AX conflict zones

[nanothargon]

I have faced-off against a solo Medusa before. It was nowhere close to delivering the kind of DPS needed to trash my ship that fast, even with a bunch of mates. I reckon it was about three maybe four seconds from "fine and dandy" to "utterly f****d".

Still confused

Probably two high end interceptors at the same time, with both large swarms and the interceptors attacking you, maybe in missile mode? The pro ax folks focus heavily on damage avoidance and reduction because the max potential dps of the big interceptors with their full swarms is more than any ship can take for more than a few seconds, if it’s the absolute worst case with the horrific swarm damage.

Also, you can sometimes get random module failure from xeno fire; they normally come back on after a few seconds, but I’m wondering if they managed to randomly hit your power plant and blow the ship? They tend to do very heavy module damage and interfere with modules a lot. My life support keeps temporarily failing mid-fight, for instance - worrying the first time but you get used to it

Best option when you get the “interceptors coming in hot” warning is to boost and fa-off, while the shutdown field happens, so you’re not the one they go for. This is another benefit of having so many sacrificial npcs - I mean, highly esteemed comrades in arms - in the ax conflict zones

 

[Mas s_1nhibited]

you can make them alot easier by allowing players to pick sides for the Thargoids.

but seriously ... if you want to fight a alien race that we really shouldnt be fighting in the first place (reasonssss). Maybe it should be hard??

 

[Garvan Crow]

I need to bump this up, especially for Low intensity. I will be OK with Frontier dropping the rewards, maybe even removing Xeno drops from the AX CZ Lows, as long as they are not 3x or 10x harder than other Low CZs it just makes the Low Med High useless. Especially considering that there are AI who cannot deal with Interceptors at all, I don't think even a wing of 3 pilots would do well in a low vs 2 interceptors and 5-10 scouts spawning right behind them.

Walling off a large portion of your player base from content, who play solo after in gaming development terms teaching us to play solo by releasing an absolutely over complex broken and convoluted party mechanic, is just not good design.

Either fix AI to focus each other in Solo so a player feels like they have allies or drop the number of enemies in Low at least. Because having a 1.9 billion credit engineered AX and Guardian outfitted and human engineered ship be as useless as a paperweight even with pulse neutralizer, is not fun.

 

[DemiserofD]

I need to bump this up, especially for Low intensity. I will be OK with Frontier dropping the rewards, maybe even removing Xeno drops from the AX CZ Lows, as long as they are not 3x or 10x harder than other Low CZs it just makes the Low Med High useless. Especially considering that there are AI who cannot deal with Interceptors at all, I don't think even a wing of 3 pilots would do well in a low vs 2 interceptors and 5-10 scouts spawning right behind them.

Walling off a large portion of your player base from content, who play solo after in gaming development terms teaching us to play solo by releasing an absolutely over complex broken and convoluted party mechanic, is just not good design.

Either fix AI to focus each other in Solo so a player feels like they have allies or drop the number of enemies in Low at least. Because having a 1.9 billion credit engineered AX and Guardian outfitted and human engineered ship be as useless as a paperweight even with pulse neutralizer, is not fun.

The problem is trying to use a cutter in a place it's really never in a place it's really not designed for. The damage from multiple thargoids cannot just be Tanked, it must be avoided.

 

[Tividar]

The problem is trying to use a cutter in a place it's really never in a place it's really not designed for. The damage from multiple thargoids cannot just be Tanked, it must be avoided.

I've been running the current CZs for a few days, and the difficulty level is definitely stepped up: more Interceptors and many more Scouts than what was typical for pre-AX Capital Ship CZs. Its almost like they stepped up the CZ spawn rate for the AX Cap ships and then neglected to step them back down after (Which I suppose is narratively appropriate). Killing all the scouts in a Cutter gets a bit tedious, but my biggest objection is the increased number of interceptors leads to a similar increase in number of Swarms - enough to pretty much mandate synthing Flak ammo. Which I hate.

I'm all ears if anyone's having a different experience, but the last CZ (low) I ran had 5 interceptors spawn along with at least a dozen scouts (based on the bounties I received). I killed three cyclopes plus many scouts before running out of time and ammo and so fled the Basilisk and the Medusa.

