Sigh - these polls are so silly after a couple of days. The outcome is inevitable and 100% predictable. As time goes on, and the longer the poll sticks, the more responses we see in the "too hard" category. Why? Because people generally flock to forums to criticize or complain, not to bestow praise. And so, the obvious outcome is always - after several days - that the poll will be slanted towards "too hard". That doesn't mean that's how the bulk of gamer's feel!!! That's just the internet for you. Take a snapshot of the poll at various times and you'll see how EVERY poll like this gets skewed towards "too hard" over time. It starts out balanced, but skews over time. It's ridiculous. Hopefully someone at FD understands statistics and internet politics and disregards the results after a while.
'Attack of the AI' III
- Thread starter Ian Phillips
- Start date
Or it may be that statistics dictate that the players that are good enough to like the new AI are simply a very small minorty. Because it takes time to "git gud".
A 65% small minority currently.
And that's without folk being able to change their vote as they learn new skills.
im sure they do. and polls are imperfect by nature of the questions also. i had to vote too hard not because of the in combat AI but because of the ridiculous levels of the interdiction npcs i get. i dont mind more interdictions when i have cargo but they arent RANDOM level. its like all the npcs above my level psychicly know im carrying stuff but my mental defences at my combat rank prevent lesser ranked npcs knowing i have something worth attacking for! i have seen more dangerous npcs interdict me since 2.1 came out than i saw in last month of 2.0
Thats not what he meant. He ignores the large "juuust right" part. Or he counts it as "too hard". At least thats what i get from his post. I cant imagine any other way that he can read poll results and come to his conclusion.
Does the AI got any "target canopy priority" now or did I simply get very unlucky today? I've just returned for the 5th time with hull above 90% and a popped canopy. Kinda unnerving to fly (Mehet/Schwann) 1700ls each time my shields go down for 2 seconds. Sure, the clipper got a huge canopy - but having it popped *that* fast makes the clipper pretty much unplayable right now.
Might be coincidental tho. I'll keep trying. But I'd love to see something like "don't pop the canopy with hull above 50%" or something. It's not that I ever died from a broken canopy... it's just that being forced to take that break from playing gets kinda frustrating after the nth time in a row :|
By the way: How do NPCs react if we pop their canopy? Think I'll try that next...
I had my canopy blasted three times in a row last night. After that, I was done and exited the game. I probably won't be back tbph. This is getting stupid.
IMO the AI itself is still too predicatable/too easy if you are flying combat ship and are prepared/want to fight.
But there is other thing, which probably causes most of the complaints - interdictions.
I currently fly FAS, in which i have 16T cargo rack for some engineer-related commodities. I usually carry few of them, with total cost being lower then the cost of 1T of palladium. Still i get interdicted every second jump/every 5-10 minutes of supercruise time by npc-s saying some nonsense about "all those tasty cargo". Even though i can easily kill them or run, its annoying. It is a waste of time, an interruption which happens far too often. And i cannot even imagine how annoying it is for people who fly non combat-ready ships...
But there is other thing, which probably causes most of the complaints - interdictions.
I currently fly FAS, in which i have 16T cargo rack for some engineer-related commodities. I usually carry few of them, with total cost being lower then the cost of 1T of palladium. Still i get interdicted every second jump/every 5-10 minutes of supercruise time by npc-s saying some nonsense about "all those tasty cargo". Even though i can easily kill them or run, its annoying. It is a waste of time, an interruption which happens far too often. And i cannot even imagine how annoying it is for people who fly non combat-ready ships...
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I very much doubt that FD uses these poll figures to make decisions. They have far more reliable statistics regarding who is playing, and who is getting destroyed by NPCs.
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Do you let them get face to face with you for long?
They're absolute sods for taking out your canopy or weapons if you joust now and if you get face to face well... don't let it stay that way.
I have wondered if the AI have easier access to targeting modules than most humans do.
FD likes detailed feedback, not polls. They know what they are aiming for.
That's been in a Clipper too, or something with a smaller or better reinforced canopy?
I just learned I can't target the canopy as a sub-system on NPC ships. Meh. Now I'll never know - but I fear they'd just ignore if I break theirs anyways..?
