As a boardflipper

[sollisb]

X4 is a single player game and I'd expect to be able to turn it inside out, altering anything and everything as I see fit, on a whim.

Elite: Dangerous, irrespective of mode, is an online-only persistent multiplayer game with a shared BGS. Since no one can reasonably be expected to board flip (it's not intended gameplay, nor emergent content, but an unsanctioned..albeit unpunished...workaround to bypass actual gameplay some players dislike), those that benefit from it have an unfair advantage, and are thus cheating. If I were in charge, I would be permanently banning players for doing countless things I consider a matter of course in a single-player game.

There is very little you can do in ED that doesn't have some impact on other players, that's why there should be rules that are enforced. There is no such analog with single player games...one cannot cheat themselves and nothing one does has any impact in the slightest on other players.



Fair enough.



My CMDR has three NPC crew (i'm sure I've posted them somewhere) all of whom are subject to an 'employment' contract that they cannot cancel, which binds them to my CMDR until he fires them or has them die at his command. Ostensibly, they are compensated for selling their bodies, minds, and souls into such servitude...but since the contract is for a percentage of earnings, it's effectively in perpetuity.

I know some people prefer their euphemisms, but if that's not slavery, nothing is.

I have 5 accounts, which at any given time, I have 3 of them logged in together, helping to achieve whatever task I'm doing. I obviously have 3 different rigs something your 'average' player does not. Am I playing with an advantage? Is it illegal?

Do you use Dav's Hope to get materials and relog to respawn it? Do you leave and re-enter Res sites to gain a more favourable ship spawn? Do you use external sites to gain information not available in the game?

If so you are using an exploit and are a cheating other players.

 

[Stealthie]

I think what they now need to do as the next step if apply some of the same thinking they took towards signal sources. Remove some of the randomness so easier for players to get the rewards they are looking for.

Also, stop a majority of missions from tourist systems going to colonia... that really is annoying when your home system is a tourist system.

This is the type of feedback that will allow FDev to tweak the mission server usefully.

Dunno if FDev have any tools which allow them to get data about which missions people are taking but perhaps that'd be useful?

Seems like it would be easy enough to set it up so that the mission server "keeps score" of all the missions it generates and maintains a running-total of all the missions, of all different types, that people take.
Do that for, perhaps, a month and you're probably going to get some fairly conclusive evidence about the type of missions people take and what they ignore and adjust the spawn-rates accordingly - within the constraints of the BGS, obviously.

Off the top of my head, for example, I see a lot of >20kLy passenger missions, not just to Colonia but to various far away places.
I'm not sure how many of those get taken.
Seems like people who're heading out that far probably aren't going to want to turn around and come straight back to earn Cr10m or so.
Perhaps those missions could be culled so there's only 3 or 4 available in each passenger lounge to free up "space" for an extra dozen or so regular missions?

Similar thing with long-distance data-delivery missions.
If somebody's going to spend 3 or 4 days travelling to Colonia, they're probably going to be happy to spend an hour flying around different stations to collect DD missions to take with them.
That being the case, no single station needs more than 3 or 4 Colonia DD missions and that can free up "space" for more regular missions too.

Then there's wing-missions.
I understand that FDev are probably attempting to encourage co-op play but when you've got single-player missions that pay more than wing-missions - for much, much, less effort - that's likely to be a bit of a non-starter.
Perhaps this can be tweaked too, either by increasing the pay-rates for wing-missions to make them worthwhile or, if nobody's doing them, replace some of them with regular missions too.

To be brutal, I'd be willing to bet that less than 10% of wing-missions are actually completed by multiple players working together.
The majority are probably completed by single players.
If (and I stress "IF") that's correct, surely it'd be better to just bin 90% of wing-missions and replace them with single-player missions of a similar type?

Course, if FDev would integrate wing-missions into all missions, it'd solve a lot of this much more elegantly because there'd just be, for example, "cargo missions" with payloads ranging from 20t to 10,000t and it'd just be up to players (either alone or in wings) to decide what missions to take.


Anyway, that's the sort of stuff FDev could be looking at, IMO, and using the data they get back to optimise the Mission Server to suit player requirements without trampling all over the BGS or giving players an "I Win button".
It might also help if FDev published the data they gathered in order to justify the way they have the Mission Board set up too.

 

[sollisb]

This is the type of feedback that will allow FDev to tweak the mission server usefully.

Dunno if FDev have any tools which allow them to get data about which missions people are taking but perhaps that'd be useful?

Seems like it would be easy enough to set it up so that the mission server "keeps score" of all the missions it generates and maintains a running-total of all the missions, of all different types, that people take.
Do that for, perhaps, a month and you're probably going to get some fairly conclusive evidence about the type of missions people take and what they ignore and adjust the spawn-rates accordingly - within the constraints of the BGS, obviously.

Off the top of my head, for example, I see a lot of >20kLy passenger missions, not just to Colonia but to various far away places.
I'm not sure how many of those get taken.
Seems like people who're heading out that far probably aren't going to want to turn around and come straight back to earn Cr10m or so.
Perhaps those missions could be culled so there's only 3 or 4 available in each passenger lounge to free up "space" for an extra dozen or so regular missions?