 

[Kissamies]

I have commented on this before. With my Guardian weapons I do pretty well, even once or twice defeated an harder than Cyclops interceptor that I can't normally beat. Of course, when the final Hydra shows up, I just book it.

I agree about the xeno scanner. It's fine for scanning stationary interceptors, but would need triple the range to have a chance on angry ones in CZ. In general I like the interceptors showing up, but the difficulty jump from Cyclops to Basilisk is big and I think the ones that spawn in the middle of the fight should always be just Cyclopes, except maybe for those extra-hard wing only CZs. Also, tone down the scout spawning when the interceptor is in the field. Otherwise they pile up. Similarly, the final interceptor could be an easier variant except for the expert wing CZs.

My AXCZ experience has changed dramatically since I wrote this over 3 years ago. First of all I have gained more experience. Secondly, I now have small but reliable and equally skilled wing to go hunting with. Finally, the Salvation variant Guardian weapons have increased both my power and stamina in the zones. We can't take out the end boss Hydra by ourselves, but are powerful enough to be MVPs of that fight. Scouts piling up is annoying but no longer a huge issue because 2½ modified medium PCs or better can one shot them. We just switch focus for a bit and sweep them, then go back after the Interceptor. There's is also the common tactic of taking the interceptor fight away from the center so the spawning Scouts will not crash the party very often.

Still, it'd be nice if the AXCZ grading we now have would be more noticeably meaningful. 2 Hydras at the end of the High is cute, but doesn't matter that much since the commanders will just focus on one and then the other. Might be a placeholder for something more deadly, though. Perhaps Low should be Scouts only, with possibly a very occasional Cyclops always appearing as single spawn, and Basilisk or Medusa at the end.

Edit: And trying to scan angry flowers with xeno scanner is still more trouble than it's worth, but at least its passive abilities make it worth carrying,

 

[Garvan Crow]

The problem is trying to use a cutter in a place it's really never in a place it's really not designed for. The damage from multiple thargoids cannot just be Tanked, it must be avoided.

No, that is not the problem. Having a billion credits in modules, reinforcements and countless hours in engineering a capital ship, you should be able to do a Solo (Easy) or Low instance alone. It is the basics of instancing. Otherwise why have it at all. And by the way in Public play I noticed no difference between low med and high, and I finished top 10% with well over a billion in rewards, so my ship was perfectly suited to do Xeno hunting. But the instances were so broken, I probably missed out on another billion.
In other words, I couldn't do Solo, but I also couldn't do Public play, and even if I had enough friends to play in a private Group Play and be efficient in doing the instances, ED doesn't support groups that large.
Frontier dev screwed the pooch and defending them isn't doing anyone any favors, least of all Frontier Dev. They need to fix instances and public play if this is going to go forward, and they definitely need to stop being stingy with the rewards if they can't fix instancing, make sure to award the money to everyone who accepted the prompt.

 

[DemiserofD]

No, that is not the problem. Having a billion credits in modules, reinforcements and countless hours in engineering a capital ship, you should be able to do a Solo (Easy) or Low instance alone. It is the basics of instancing. Otherwise why have it at all. And by the way in Public play I noticed no difference between low med and high, and I finished top 10% with well over a billion in rewards, so my ship was perfectly suited to do Xeno hunting. But the instances were so broken, I probably missed out on another billion.
In other words, I couldn't do Solo, but I also couldn't do Public play, and even if I had enough friends to play in a private Group Play and be efficient in doing the instances, ED doesn't support groups that large.
Frontier dev screwed the pooch and defending them isn't doing anyone any favors, least of all Frontier Dev. They need to fix instances and public play if this is going to go forward, and they definitely need to stop being stingy with the rewards if they can't fix instancing, make sure to award the money to everyone who accepted the prompt.

Credit cost doesn't make something more suitable for something it's unsuited for. If you put a billion credits into a mining vessel, it's not going to be a good combat ship, no matter what you do.

