'Attack of the AI' III
- Thread starter Ian Phillips
- Start date
So, noted 2.1.03 is out, and logged on for the first time in almost a month.
And now I can honestly say ... the is over! The is over! Yes! No more consistent Dangerous/Deadly/Elite (D/D/E) interdictions with FDLs and FGSes and the like. Trying to combat the ships is still unchanged, but that I don't mind. It was the constant gauntlet of ships that was interdicting me on any mining or trading run, if I survived 1-2, I never could the 2nd or 3rd before I could get to the station. And I can now escape too. Who hoo!
The Python is still nerf'd, dogfighting-wise. But at least I'm not getting ripped apart constantly in it. I also did a little combat in a Vulture. And now I'm back in an Asp, and now just run. Dang the 6 manueuver rating of an Asp v. Python is no contest at all, the Python deservers a 3 or 4, max, in comparison to the Asp with a 6. Of course I'm exploring again, instead of mining and trading. But still, I can actually escape again. And no more gauntlets of D/D/E.
Oh, looks like all my 40M+ in insurance claims was credited back.
And now I can honestly say ... the is over! The is over! Yes! No more consistent Dangerous/Deadly/Elite (D/D/E) interdictions with FDLs and FGSes and the like. Trying to combat the ships is still unchanged, but that I don't mind. It was the constant gauntlet of ships that was interdicting me on any mining or trading run, if I survived 1-2, I never could the 2nd or 3rd before I could get to the station. And I can now escape too. Who hoo!
The Python is still nerf'd, dogfighting-wise. But at least I'm not getting ripped apart constantly in it. I also did a little combat in a Vulture. And now I'm back in an Asp, and now just run. Dang the 6 manueuver rating of an Asp v. Python is no contest at all, the Python deservers a 3 or 4, max, in comparison to the Asp with a 6. Of course I'm exploring again, instead of mining and trading. But still, I can actually escape again. And no more gauntlets of D/D/E.
Oh, looks like all my 40M+ in insurance claims was credited back.
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Great ...
Shame that. I was really getting a kick out of close calls running missions from my Python.
https://coriolis.io/outfit/python/2...j4yoo.IwBj4yNNSA==?bn=Nemesis (in transition)
Just good enough to take some on and high wake from others. Where have the "others" gone? Dunno. I was really enjoying the challenge. May as well switch out those missiles as there's little point in wasting ammo on the duds.
Well, if so this will allow me to keep playing. Good to hear.
(actually, I did some mining tonight without problems)
To me, the interdictions from non-mission, random ships are like the overland bad guys in most MMOs. They're not MEANT to be a real threat, or even a real challenge. They're more or less a time sink, a way to get loot (whatever form that might take, be it cargo, rep, or what have you). The main problem with the "update" was it made all those overland "orcs," "boars," and "bandits" into Raid Bosses. Certainly a challenge, but only to those who were vastly kitted out or who have great skill/experience. Everyone else gets wiped out if they try to leave town. The real threats should be restricted to actual missions or specific locales.
Thus, I'm glad they turned it back to "normal."
(actually, I did some mining tonight without problems)
To me, the interdictions from non-mission, random ships are like the overland bad guys in most MMOs. They're not MEANT to be a real threat, or even a real challenge. They're more or less a time sink, a way to get loot (whatever form that might take, be it cargo, rep, or what have you). The main problem with the "update" was it made all those overland "orcs," "boars," and "bandits" into Raid Bosses. Certainly a challenge, but only to those who were vastly kitted out or who have great skill/experience. Everyone else gets wiped out if they try to leave town. The real threats should be restricted to actual missions or specific locales.
Thus, I'm glad they turned it back to "normal."
One would hope once you get there you have the needed experiance to survive.
Unless they ran Sothis, got a Corvette to soon and were spoiled with easy game play until they hit a high rank and the big dogs got off the porch. I feel alot of players are simply in ships with ranks that don't jive.
The other side of that coin is you won't win every fight. At least you shouldn't. An Irish kiss and a bloody nose keeps a person humble.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Simple survival does not necessarily equate to "fun". Any player who can destroy Expert NPCs will (eventually) reach Combat Elite....
Two of the three paths to Elite do not require the player to fire a shot.
Of course. Knowing when to retreat is a "life"-saving skill.
Why can't a thread like this one, or this one specifically, be THE AI thread? Similar to how you have one megathread for Open vs Solo? It's kinda tiresome that so many threads on the subject (my own included) become a back and forth between the same people using the same arguments and counter arguments. One thread should be enough..plus I would imagine moderating one thread would be easier to, well, moderate, than several similar threads. This topic seems to breed a lot more need for moderator attention because it brings out some of the worst in people.
