Shields. You need decent shields.
If you're in a large ship, you have no excuses.
If you're in a small ship, use its maneuverability by trying to get behind your enemy whilst your FSD charges.
'Attack of the AI' III
- Thread starter Ian Phillips
- Start date
Shields. You need decent shields.
If you're in a large ship, you have no excuses.
If you're in a small ship, use its maneuverability by trying to get behind your enemy whilst your FSD charges.
Besides, if combat raking is not adaptive, but additive, you will ultimately end up in a position where you can win against nothing not matter what you do. In the end, you have to stop playing... or reset your save.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
At Deadly, Expert kills count as 0.25 of a kill - so, even if a player can only ever defeat AI up to Expert, they will (eventually) reach Elite: Combat rating.
I get that. But if the AI that is sent against you is a reflection of your combat rank, then having an Elite rating will mean that you are more likely to meet much higher ratings than you can manage... which in turn is what the problem for many people is now that AI has been ramped up. The Ranking is not adaptive and never reduces back to a level you can handle.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
As Combat Rank is probably more of an indication of time played rather than combat skill, I would hope that the game is not reliant solely on combat rank in determining the threat level of NPCs it sends against us.
I reckon that having added up all the evidence that's come in it seems it might rely on it a little too much, and is over-egging the NPC pudding a tad.
I left the bubble still running at >95% of attackers at 2 ranks or more above me and rarely carried any cargo. A little too zealous, a little too precogniscent and skilled - random attacks make more sense if they're from desperate lower ranks is all
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This thread had no official response, but seems to indicate that this is the case: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/261319-Does-AI-skill-scale-with-player-skill
plus a Google search produces similar assumptions that no-one from FD has yet denied (unless I missed that news.)
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
It would be unfortunate for the game if it was, in my opinion - as Combat Rank is cumulative and in no way dynamic (and never has been). Basically, at some point, players who cannot defeat Elite NPCs may find that their enjoyment of the game experience is reduced by being targeted by high combat rank NPCs.
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Mhh... you have a Python, one of those ships that can do Trading/mining and combat at the same time. You may just have to change some things in the outfitting.
No, you are to fix that item that randomly selects the rank of NPC put in your instance to catch you up.
I am in for a better NPC capability FD has implemented with 2.1. But....
this is to seperate from the computation which opponent is set into the instance to mix you up.
4 out of 5 NPC pilots Attacking you is wrong. The average has to reflect the average ranking of All (Players | NPCs).
(Ther average of Players is somewhere around Novice to Expert).
Regards,
Miklos
I'll believe it when I hear it from a dev...
This is a bit like the 'throttle is critical when interdicting' theories that came up after 1.4 was introduced and subsequently proved to be simply 'forum wisdom'.
I agree that this, if it is correct, would be very simplistic matchmaking. As you pointed out earlier, a player never needs to destroy anything ranked above Expert, and yet they will eventually become Elite ranked themselves.
The only rank matchmaking that I've been aware of has been from mission ranks that I've undertaken, and that seems to be working as intended. Not suffered many 'random' interdictions, but not really playing much at the moment.
Whatever FD are trying to do, my own feeling is that random interdictions should be just that, based on the likelihood of ranks that exist, and the probability being that the majority will be in the middle range. That would seem to be the most balanced and least gamey thing to do.
I think - based on my personal observations over the last week - that this is exactly what FD tries to do. To me it looks like the only Elite or similarly ranked NPCs in random interdictions was a bug or glitch or something unintended that got fixed about a week ago.
Could be completely random, but in the last week I got interdicted by mostly mid-range NPCs (from random interdictions).
Alas, what ever match making we put in someone is going to suffer. Picking from the distribution of actual levels would probably make the steep learning curve for new players even more off putting, and make the game easier for more veteran players.
Now we have AIs where you can tell the difference between Mostly Harmless and Elite well worth thinking about and debating.
Simon
Now we have AIs where you can tell the difference between Mostly Harmless and Elite well worth thinking about and debating.
Simon
I'll believe it when I hear it from a dev...
This is a bit like the 'throttle is critical when interdicting' theories that came up after 1.4 was introduced and subsequently proved to be simply 'forum wisdom'.
I agree that this, if it is correct, would be very simplistic matchmaking. As you pointed out earlier, a player never needs to destroy anything ranked above Expert, and yet they will eventually become Elite ranked themselves.
The only rank matchmaking that I've been aware of has been from mission ranks that I've undertaken, and that seems to be working as intended. Not suffered many 'random' interdictions, but not really playing much at the moment.
Whatever FD are trying to do, my own feeling is that random interdictions should be just that, based on the likelihood of ranks that exist, and the probability being that the majority will be in the middle range. That would seem to be the most balanced and least gamey thing to do.
That's curious - yeah my sane levelled interdictions started around then too, but not heard official mention of it
Perhaps...
But a random matchmaking will mean that players will only suffer randomly.
