Avoiding Group Control...

[JeffRyan]

It probably will but it has some unfortunate side-effects...don't like a player, out them as a GS member. So we'll all have to be careful....

Indeed.

It's one of the troubling aspects of this particular topic. On one hand people see threads like this as causing panic and scaremongering. And on the other hand not addressing the issue and leaving the community living in ignorant bliss until the [redacted] hits the fan is probably worse.

I think the overall goal of threads like this and one of the nicer outcomes of this thread has been the 'how might they do it' and 'why that won't work'.

Education is half the battle. And at the end of the day, they're just people. And some of them are nice decent people as well.

 

[Meritz]

I'm still not sure why the Goons are such a problem? As far as I know, they play Eve like anyone else. Yeah, they took space, so what? Before them it was BOB about to destroy the universe by taking it over, before BOB I don't know... Phil?

 

[Olrik]

The Mittani has said that their tactic to win is "to make the game so miserable to play for the opposition that they just don't bother logging in any more"

Link, please..

 

[OillyRag]

I'm still not sure why the Goons are such a problem? As far as I know, they play Eve like anyone else. Yeah, they took space, so what?

I think we should be wary of any group or organization that try's to break the one man in his ship against the galaxy mentality that is at the heart of Elite.

And as I've seen you argue with some passion for the very group and clan mechanics that would make a goon invasion possible i'm sure you will understand if i take your words with a health warning.

 

[Olrik]

Note 2: I would help lead a resistance...

That´s funny...

 

[OillyRag]

That´s funny...

I agree .. it made me smile too

no ego's, sorry i meant leaders required thanks

 

[NoirWolf]

Link, please..

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/04/07/eve-online-audience-with-the-king-of-space/
Old but works.

I think we should be wary of any group or organization that try's to break the one man in his ship against the galaxy mentality that is at the heart of Elite.

And as I've seen you argue with some passion for the very group and clan mechanics that would make a goon invasion possible i'm sure you will understand if i take your words with a health warning.

Yes because fighting alone without any organization vs a group which has a cohesive and well oiled group psyche is gonna work out so well. Oh and goons can form their guild using 3rd party methods and are likely gonna be way ahead regardless.

 

[Meritz]

I think we should be wary of any group or organization that try's to break the one man in his ship against the galaxy mentality that is at the heart of Elite.

And as I've seen you argue with some passion for the very group and clan mechanics that would make a goon invasion possible i'm sure you will understand if i take your words with a health warning.

Well, I said what I said because that's inevitable, guilds or no guilds.

And what "one man against the galaxy" - that's against human nature! Aside from prohibiting players IDing each other in the game and removing grouping altogether, there is absolutely no way FD will prevent this sort of thing occurring. You might as well come to terms with it. It's not like you won't have ample opportunity to evade superior firepower. ED is designed for it. Eve isn't - and even there it is hard to catch someone who knows what they're doing.

Really, all this worry is misplaced.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Aside from prohibiting players IDing each other in the game

Now that was an interesting discussion - we're still waiting for Frontier to show us the result....

 

[Blinde]

I'm still not sure why the Goons are such a problem? As far as I know, they play Eve like anyone else. Yeah, they took space, so what? Before them it was BOB about to destroy the universe by taking it over, before BOB I don't know... Phil?

The first time I moved to null sec, Bob still held large chunks of prime space nearby. I had read about the T20 thing, and thought bob were the big bad, and Goons the plucky underdogs. Because of where we were, we got raided by both.

Bob came in, shot us to bits and departed, saying "GF" in local.

Goons came in, shot us to bits, and spouted some of the vilest text,link spam,racist or homophobic insults and ASCII art I'd seen to that point. They weren't interested in having a fun fight, they where looking for an opportunity to prove they were more insulty than other goons to the other goons.

I stopped thinking of Goons as the plucky underdogs after that.

When Darius Johnson (then head of the goons) stood up in Iceland and said "we're not he to destroy the game, we're here to destroy YOUR game", I lost all sympathy.

 

[Meritz]

Now that was an interesting discussion - we're still waiting for Frontier to show us the result....

