Autocannons as a replacement for Class 3-4 multicannons

Shanaeri

Shanaeri
When Sandro was talking about a 'boom boom' sound and gun action I think he was thinking more of the British WW2 'pom pom' I have to admit it's an awesome sound. I can just see it mounted on a python or a conda, and on a Vulture it'd be :O

[video]https://youtu.be/6KsXYK_CNoQ[/video]
 

Beardless

Beardless
Vasious said:
You do see Federal Naval vessels and Imperial Naval vessels about, in addition to the System Authority vessels
The only difference is the Naval vessels lack any livery, but have similar load outs -> interdictors but lack KWS and the same weapons

Conversely that doesn't counter your point, a civy could have a 1911, a police a 1911, a soldier a 1911, but the soldier could have other toys too
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It is true civies should have access to various weapons for bounty hunting professions and defence, but I feel military should have superior firepower/outfitting and be feared, what's the point of military when you could outsource through cooperations to civilians, never thought a civilian could buy a plasma accelerator lol

In terms of content and progression, dare I say that with the exception of a few ships everything just costs credits?
I wonder if star citizen will have such a cold and uninspired system
 

Star-Hunter

S
Vasious said:
You do see Federal Naval vessels and Imperial Naval vessels about, in addition to the System Authority vessels
The only difference is the Naval vessels lack any livery, but have similar load outs -> interdictors but lack KWS and the same weapons

Conversely that doesn't counter your point, a civy could have a 1911, a police a 1911, a soldier a 1911, but the soldier could have other toys too
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My point exactly. Also you have no way of checking if a military vessel has a weapon that is superior to the commertial ones (for example, a military pulse laser that is 20% more heat efficient than what you can buy)

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Rich Bramwell said:
While there are disreputable arms dealers in the world/Milky way/Galaxy.....there will always be underground markets for operators who wish to purchase or steal Military hardware. I am a Midshipman...not a high enough rank to maybe get hold of a Federal Corvette through legal shipyards even with the high credits price it will cost, although through rank progression I think you should be able to end up at an officers rank that is high enough to purchase nearly everything to nukes, though excluding bio-warfare from reputable dealers. There should also be a route to gain/buy/steal Military weapons through the ''underworld'' I feel too, especially since not every player would wish to gain rank within a faction just to gain Military weapons/modules.
Since the invention of rules to keep heavy weapons out of the hands of civilians many hundreds of years ago to stop rebellions, there has also been a number of civilians who would actively stockpile large quantities of Military weapons because of mistrust of their government or just the ability to sell them for vastly over-inflated prices to people who the government would rather not own them......I do not see this changing in the next 1000 years, simply because of the greed of man or any other alien race that has an economy to run.
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Im pretty sure that is going to be introduced. they just dont want to rush-it, until the baseline commertial weapons are balanced out
 

Star-Hunter

S
Shanaeri said:
When Sandro was talking about a 'boom boom' sound and gun action I think he was thinking more of the British WW2 'pom pom' I have to admit it's an awesome sound. I can just see it mounted on a python or a conda, and on a Vulture it'd be :O

[video]https://youtu.be/6KsXYK_CNoQ[/url]
Click to expand...
The pom pom is in fact the direct predecesor of the QF 40mm BOFORS
 

Star-Hunter

S
Sandro Sammarco said:
Hello Commander Kaeldian!

The only issue with a multiple barrel/weapon setup up is that I suspect the idea behind it would be to effectively increase the fire rate of the platform, which would possibly make the weapon more comparable to a very large multi-cannon.

What I find attractive about these weapons is that they potentially fit a role between cannons and multi-cannons and could feel reasonable different to both.

Of course, I've no problem with a weapon that happens to feature multiple barrels, as long as the overall fire rate could retain a paced, signature "boom, boom, boom, boom" feel.
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well, i realized there is already a projectile weapon that can be "Burst Fired" the Fragment cannon (basically a full auto shotgun), so i mounted one to a C3 hardpoint of my Federal Dropship to try out Burst firing and simulate the intended feel of the Auto-Cannon.

BUT by god that thing is terrifying!
I tried C1s a long time ago and found them pretty useless, so i never bothered with them until now.

