Are you upset about the Mobius attack? Are you unhappy about the dev response? Then embrace the Ides of March!

[GG7]

It seems pretty clear to me what is going on here. For the beginning, the PvP crowd has been advising PvE fans to stay out of OPEN and find themselves a private group if they don't want to deal with being attacked and killed, often for no other reason than that they made a good target to test someone's new weapons load out.

Many took that advice and PvE groups began to form. And despite claims by the more vocal in the PvP crowd that their play style is the only legit one in ED and that PvP players are the majority, SOLO should be removed, blah blah blah... The huge success of private PvE groups like Mobius are demonstrating what many of us have known for ages...

PvP IS NOT the most popular form of combat in ED. SOLO and Cooperative/Team play against NPCs are!

As the number of unwilling human targets in OPEN continue to dwindle, with large numbers of ED gamers choosing in favor of these private PvE groups, the more desperate of the PvP crowd have resorted to crashing the PvE parties and bringing the PvP fight back to those who made a conscious choice to distance themselves from that form of combat along with the type of player that believes in forcing that mode of play on everyone regardless of whether they like it or not.

I hope that FD steps up and does something about this situation. The type of behavior demonstrated by those who crashed the Mobius group and went around killing its members was truly disgusting and has no place in this community! I personally think those players responsible for that incident should be banned from the game for a minimum of 6 months!

If there is any upside to this unfortunate chain of events, it is the fact that whether certain groups of players want to admit it or not, PvP IS NOT the most popular form of play in Elite Dangerous, and those who assumed it was, or continue to pretend that it is, need to take a page out of their own playbook and form their own PRIVATE PvP group, where others who share their opinions on combat in ED can spend their time and leave the rest of the community in peace!

They can drop us all a note next year when their membership numbers maybe reaches half of what Mobius currently enjoys.

P.S. Since the XB1 version currently does not enjoy the ability to form private groups, I play in SOLO until I and my friends can form our own XB1 PvE group on ED.

 

[Faybs]

Hey guys,

I just thought i would pop on here very quickly.

Just to clarify the point that was made on the reddit thread a little bit more.

As we've said before, without question this kind of behavior is not condoned.

I can also confirm this is not us ignoring the EULA and it is not because we support any game mode over another.

Ultimately the action that was done (shooting a player in that location) is not against the rules, its the group rules that state they should not do this. Unfortunately we aren't able to enforce all groups specifc rule sets.

Mobius makes a great point which is quoted on the early part of this thread.

People are free to take any action and play (or not play) any time they wish. But as was mentioned already on this thread, I personally think it is much more about the wider questions this raises and in my mind its more powerful to look at things like highlighting and discussing how many players would love (and hate) to see an official supported pve mode, or as mobius would atest to, improved group management tools.

I'm all for a community movement and highlighting the wish and desires of a group of players, and frontier are definitely always listening.

If Elite had a proper NPC security response, then this sort of thing would happen way less often - gank people in high sec, get curb stomped; play in null sec, you take your chances. That is something you guys can do to help.

 

[Lustan]

I agree! Mobius can't protect his group. Fdev can't enforce rules in Private Groups. The idea is messed up and needs to be fixed!

Give private groups rulesets, limit their size for solid management reasons, and create an Open pvE mode!

Problems solved.

Glad to see the discussion has come to this point!

let's everyone not forget the point of this thread:


HATE THE PVE OFFERINGS IN THE GAME? TAKE A WEEK OFF AROUND THE IDES OF MARCH!

It would fine up to the point of expecting FDev to enfore those PG rulesets. I know you don't mention it so I just want to make sure it's not implied either. The PG's still need to be self-sufficient.

 

[excalibus]

Maybe.

You said...

- "PVP is killing ED."

Then when pressed...

- "By PVP, I mean non-consensual PVP. Sorry for not being clear. I should know better."

Then when someone said that all PvP is consensual since you've entered a game that permits PvP, you replied...

- "Are you saying the people attacked in Mobius by the SDC actually consented to it?"