Similar thing with long-distance data-delivery missions.
If somebody's going to spend 3 or 4 days travelling to Colonia, they're probably going to be happy to spend an hour flying around different stations to collect DD missions to take with them.
That being the case, no single station needs more than 3 or 4 Colonia DD missions and that can free up "space" for more regular missions too.

Then there's wing-missions.
I understand that FDev are probably attempting to encourage co-op play but when you've got single-player missions that pay more than wing-missions - for much, much, less effort - that's likely to be a bit of a non-starter.
Perhaps this can be tweaked too, either by increasing the pay-rates for wing-missions to make them worthwhile or, if nobody's doing them, replace some of them with regular missions too.

To be brutal, I'd be willing to bet that less than 10% of wing-missions are actually completed by multiple players working together.
The majority are probably completed by single players.
If (and I stress "IF") that's correct, surely it'd be better to just bin 90% of wing-missions and replace them with single-player missions of a similar type?

Course, if FDev would integrate wing-missions into all missions, it'd solve a lot of this much more elegantly because there'd just be, for example, "cargo missions" with payloads ranging from 20t to 10,000t and it'd just be up to players (either alone or in wings) to decide what missions to take.


Anyway, that's the sort of stuff FDev could be looking at, IMO, and using the data they get back to optimise the Mission Server to suit player requirements without trampling all over the BGS or giving players an "I Win button".
It might also help if FDev published the data they gathered in order to justify the way they have the Mission Board set up too.

Leave the wing missions alone! I can login all my accounts and get free credits.

 

[Stealthie]

Leave the wing missions alone! I can login all my accounts and get free credits.

Fair comment.

Like I said, I was really just offering examples of the sort of process FDev should be going through to decide how to optimise the Mission Board.
I'm pretty sure there IS a lot of junk on there which nobody ever touches.

Besides, if they sorted out "wing missions" properly, so that every mission could be done in a wing, they'd have to revise the payments so that they were equally viable for any number of players.
A "wing mission" that currently pays Cr5m would have a value of Cr20m and it'd be up to you if you did one of those missions alone and took the entire Cr20m or split it a number of different ways.

 

[sollisb]

Fair comment.

Like I said, I was really just offering examples of the sort of process FDev should be going through to decide how to optimise the Mission Board.
I'm pretty sure there IS a lot of junk on there which nobody ever touches.

Besides, if they sorted out "wing missions" properly, so that every mission could be done in a wing, they'd have to revise the payments so that they were equally viable for any number of players.
A "wing mission" that currently pays Cr5m would have a value of Cr20m and it'd be up to you if you did one of those missions alone and took the entire Cr20m or split it a number of different ways.

I know.. Just teasing you mate!

Wing missions are indeed a disaster. Maybe next year...

 

[Chris Simon]

Great! I'm sure you'll be happy to see Dav's Hope set to only spawn items once every hour no matter what mode you're in.

I've never been to Dav's hope, like I said previously and I believe that vast majority of players never even heard of it.
Even if I did (I'm planning to visit, because it looks cool), I'd collect what I would find in the time I was there, take some photos and then move on. Just like I do at any location in game.
I like flying the ships from place to place. I wouldn't like playing Main Menu, I believe.

 

[Chris Simon]

edit: double post, sorry.

 

[Han Zulu]

I haven't been back to Dav's Hope since the material traders were introduced. Just get a collector limpet, find Encoded USS, gather bunches of mats, trade to what you don't have. It's just as fast, if not faster and more fun than flipping at Dav's. Just sayin'.

 

[stormyuk]

Agree with the OP, there are just not enough missions on the boards.

 

[Chris Simon]

Agree with the OP, there are just not enough missions on the boards.

"not enough missions" or "not enough missions you want"?

Because the former is objectively wrong.

edit. To expand on that thought:
I think it's.. well... unfair to accuse Fdev of not giving us enough choice in missions. Because that's not how the game is suposed to work.
Players are willing to readily accept the freedom of choosing their own playstyle and in-game goals. Yet with in the same breath they are complaining that Fdev don't cater to THEIR playstyle that THEY chose. You can't have both, people. You will either be able to choose your gameplay and then it's up to you to fill it with content, or you will be restrained within the content the developer provides. Personally I'm glad Elite is trying to do the former rather than the latter.

 

[sollisb]

"not enough missions" or "not enough missions you want"?

Because the former is objectively wrong.

edit. To expand on that thought:
I think it's.. well... unfair to accuse Fdev of not giving us enough choice in missions. Because that's not how the game is suposed to work.
Players are willing to readily accept the freedom of choosing their own playstyle and in-game goals. Yet with in the same breath they are complaining that Fdev don't cater to THEIR playstyle that THEY chose. You can't have both, people. You will either be able to choose your gameplay and then it's up to you to fill it with content, or you will be restrained within the content the developer provides. Personally I'm glad Elite is trying to do the former rather than the latter.