A three round Burst from the C3 can take out
60% of the Powerplant AND
20% from Hull
on an Elite Anaconda
all you have to do is get close enough and vaguely point your guns at the power-plant

The damage might be reasonable given the lowish amount of ammo
but the armour penetration is insane for what is basically a scatter gun

I dont know if you are still following the thread, probably not, but if you do I would like to know if this is intended

P.S. the feel of a burst firing cannon is actually pretty awesome (i like it more than i expected) and it would be a pretty useful weapon on FD
 

Julio Montega

Julio Montega
Star-Hunter said:
Im wondering if it would be possible to introduce Autocannons for C3-C4 hardpoints

Large multicannons were dropped because they were unbalanced, and i think large caliber machine guns would be "unrealistic"

but given that multicanons in game represent AA and historically, machine guns were surpassed by autocannons such as the 40mm BOFORS

What i propose:

C3 autocannons -similar properties as C2 (regular) cannon but
-with a 5 round burst fire (similar to burst laser - full burst is fired in rapid succession)
-worse accuracy than C3 cannon (as in wider projectile spread)
- much higher muzzle velocity + comparatively higher armor penetration
- much lower damage/shot potential (although burst damage should be similar to one C3 cannon shot)
- better target tracking for turreted/gimbaled mounts (faster weapon turn rate / better target acquisition)

it could even use the C2 cannon model with minor modifications such as an added reloading mechanism with ammo-boxes to fill up the large hardpoint´s space

C3 class could look something like this
View attachment 24117
and for C4 something similar to this would be perfect
View attachment 24115

similar proposals:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=131610&p=2015529#post2015529
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Yes, yes,yes!
More Dakka!

I'd love to see a continuation of established weapon types
across the hardpoint classes, like this great idea.
 

adflet

A
Thinking outside the box, what if you could buy some sort of module that could combine 2x cannons and turn them into an auto cannon? eg You've got 2x cannons on 2 hardpoints, you buy this new module and it turns your two cannons into auto cannons. Ditto if you've got 4x cannons on 4 hardpoints, buy a more expensive module and they all sync together for an autocannon featuring your four cannons. 2x would have a slower fire rate, 4x a faster one. The reload time of your cannons wouldn't change, so that would dictate the fire rate.
 

Star-Hunter

S
adflet said:
Thinking outside the box, what if you could buy some sort of module that could combine 2x cannons and turn them into an auto cannon? eg You've got 2x cannons on 2 hardpoints, you buy this new module and it turns your two cannons into auto cannons. Ditto if you've got 4x cannons on 4 hardpoints, buy a more expensive module and they all sync together for an autocannon featuring your four cannons. 2x would have a slower fire rate, 4x a faster one. The reload time of your cannons wouldn't change, so that would dictate the fire rate.
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The problem is that cannons and auto-cannons work significantly differently. Like comparing Bolt-Action with gas-powered semi-automatic

What you are suggesting would be Massed Voley fire (think broadsides just forward :))
 

B33 ENN

B33 ENN
A friend on the classic Steam forums pointed me to this thread after I've been giving them my feedback there of various facets of the game, specifically flying and fighting the ships, and in this particular case, the Vulture, and my overall disappointment with it. I've gone into some detail on that but covered it with a spoiler to get to the point quicker and remain on topic.

From the Vulture, I was hoping for a bigger Eagle. However, it's a ship that seems like it started out well on paper, and then the developers realised it was too potent, and wanted to gimp it. So it has the maneouvrability of an Eagle. but not the versatility in hardpoints. The two large hardpoints are limited by the giving the ship an Class 4 reactor; and, for some reason, the ship isn't very fast either. The result is and artificial design, rather than something realistic. Unlike the ships below it, it's more like a boutique ship with a price tag to match, rather than practically functional.

Regardless, I've tried to work with the two hardpoints to get a good balance, like I have on my Eagle, Viper and Cobra, but it's been further limited by not providing a Class 3 Multi-Canon. As it is, there are really only two loadout combinations: dual Class 3 Pulse/Burst Lasers, or one laser and something else you swap around according to need. The Class 3 Canon on its own lacks the fire rate to be flexible against small to medium targets, so the best general combination I can come up with to make it useful to me is the laser on one side and a Class 3 Fragment Canon, but the limited ammunition in that again ruins the potential of the ship.