As to the game being easier for veteran players, it's always going to be the case that someone with game knowledge will have an easier time than one without, and players looking for tough combat can always take on Elite ranked assassination missions, drop into threat level 4 USS and so on.The issue with matchmaking a 'difficulty level' to an in game rank (IMO) is that it is static, predictable, and gives the player little or no choice as to how they must play the game. Just because I may have a high combat rank, doesn't necessarily mean that I want wall to wall high level combat every time I fly?
Making high level challenge generally opt in (and I'm not advocating that players should be able to opt out of all challenge) is in my mind the most fun way to play the game. Sure, sometimes random will mean that I will be faced with an enemy beyond my skills, and I'll run, but a player shouldn't have to run from a majority of NPC interactions.
Blackcompany
Banned
This sums it up perfectly.
Its now become your typical space game jousting session. Combine that with the gross spamming of shield restorers (seriously; who added magic space potions to this game, why, and how did you think that you make things more fun?) and its just the age old space jousting now. Elite combat was originally designed to FIX this, and now, its rolled BACK around to it instead.
The AI above about mid rank needs a nerf. Not necessarily because they are too hard. But because they are making the game unfun. And while you're at it, please, dont allow NPC pilots to use shield restores. Combat in PVE DRAGS ON far too long as it is now. We dont need to make it last longer. That's not adding challenge, its just adding tedium. Bullet sponges are NEVER a good solution.
Your are forcing me to use the "There is too much RNG in the game" defense
or
the "hard AI avoids the need to buff open rewards" benefit.
One of the problems when deadly or dangerous with the average based distribution method is finding NPCs worth killing outside of high intensity conflict zones (or that was my experience pre 2.1). However I like the idea of opt in and forced having difference distribution curves. Everything you opt into (combat zones, res, USS etc), so risk/reward is already a choice there.
Interdicting mission NPCs probably need to stay tied to the mission. Again, taking missions of higher ranking than you have is another hopefully informed choice.
Using a more lenient distribution for interdiction encourages or in some people's words makes possible the non-combat roles.
I think the above is roughly what FD are/were aiming at all that is left is balance based on telemetry data.
I think I am slowly coming around to the scenario should define the difficulty ..... with some RNG.
Simon
or
the "hard AI avoids the need to buff open rewards" benefit.
One of the problems when deadly or dangerous with the average based distribution method is finding NPCs worth killing outside of high intensity conflict zones (or that was my experience pre 2.1). However I like the idea of opt in and forced having difference distribution curves. Everything you opt into (combat zones, res, USS etc), so risk/reward is already a choice there.
Interdicting mission NPCs probably need to stay tied to the mission. Again, taking missions of higher ranking than you have is another hopefully informed choice.
Using a more lenient distribution for interdiction encourages or in some people's words makes possible the non-combat roles.
I think the above is roughly what FD are/were aiming at all that is left is balance based on telemetry data.
I think I am slowly coming around to the scenario should define the difficulty ..... with some RNG.
Simon
Perhaps...
But a random matchmaking will mean that players will only suffer randomly.
The issue with matchmaking a 'difficulty level' to an in game rank (IMO) is that it is static, predictable, and gives the player little or no choice as to how they must play the game. Just because I may have a high combat rank, doesn't necessarily mean that I want wall to wall high level combat every time I fly?
Making high level challenge generally opt in (and I'm not advocating that players should be able to opt out of all challenge) is in my mind the most fun way to play the game. Sure, sometimes random will mean that I will be faced with an enemy beyond my skills, and I'll run, but a player shouldn't have to run from a majority of NPC interactions.
Your are forcing me to use the "There is too much RNG in the game" defense
or
the "hard AI avoids the need to buff open rewards" benefit.
One of the problems when deadly or dangerous with the average based distribution method is finding NPCs worth killing outside of high intensity conflict zones (or that was my experience pre 2.1). However I like the idea of opt in and forced having difference distribution curves. Everything you opt into (combat zones, res, USS etc), so risk/reward is already a choice there.
Interdicting mission NPCs probably need to stay tied to the mission. Again, taking missions of higher ranking than you have is another hopefully informed choice.
Using a more lenient distribution for interdiction encourages or in some people's words makes possible the non-combat roles.
I think the above is roughly what FD are/were aiming at all that is left is balance based on telemetry data.
I think I am slowly coming around to the scenario should define the difficulty ..... with some RNG.
Simon
Nope, not forcing you to use any arguments...
Sounds like we agree actually. Players can make gameplay choices when they want a particular challenge, be it where they choose to go (system security will play into that), or what they want to do (mission ranking for example). Outside of those choices, random NPC interaction can be just that, random, and that means that sometimes (I'd say occasionally, as it stands to reason that there would be far fewer Elite NPCs than Competent ones) that will mean beating a hasty retreat, but more often than not it will involve actually having a fun encounter.
(This is all based on the 'average' player.)Scenario based matchmaking also enables FD to tie risk to reward (for example high ranking more difficult missions pay more than lower ranking ones). This is something that's been asked for by many 'hardcore' players for a long time.
I also think this is what FD are aiming for, but by the sounds of some players experience things have become skewed to where much higher ranked opponents than should reasonably be expected are being spawned for these random encounters.