@frostypaw
Eh, "for long" is a very subjective terminology. It took the last Asp/E about 2 seconds to pop my canopy after my shield went down. I guess my hull has been around 97% then an was 92% when I made the jump out of there. The Asp sat there with 5% hull laughing its fins off
The problem with polls is they don't really give proper results, Politicians have known for centuries that you can get the answer you want by how you ask the question. Even stats can be made to say what you want them to say. It also depends what is meant by "AI" do you mean NPC pilot skill only? Or do you mean the much bigger picture , why they interdict a player, why the Security services respond or don't etc etc.
I think the NPC pilot skill has been fine since 2.1 , the issue was the weapons they were using, having modified weapons and then as we all know the enhanced weapon bug. If I am flying an Asp, as good as it is, it should be hard for me to get a skilled pilot in a Viper or Cobra in my sights. They are more maneuverable and faster than my Asp.
Polls can be fun but they really aren't much help. The issue now for me is why so many NPCs interdict a player with no cargo, no bounty and no Powerplay allegiance but that's a much bigger project than just the AI
I think the NPC pilot skill has been fine since 2.1 , the issue was the weapons they were using, having modified weapons and then as we all know the enhanced weapon bug. If I am flying an Asp, as good as it is, it should be hard for me to get a skilled pilot in a Viper or Cobra in my sights. They are more maneuverable and faster than my Asp.
Polls can be fun but they really aren't much help. The issue now for me is why so many NPCs interdict a player with no cargo, no bounty and no Powerplay allegiance but that's a much bigger project than just the AI
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Yeah it depends too much on what they're armed with. The multicannon'd cobra just chewed up my weapons, the similar asp cracked me but didn't shatter - but that's about all he DID hit the sod. The next was a DBX with cannons i think, that was nearly instant when he got me face to face@frostypaw
Eh, "for long" is a very subjective terminology. It took the last Asp/E about 2 seconds to pop my canopy after my shield went down. I guess my hull has been around 97% then an was 92% when I made the jump out of there. The Asp sat there with 5% hull laughing its fins off
5% tho?
gotta try for the finish......
The only ship that I can fly now without getting my ass handed to me is my Corvette. Anything less and I get interdicted by a dangerous rank or above NPC that is flying a Cobra, FAS, or FDL. AI needs to be adjusted with the consideration that not everyone flies combat ships all the time. Fly my Asp Explorer becomes an exercise in running away.
I would honestly hate to be a new player right now. I've got 900+ million in assets to rely upon, but a new player starting in a sidey and still learning to pilot it - I can imagine he would just go play something else after a while.
Btw, the interdictions are still broken - some are just impossible to avoid.
I would honestly hate to be a new player right now. I've got 900+ million in assets to rely upon, but a new player starting in a sidey and still learning to pilot it - I can imagine he would just go play something else after a while.
Btw, the interdictions are still broken - some are just impossible to avoid.
Fighting an NPC shouldnt feel like fighting an ACE human pilot
5% tho?
Meh, don't remind me. I've just been overwhelmed by the popping sound and considered those 5% when I was already boosting away. On the other hand... that way I had enough time to get to Schwann, even with the interdiction that followed.
Anyways - I still don't know if this has been changed or if I'm just out of luck lately.
I don't think that new players have any more problems than before. As there is scaling based on rank they are dealing with harmless & mostly harmless NPCs most of the time. And these NPCs are still as dumb as before, it's around competent to master that you start seeing the AI improvements. Further they will not be expecting anything different.
Regarding the canopy. They can't hit what they can't see.
When you lose your shields, don't show them your canopy if they're in a state to fire on you. Turn away or get out of their firing arc. But don't attempt to stare them down, unless their death is imminent.
Oh. An afmu can repair any unpopped canopy. So try fixing it when damaged, rather than letting it fester.
When you lose your shields, don't show them your canopy if they're in a state to fire on you. Turn away or get out of their firing arc. But don't attempt to stare them down, unless their death is imminent.
Oh. An afmu can repair any unpopped canopy. So try fixing it when damaged, rather than letting it fester.