Which seems to be saying that non-consensual PvP ie the type that occurs under an agreed umbrella of "no-pvp allowed" ie Mobius, is what's killing ED?

Hence me reading what you're saying as :

"But that means you're saying that SDCs attack(s) in Mobius are killing the game?"

I will say this... the lack of conseqence for what SDC did in mobius (and stated they are going to continue doing in other groups as well, and what other ganker / griefer types do in open has cost, and will continue to cost frontier money... Less money coming in... the more players voting with their wallets on this... the bigger the financial impact it has on the game overall...

So... in that sense... YES it is (if taken to the extreme where all players stop buying updates and merchandise from the store)

 

[duanedibly]

I will say this... the lack of conseqence for what SDC did in mobius (and stated they are going to continue doing in other groups as well, and what other ganker / griefer types do in open has cost, and will continue to cost frontier money... Less money coming in... the more players voting with their wallets on this... the bigger the financial impact it has on the game overall...

So... in that sense... YES it is (if taken to the extreme where all players stop buying updates and merchandise from the store)

The people complaining have already bought the game and undoubtedly a season pass. so they wont buy skins or something?

Lets not forget that mobius is less than .02% of the game population, that is a statistically insignificant number, made significant only by their ability to reply to threads on the official forum and whinge that someone broke the EULA when they actually didnt.

 

[Lustan]

This game is NOT about Direct PvP. This game offers no in game reward for doing it.

Direct PVP is a part of this game as much as any PVE activity. Sure you can experience the PVE parts of the game without PVP but PVP is most definitely a part of the game when you are in any multiplayer mode currently.

Then there is PowerPlay which most definitely has PVP as part of it's gameplay.

This game offers no in game reward for doing it.

There is a victor and a loser. The victor gets the glory of winning battle. That is the reward. If you don't PVP then you may not understand the rush of being the victor. Just remember that time you beat your brother/sister/relative at UNO and how much you enjoyed that PVP experience.

This game is designed as a PVE fight between people...forcing any type of change to go in a different direction will not make change occur.

Except for the part that is designed to allow PVP.

 

[duanedibly]

For you and me I agree. For those that can't be bothered to be roadkill...no. You are wrong to assume that much.

This game is NOT about Direct PvP. This game offers no in game reward for doing it.

This game is designed as a PVE fight between people...forcing any type of change to go in a different direction will not make change occur.

The PvP people are failing to understand this and are, and are planning to, curb stomping PvE players to make their point.

Now the PvE people have a date, a reason, and a way to make it clear to the devs that the current state of affairs is unacceptable.

I understand you disagree. I am not trying to convince you otherwise...just understand that people are not happy with the situation as it is shaking out...and it's because the people that are acting out fail to understand the game as it is designed...and are pushing the devs in a manner that they have already stated will never change their minds. I hope they kill thousands in all the Private groups. In the end...they are cutting their own noses off to spite their face!

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They do need rulesets so that they can play in the groups the way they desire. I also think that 'group size' needs to be limited...for management purposes. Which means that leaves a large scale PvE mode as lacking and would need to be added.

Where has FD stated that the game is designed as a PVE fight between players as you imply? Wait...another ideal you are projecting that you pulled out of your ass? Just because you want it, does not make it the intent of the devs, pvp murder all of this is intended game play features. Maybe this game isnt for you, maybe you should design your own game with your own rules and enforce it till the cows comes home.

As for PVP not offering a reward, I disagree, PVP is its own reward, it is fun. some of the best fun I have had in this game I was on the receiving end of a gank and made it out, exhilarating!

Its not that we dont understand mate we understand perfectly, its just that we dont agree with you, if everyone was in open,      like this wouldnt happen because you could hunt the gankers wherever they went, it would force better behavior because people couldnt escape to a private group or solo to trade and make money as most pvp players do now. there would be more people to defend the innocent from the bad small % or players who wish to murder and defending them would be much more rewarding.