Reading this thread my suspicion as to why has there are so many limitations has been confirmed: this is an intentional balancing decision, and in my opinion, a poor way to solve the problem. A better way to deal with it would have been to make the Vulture a ship with 3 medium hardpoints; two on the side, one in the middle on the spine above the cockpit.

As it is, therefore, I think the OP's suggestion of some intermediate "Auto-Canon" to improve its flexibility in anti-hull performance is absolutely necessary. If I had something like the other posters in the thread have been showing in examples of real world weapons - basically a Canon with burst fire mode of half a dozen shells - then it might be ship I'd enjoy flying.

Otherwise, I find my Cobra a much better and more versatile ship with which I can get better results in a RES. Given the difference in price, that shouldn't be the case. The entire system currently where single top level upgrades can cost you several times the price of the ship is unrealistic and deliberate towards grinding. So if you are willing to do that, I don't see why then the ships and hardpoints should be gimped for some arbitrary idea of fairness?

Rich Bramwell said:
While I agree in theory that the Auto cannon is needed to fill a slot between said cannon and multi cannons. I would still prefer to see the procedural weapon/module code to be worked on rather than just ''plugging the gaps'' in the current ships weapon selection. This would effectively add hundreds perhaps thousands of variations of weapon/module that would encompass Alien technology too I feel. To have some items in the galaxy that feel rare, they have to be rare, when the current variety is available to me fairly easily because there is a fixed amount of starter weapons/modules that all I need is credits and a couple of hours to search for them, it leaves me thinking the only true way to add depth to the ships load-outs is to put the time into the code for the procedural system......just my ramblings.
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I've mentioned it elsewhere on these forums and on Steam, that I feel this game would benefit greatly from a Borderlands style procedurally generated weapon mechanic, using a few distinct manufacturers with certain qualities, similar to what the ships have. So you might get a budget manufacturer with low reliability, a military grade manufacturer (like the Lance & Ferman military laser from the old game), an exotic technology manufacturer, and so on. Depending on systems you visit, and who controls them, their culture or allegience, you can buy different manufacturer items. Those might have different pros and cons modifiers to a standard type, more or less like in Borderlands, but changed to apply to this game effectively.
 
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lefty1117

L
B33 ENN said:
I've mentioned it elsewhere on these forums and on Steam, that I feel this game would benefit greatly from a Borderlands style procedurally generated weapon mechanic, using a few distinct manufacturers with certain qualities, similar to what the ships have. So you might get a budget manufacturer with low reliability, a military grade manufacturer (like the Lance & Ferman military laser from the old game), an exotic technology manufacturer, and so on. Depending on systems you visit, and who controls them, their culture or allegience, you can buy different manufacturer items. Those might have different pros and cons modifiers to a standard type, more or less like in Borderlands, but changed to apply to this game effectively.
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Apparently a loot system is being looked at, it's on the radar though we don't know if in active development yet. it's needed not just for weapon balance and variety, but as a reward incentive on the mission system, tied into Powers and faction rewards, tied into potential housing or ship exterior customization, etc. It's sort of a lynchpin that's needed to enable the game to go in a number of different directions. I hope we start hearing about this soon.
 

B33 ENN

B33 ENN
lefty1117 said:
Apparently a loot system is being looked at, it's on the radar though we don't know if in active development yet. it's needed not just for weapon balance and variety, but as a reward incentive on the mission system, tied into Powers and faction rewards, tied into potential housing or ship exterior customization, etc. It's sort of a lynchpin that's needed to enable the game to go in a number of different directions. I hope we start hearing about this soon.
Click to expand...

Yes, I hope they are taking such suggestion seriously.

One of the things that sticks out glaringly is that I can never pick up flotsam because it's classed as Illicit Cargo (stolen) and not salvage. For me, currently making my living protecting miners in RES zones from pirates, this means I often have to leave behind a lot stuff or risk being scanned by my Allies as a criminal for taking it!

My only worry is that their focus on new features like first-person view and planet landings will mean things like this get left behind, never to be elaborated on.
 

Arsen Cross

Arsen Cross
I like this idea. Obviously it would need to be properly balanced, but as it is now there is absolutely no reason to use a projectile weapon in a large or class 4 mount in my opinion. I fly a 284m Python. I'd rather equip a plasma accelerator than any of the current projectile weapons.
 
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