A little more expansion;

It is absolutely pointless to
Deliver 10 Units of Sarcasm to Planet X Distance 4000 ly Reward 480,425 credits and a pat on the back, when...
Deliver 12 Units of Sarcasm to Planet Y Distance 98ly Reward 1.4m credits and a G3 lollipop

That kind of mission system is total horse manure. yet that's what we see day in day out.

 

[Chris Simon]

A little more expansion;

It is absolutely pointless to
Deliver 10 Units of Sarcasm to Planet X Distance 4000 ly Reward 480,425 credits and a pat on the back, when...
Deliver 12 Units of Sarcasm to Planet Y Distance 98ly Reward 1.4m credits and a G3 lollipop

That kind of mission system is total horse manure. yet that's what we see day in day out.

Well, to continue the line of thought from my previous post - if people are able to come up with a "lore" explanation why killing another player in vastly inferior ship is fine (and it IS fine, btw), they can just as well come up with a "lore" explanation of why two different factions are paying two different prices for the same service, right? I'd even say it might be easier. Yet for some reason, while the one is considered fine, the other is considered a hinderance to gameplay, and instead of spending the time in game by looking for the best job possible, like it would be logical, people complain that gameplay isn't readily served to them on golden platter.
Double standards much?

 

[Itania]

I'm not sure what does the justification you make to yourself for killing another player have to do with the issues of the mission system. You don't kill players for the same reasons that you do missions.

While some people may like to find their own justifications to do things, some prefer to do things for credits (or other ig rewards that suit them). I don't want to do a mission that will give me 5M credits in an hour (random numbers) if there is the same kind of mission that can give me twice that in the same time. It's frustating for me, not fun. While i understand and don't mind that you have to find the proper bg state for certain type of missions, at least boardflipping let me choose a mission worth my time. Solving this time/diffculty vs reward issue will certainly not remove the freedom of choosing that you currently have if you don't care about the rewards.

 

[Sterling MH]

I'm not sure what does the justification you make to yourself for killing another player have to do with the issues of the mission system. You don't kill players for the same reasons that you do missions

However, doing missions requires only yourself. Killing other players requires another player. One who has to agree to play with you. Therefore it isn't just YOUR reason to play that game, but BOTH OF YOUR REASONS. If their reason is "Not wanted", then you HAVE no reason to do it any more than they have a reason to find where you live and wake you up at 3AM.

 

[Itania]

However, doing missions requires only yourself. Killing other players requires another player. One who has to agree to play with you. Therefore it isn't just YOUR reason to play that game, but BOTH OF YOUR REASONS. If their reason is "Not wanted", then you HAVE no reason to do it any more than they have a reason to find where you live and wake you up at 3AM.

Well, i agree with you, that's why i don't see what pvp has to do with missions reward.

 

[Morbad]

I have 5 accounts, which at any given time, I have 3 of them logged in together, helping to achieve whatever task I'm doing. I obviously have 3 different rigs something your 'average' player does not. Am I playing with an advantage? Is it illegal?

I would consider this an unfair advantage and would generally try to limit one player to one active account at a time.

I don't know what Frontier's stance is on the subject, but limiting the concurrent use of multiple accounts is not practical to enforce, so I doubt they'd ever try.

Do you use Dav's Hope to get materials and relog to respawn it?

Absolutely not. This is exactly the same exploit as board flipping.

Do you leave and re-enter Res sites to gain a more favourable ship spawn?

No.

Do you use external sites to gain information not available in the game?

I doubt I even know anything about the game that I could not discover in game.

I rarely use external sites other than this forum, and when I do it's almost invariably information that has been sourced from the game itself. Mostly, I just ask people on my friends list if there is something I'm disinclined to personally investigate.

90%+ of what I know I know because I tested it myself.

If so you are using an exploit and are a cheating other players.

Which is one of the reasons I avoid doing such things.

 

[da_wae]

I would consider this an unfair advantage and would generally try to limit one player to one active account at a time.

I don't know what Frontier's stance is on the subject, but limiting the concurrent use of multiple accounts is not practical to enforce, so I doubt they'd ever try.



Absolutely not. This is exactly the same exploit as board flipping.



No.



I doubt I even know anything about the game that I could not discover in game.

I rarely use external sites other than this forum, and when I do it's almost invariably information that has been sourced from the game itself. Mostly, I just ask people on my friends list if there is something I'm disinclined to personally investigate.

90%+ of what I know I know because I tested it myself.



Which is one of the reasons I avoid doing such things.

Congratulations sir, you are a masochist.

Do you also ride a horse and buggy to work since the combustion engine is an unfair advantage towards horses?

 

[Morbad]

Do you also ride a horse and buggy to work since the combustion engine is an unfair advantage towards horses?

I retired the instant it was financially viable for me to do so, which was about 18 years ago, and I don't own any horses.

Regardless, I'm not a masochist for playing a character within the game rather than trying to game the game at every opportunity.