 

[JuicerPrime]

I dont care how you play the game, Ill disagree with the way you choose to play it and argue that you are missing out on a richer more immersive experience by not playing in open.

Your behaviour on the forums however is what leads me to believe at your heart you are a petulant child. You are .02% of the population and demanding changes to suit you or you will boycott the game. Where do you get off mate? How important to the community do you think you really are? You are .02% of the player base you dont get to demand a thing and be taken seriously.

You are one of these people who live in their bubble and cant see out of it, i know this because you think its spring everywhere on the planet in march. Maybe take the week you plan on boycotting the game and have a good long look at yourself and rather than demand precious dev time be spent on your own selfish endeavors, hope that they instead make a better game with more content for 100% of the community, not just your private groups.

Because surely there can be no doubt, playing with a shining beacon of good manners, maturity and fellow feeling as this would be a richer and more immersive experience for anyone Another poster-child for the virtues of playing Solo, and let me tell you - in that regard my cup runneth goddamn over lately.

 

[Lustan]

They do need rulesets so that they can play in the groups the way they desire. I also think that 'group size' needs to be limited...for management purposes. Which means that leaves a large scale PvE mode as lacking and would need to be added.

It sounds like you're justifying FDev enforcing private group rules. Either you're asking for the moon and expecting less or you're just not getting that simple concept: Frontier is not responsible to enforce private group rules.... even if they beef up the toolsets to manage the groups.

 

[Gédéon_Lecanard]

Space is a dangerous place, if you want to be 100% safe from all players, there is an option for that, its called solo play.

Guys, we didn't know that! Well it's all solved then!

Thank you so much for your intervention, kind sir. Can you believe this? Thousands of pages on the subject and no one ever stated that before.

 

[Nuvey]

It sounds like you're justifying FDev enforcing private group rules. Either you're asking for the moon and expecting less or you're just not getting that simple concept: Frontier is not responsible to enforce private group rules.... even if they beef up the toolsets to manage the groups.

FDev already said they don't have the ability to enforce group rules. Sounds like groups are just going to need to vet members a little more.. or at all

 

[Lustan]

All due respect, your responses over the last couple of pages seem to be the petulant ones.

Because surely there can be no doubt, playing with a shining beacon of good manners, maturity and fellow feeling as this would be a richer and more immersive experience for anyone Another poster-child for the virtues of playing Solo, and let me tell you - in that regard my cup runneth goddamn over lately.

Can pot shots stop being made at the PVP community? They come to defend their point of view and everyone attacks them directly.

 

[Roybe]

Direct PVP is a part of this game as much as any PVE activity. Sure you can experience the PVE parts of the game without PVP but PVP is most definitely a part of the game when you are in any multiplayer mode currently.

Yes, PvP is allowed. However, as far as game mechanics go..there is no in game reward given for it...as a matter of fact...the only way people can PvP is to grind out PvE and make enough money to allow themselves the pleasure.

There is no PVP Elite track.

PvP adds nothing to the BGS.

With the exception of two mission types..there is no credit to be gained from killing another commander.

Piracy and Bounty Hunting for PC's are a joke...mainly due to the instancing..something that cannot change.

So tell me how this game is a direct PVP game that offers meaningful rewards from playing. (No one really cares about being 'the best of the best' when the process has no rewards for being so)

The PVP players are overplaying their hand in this game. They are failing to realize that the modes are never changing...regardless of their hatred of them. So they are running around hurting themselves more than anyone else.

Unfortunately, FDev has refused to stand up to them....mainly because the PvE people have let the PVP people push them to this point.

Now, avoidance doesn't matter...what tenuous social contract there was has now been declared null and void by SDC.

FDev has basically given them carte blanche to do what they will.

Doesn't leave the PVE players in a comfortable place any more...and this is unacceptable.

 

[Waldi]

Can pot shots stop being made at the PVP community? They come to defend their point of view and everyone attacks them directly.