Transponder? Oh no, that's not what I meant - you can turn it off, and you can definitely tell who is in your group/friend list/wing. That's what's needed for organization.

 

[Meritz]

The first time I moved to null sec, Bob still held large chunks of prime space nearby. I had read about the T20 thing, and thought bob were the big bad, and Goons the plucky underdogs. Because of where we were, we got raided by both.

Bob came in, shot us to bits and departed, saying "GF" in local.

Goons came in, shot us to bits, and spouted some of the vilest text,link spam,racist or homophobic insults and ASCII art I'd seen to that point. They weren't interested in having a fun fight, they where looking for an opportunity to prove they were more insulty than other goons to the other goons.

I stopped thinking of Goons as the plucky underdogs after that.

When Darius Johnson (then head of the goons) stood up in Iceland and said "we're not he to destroy the game, we're here to destroy YOUR game", I lost all sympathy.

I see. Yeah, that's not very nice. Well, if they prove to be a bunch of idiots, wouldn't it be nice for them to all be in one big guild so FD can add a "Ignore guild" function to the ignore list?

 

[Robert Maynard]

I see. Yeah, that's not very nice. Well, if they prove to be a bunch of idiots, wouldn't it be nice for them to all be in one big guild so FD can add a "Ignore guild" function to the ignore list?

Even better, stick with the Alliance functionality (i.e. no "leader") and have an "Ignore Alliance" function in the ignore list.

 

[DYSEQTA]

Damn it! Here I was thinking all the goons were busy playing collect-a-ship with SC...

 

[Meritz]

Even better, stick with the Alliance functionality (i.e. no "leader") and have an "Ignore Alliance" function in the ignore list.

With their size, might have a lot of alliances to juggle...

Anyway, obnoxious players will come. But ED is a different kind of game - way too open and huge to be easily impacted by a group of players, no matter how large. Look at Eve - it is static. Lucrative missions that were there a few years ago are still in the same spot. Whole constellations can be cut off by blocking one system. Game encourages gate camping. It encourages blobbing. None of those design flaws are present in ED.

 

[Bromley86]

Even better, stick with the Alliance functionality (i.e. no "leader") and have an "Ignore Alliance" function in the ignore list.

Given that Wing features are not conducive to good central control, why would any organised out-game entity use them? So Ignore Alliance won't achieve what you're hoping.

 

[Olrik]

fighting alone without any organization vs a group which has a cohesive and well oiled group psyche...

I am gripped by fear and trembling. So, you are going to lead the resistance against the "King of Space". I will be joining your ranks, glorious leader!

Meritz

And what "one man against the galaxy" - that's against human nature!

Good job. Congratulations to both of you. Good job at 洗腦 the elite players.

Spoiler

Literally wash brain in Chinese

I just can't stop laughing...

 

[RaynMaykr]

A few points:

1) continuing to witch hunt against the goons means they've already partially won.

2) being paranoid about the goons does not make a good community

3) people collecting names so people can share an "ignore goonswarm" list is effectively a real witch hunt.

4) goonswarm are only the big bad in EVE right now. Their current competition do all the same stuff. And their predecessors did all the same stuff too.


So please.... Drop all the goon drama. It makes everyone look silly. And people can make points and defend their views without constantly referencing goons.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Given that Wing features are not conducive to good central control, why would any organised out-game entity use them? So Ignore Alliance won't achieve what you're hoping.

Then there are no features that are "conducive to good central control" - problem averted (at least by not making in-game guild type hierarchical structures easy to organise and control)....

 

[Bromley86]

Then there are no features that are "conducive to good central control" - problem averted (at least by not making in-game guild type hierarchical structures easy to organise and control)....

Okay. There still remains the potential problem of the massive out-game guild and its ability to affect play.

4) goonswarm are only the big bad in EVE right now. Their current competition do all the same stuff. And their predecessors did all the same stuff too.

I may be wrong, but I take reference here to Goons to be a reference to all out-game adversarial guilds (as opposed to the Great Expedition, for example). So no offence meant to them; it's actually a complement, of sorts.