No that's turned on
I ran a little set of tests today for my own enlightenment. I wanted to see just how often I'd be interdicted doing some Imperial Slave trading between two high security Empire systems (Chujohimba and Pancienses). And I wanted to see if the ship I was in mattered at all.
I did 12 trading runs. 4 runs in an FAS, carrying 52 tons of slaves. 4 runs in an Imperial Eagle carrying 2 tons of slaves. And 4 runs in a Python carrying 252 tons of slaves.
I was also carrying 4 tons of Modular Interfaces I'm keeping for an Engineer, so those were with me on all the trips.
For each of the runs I filled up on slaves in Chujohimba, and then went to Pancienses to sell them. Then I went back and did it again, buying nothing in Pancienses.
I was interdicted 8 times out of the 12 runs. 1 Master. 2 Dangerous. 5 Deadly. A mix of ships, the smallest was an Imperial Courier, the largest a Federal Dropship. My combat rating is Expert, for what it's worth.
I was carrying no missions. I have no bounties on me, or even fines. I'm not in PowerPlay and never have been.
I was able to escape in each case by high-waking, and nothing ever got through my shields, although the Eagle was down to the last ring. So I did not encounter anything that destroyed me too quickly for me to run from.
I was attacked 3 times in the FAS, 2 times in the Eagle, and 3 times in the Python. The one Master I saw was while in the Eagle. So it doesn't appear that ship matters, at least from this limited test.
My conclusion is that the interdiction rate is way, way higher than it was in 2.0. I used to do a similar trading run between a High Security and Medium Security system, and I'd only see an interdiction maybe once in 20 runs or so.
So the rate used to be about 5%, now it's more like 66%, based on my short test. And every single one of the attackers was above my combat level.
Simple trading in high security systems should not be like this, in my opinion. I was able to escape easily enough, it was just irritating to be interdicted so often.
I find it all kind of odd, because yesterday I did nothing but run missions, all of which said "Hostile Ships May Be Sent Against You," yet I was interdicted only a few times the entire day (they were all Deadly). I've been interdicted more times in my short trading test today, with no missions at all.
I believe something is very wrong with interdiction frequency and attacker level. Your experience may vary
I did 12 trading runs. 4 runs in an FAS, carrying 52 tons of slaves. 4 runs in an Imperial Eagle carrying 2 tons of slaves. And 4 runs in a Python carrying 252 tons of slaves.
I was also carrying 4 tons of Modular Interfaces I'm keeping for an Engineer, so those were with me on all the trips.
For each of the runs I filled up on slaves in Chujohimba, and then went to Pancienses to sell them. Then I went back and did it again, buying nothing in Pancienses.
I was interdicted 8 times out of the 12 runs. 1 Master. 2 Dangerous. 5 Deadly. A mix of ships, the smallest was an Imperial Courier, the largest a Federal Dropship. My combat rating is Expert, for what it's worth.
I was carrying no missions. I have no bounties on me, or even fines. I'm not in PowerPlay and never have been.
I was able to escape in each case by high-waking, and nothing ever got through my shields, although the Eagle was down to the last ring. So I did not encounter anything that destroyed me too quickly for me to run from.
I was attacked 3 times in the FAS, 2 times in the Eagle, and 3 times in the Python. The one Master I saw was while in the Eagle. So it doesn't appear that ship matters, at least from this limited test.
My conclusion is that the interdiction rate is way, way higher than it was in 2.0. I used to do a similar trading run between a High Security and Medium Security system, and I'd only see an interdiction maybe once in 20 runs or so.
So the rate used to be about 5%, now it's more like 66%, based on my short test. And every single one of the attackers was above my combat level.
Simple trading in high security systems should not be like this, in my opinion. I was able to escape easily enough, it was just irritating to be interdicted so often.
I find it all kind of odd, because yesterday I did nothing but run missions, all of which said "Hostile Ships May Be Sent Against You," yet I was interdicted only a few times the entire day (they were all Deadly). I've been interdicted more times in my short trading test today, with no missions at all.
I believe something is very wrong with interdiction frequency and attacker level. Your experience may vary