When they come in and defend there point of view in a reasonable manner and not insult people we might consider it

 

[DanaM]

Can pot shots stop being made at the PVP community? They come to defend their point of view and everyone attacks them directly.

Kinda like being in Open, huh?

 

[Lustan]

So tell me how this game is a direct PVP game that offers meaningful rewards from playing. (No one really cares about being 'the best of the best' when the process has no rewards for being so)

You don't see value or reward in PVP so you assume no one else does. PVPrs do not share your sentiments. It's no different than setting a goal to be Elite trader or explorer. There is no reward for being Elite... just a symbol on your screen that no one else can see.

The PVP players are overplaying their hand in this game. They are failing to realize that the modes are never changing...regardless of their hatred of them. So they are running around hurting themselves more than anyone else.

Yet you're expecting FDev to make play modes customized to your liking?

FDev has basically given them carte blanche to do what they will.

Except that you can still remove people from private groups. Last I checked people can't get added to the group without asking first. Sounds like Mobius has a procedural issue adding new people to their group.

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Kinda like being in Open, huh?

Except here the PVP'rs typically get banned by the moderators because some of the moderators don't support a PVP discussion.

 

[Faded Glory]

Can pot shots stop being made at the PVP community? They come to defend their point of view and everyone attacks them directly.

No pot shots. He's accusing others of behaving like petulant children, in what seems a rather petulant and ill tempered way.

For what it's worth, I have no beef whatever with the PvP community, I'm not obliged to play with them, and I don't wish to take any part of Open away from them.

Edit: Just to say, I'm pretty sure Roybe plays in Open, and partakes in PvP...

 

[Roybe]

It sounds like you're justifying FDev enforcing private group rules. Either you're asking for the moon and expecting less or you're just not getting that simple concept: Frontier is not responsible to enforce private group rules.... even if they beef up the toolsets to manage the groups.

Currently there is no way for a group to not have PvP. Seems logical that groups should be able to set a flag if they want to.

Regardless of the capability of management tools...size is always the managerial enemy. For private groups own protection, I can see a limitation put on their membership.

If there is a limitation of size, to aid administration, then the only fair thing to do is to offer an Open PvE mode.

I have been an active member of this community since before release....and understand the devs and how things work.

I am pragmatic about any outcome that happens because of this thread. In some respects...I think people on both sides of the issue are outperforming my expectations...and hope both sides continue to do so. The game will eventually be better for it.

 

[Waldi]

It seems strange to me that the PvPers are not supportive on having a Open PvP or Open PvE choice. This would actually be beneficial as they would have a better chance of being put in an instance with other people who want to PvP.

 

[Roybe]

You don't see value or reward in PVP so you assume no one else does. PVPrs do not share your sentiments. It's no different than setting a goal to be Elite trader or explorer. There is no reward for being Elite... just a symbol on your screen that no one else can see.



Yet you're expecting FDev to make play modes customized to your liking?



Except that you can still remove people from private groups. Last I checked people can't get added to the group without asking first. Sounds like Mobius has a procedural issue adding new people to their group.

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Except here the PVP'rs typically get banned by the moderators because some of the moderators don't support a PVP discussion.

I see PvP can be fun...and have played and won and lost. The game fails to provide a decent PVP experience...by design. I'd rather play some old school Counter Strike than PVP in this game. In this game...I have to grind to much to comfortably PvP. Not worth it. If I'm going to grind that much, I'd rather do it supporting and growing a minor faction...I get rewarded for that.

No, I am not expecting FDev to make play modes customized to MY liking. However, the PVP people are failing on the understanding of how the game works...and their actions are only going to force FDev to have to change the game to a more PVE centric game.

There are some issues with Mobius' group and size...but that has been addressed. The need for administrative tools has not changed. The need for rulesets has been shown to be needed.

There is a strong case...and one that is getting stronger....for a PvE Open mode.

Again...we will probably have to agree to disagree

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Night all. Thanks for talking about this.

Remember:

PVE players take a week off around the 15th of March. Let FDev know you are not happy about the state of PVE in this game.