We have one now, but it's the boring kind where they just get stuck on trees and starve and freeze to death before they can do any harm.
Can we have an INTERESTING Zombie Apocalypse?
Pretty please?
(I stand corrected
How about a vampire apocalypse? Still undead, but with a working brain.
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Simple survival does not necessarily equate to "fun". Any player who can destroy Expert NPCs will (eventually) reach Combat Elite....
Two of the three paths to Elite do not require the player to fire a shot.
Of course. Knowing when to retreat is a "life"-saving skill.
Survival can be fun IMO, at rare commodity CGs, I tend to use smaller ships like Adders and Cobras, player pirates make it exciting and so does the AI. Don't need to shoot, but need to use F/A off and silent running to quietly drift from view.
If one is more combat oriented the AI would scale up with you as you progress I think, yes you can hit Elite killing nothing but Expert ships, but its going to take forever and you would certainly be robbing yourself of experience. People can always run from the high end AI, if they can't handle it IMO. A little bit of PVP will make the new AI look like peanuts. I know some players hate it but you want to learn the best, you need to play the best.
New AI only goes off combat rank to my understanding, which I don't think it should, as by the time you hit Elite in trading you either know how to pew pew or you know how to get out of dodge, there is no way someone put that much time in and didn't learn a thing or two.
They are still as tough as before, but I'm not constantly getting Dangerous/Deadly/Elite (D/D/E), like 3-4 intercepts on just a mining run. With a full cargo hold, I could maybe hold off one, but couldn't outrun much less survive 2+ interdictions. Those who want combat should go to combat zones, or at least a RES.
BTW, I heard they will only be +1 your level now. That explains why I'm seeing only Master levels or lower, as I'm combat ranked Expert (not by choice, just interdictions). And they aren't in high-end ships any more. They are more mid-level, or in packs of 2-3 smaller. I'm sure they'll still balance it, but for those of us not doing combat, just dying over and over was getting old.
Beyond that, the Python is still totally nerf'd maneuver-wise in 2.1+. I mean, both an Asp and Python are supposed to be 6 maneuver, and the Asp could run rings around even a totally empty Python. I'm back in an Asp, hoping to upgrade to an Anaconda in another cr30M -- enough to outfit it decently, with a several insurance claims as a buffer.
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Definitely been a nerf. I've gone back to fighting off and winning against Elite FAS with my Python. I should have to run from a conflict of that nature especially as my Python is designed as a combat smuggler. Before recent nerf running from that situation was a no brainer high wake situation. Now, I will take a bit of damage but come out on top... Against an elite FAS. I still get sent packing when outnumbered but that's really a bit imbalanced. Had I been in my combat FAS the NPC would have been downed without a challenge. For the record, I'm not all that good and had I been in the same Python and it had been a player in the FAS I would have had to high wake out and even then, possibly not made it in time. The elite NPC should represent player level threat.
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Since when is the Python a combat-smuggler?
And what good would a combat smuggler even be if it can't compete in combat against a ship that has weaker shields, fewer hardpoints, and fewer internals, if much more maneuverable?
Like...why would you expect to *lose*?
You even took some damage before coming out on top!
I don't think you want challenge.
You want raw punishing adversity.
And I think that's nuts.
(And I really don't comprehend how you go from "I'm able to win against this Elite FAS" to "I'm not all that good". Huh? What's preventing you from being an Elite pilot if you want to be? Good grief.)
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I concur. A huge nerf at the high end. I also agree that Elite NPCs should be at least as deadly as a decent human player. Right now ALL combat is just a participation prize. I feel like nothing I do matters. So depressing and demoralizing.
There is not point to having a combat build anymore, and likewise there is definitely no point to engineer upgrades.
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FAS is a dedicated combat ship. I'd you'd like, come at me with any Python build you like. ANY. I will smash it in my FAS. If you shield and hull tank enough it might take me a little longer but that's it. Python is a multipurpose ship. I set mine up as a combat smuggler. It can take on some lesser threats but that is not its primary purpose. Getting goods from a to b safely is how I've set mine up. It can also be set up for any number of tasks but as they say, jack of all trades, master of none. FAS is a monster. You think smaller shields will make a bit of difference on a ship that's faster, nimbler and more heavily armoured? OK, then.
Edit: my point is I'm not that good and an elite FAS should send me packing. I wouldn't stand a chance in hell against a player in an FAS if I were in my Python and even in my FAS a good PVP player in his FAS will own me...
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