missed his launch window and had to go back, re-call the ship to another hangar, re-board and yadda yadda. Because the content creator in question was a bit salty with Frontier, everything had this special non-verbal hint of "see Frontier? This is how you do it! Stupid losers!" subtext that salty ex-content creators do so well. It was quite annoying, to be honest.

I would actually be miffed with Frontier if they spent development time for useless "immersion" candy with no gameplay attached. The walk to the concourse is already borderline silly. And I am still convinced that ship interiors mean a LOT of work and are not done just on the side.

But then comes the argument chain of "with ship interiors we could have this gameloop or that feature", and suddenly the "easy" ship interiors become redesigning the game into NMS. No thanks.

 

[metatheurgist]

I inevitably point to the video of David Braben saying ship interiors are coming. It's really that simple.

Did he say it was coming or did he say it was a fantasy he'd like to see in the future though? Honestly can't remember the video anymore.

 

[MacIntoc]

I could be wrong but to me it's marketing speach for we are not prepared to invest the manpower and money into the game that we had planned, or we don't have the chops to code it and so have reduced the scope of the game..... but we are afraid to admit it due to bad press so just say there is no interest in it instead.

I also believe that this is the hidden reason behind this speech. But this is a personal interpretation ^^'

Can anyone please tell me what interesting game loops you actually expect from ship interiors?

Tuning'em. And replace some menus that should actually be actions.