A cutter can be reasonably good at almost anything, just because it has so many possibilities, but it will never be the best option for ax conflict zones, because they rely on things like maneuverability and dodging enemy fire, for which it is simply completely unsuited.

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

2 Hydras at the end of the High is cute, but doesn't matter that much since the commanders will just focus on one and then the other.

It doesn't matter if they're fought one at a time, the distinction is you have to finish both to get the bonus payout.

 

[Garvan Crow]

Credit cost doesn't make something more suitable for something it's unsuited for. If you put a billion credits into a mining vessel, it's not going to be a good combat ship, no matter what you do.

A cutter can be reasonably good at almost anything, just because it has so many possibilities, but it will never be the best option for ax conflict zones, because they rely on things like maneuverability and dodging enemy fire, for which it is simply completely unsuited.

A Cutter is not a mining vessel, also that's also saying that the Type-10 is bad at Anti-Xeno... Cutter is one of the best AXI shield tanks with prismatic shields, which I have and are engineered. I have Guardian hull reinforcement and Military Grade hull armor. Guardian Plasma chargers and engineered power systems. 5000 shields 2500 with 9% caustic resist hull, and in Solo I am expected to fight 2 interceptors whose swarms kill the hull in one salvo and the friendly AI is as useful as coffee beans? Meanwhile if you play in public the instances crash, you get focused if you do too much damage and you spend the rest of the encounter running away or just die and get put in a different instance begging from scratch hoping someone joins before the interceptors.
Walling off content from most of your players is bad, stop defending Frontier's bad implementation of this war, you are not heling them.

 

[Tividar]

A cutter can be reasonably good at almost anything, just because it has so many possibilities, but it will never be the best option for ax conflict zones, because they rely on things like maneuverability and dodging enemy fire, for which it is simply completely unsuited.

I disagree with this a bit. Xenocide does pretty well. With a little FA off here and there its plenty maneuverable and shield tanking Cyclopes and Basilisks with cold reboots is certainly viable. A pair of these Cutters pretty much trivializes anything up to and including a Meduasa as they can cross heal and take turns repairing/tanking the Interceptor. In that case I usually swap the Flak for LR Thermal Vent Beams, as you can out heal the Swarms.

For MMO-trinity-style engagements the Cutter is Hands-down the best option.

 

[DemiserofD]

A Cutter is not a mining vessel, also that's also saying that the Type-10 is bad at Anti-Xeno... Cutter is one of the best AXI shield tanks with prismatic shields, which I have and are engineered. I have Guardian hull reinforcement and Military Grade hull armor. Guardian Plasma chargers and engineered power systems. 5000 shields 2500 with 9% caustic resist hull, and in Solo I am expected to fight 2 interceptors whose swarms kill the hull in one salvo and the friendly AI is as useful as coffee beans? Meanwhile if you play in public the instances crash, you get focused if you do too much damage and you spend the rest of the encounter running away or just die and get put in a different instance begging from scratch hoping someone joins before the interceptors.
Walling off content from most of your players is bad, stop defending Frontier's bad implementation of this war, you are not heling them.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying about the t10, but you should know that it is probably the single worst ax ship in the game.

What you need to realize is that other players have achieved success where you are currently experiencing failure. That means that either you are facing a skill issue, or an approach issue. You can either improve your skill, or change your approach, but if you don't do either, don't expect your results to change.

This content is possible, it's just a matter of doing it right.

 

[Kissamies]

I think the Cutter is the only one of the large pad ships that is the reasonable for AX work. The others are not fast enough to outrun an interceptor and are therefore more challenging to use. Of course the mediums are the best strikers, but my Cutter still finds some use in a support role: the one that carries the neutraliser, extra limpets and healing lasers if the wingmates happen to use shields. Also tries to deal with the swarm too. T-10 might seem even better for that job, but it's so slow I don't want to bother trying it out.

 

[zikolach]

But the instances were so broken, I probably missed out on another billion.

Did AX CZ instances work for anybody in open at all? I saw myself multiple interceptors killed in several AX combat zones (and even contributed a bit), but I didn't see any instance as "completed". Despite that the progress bar for many of them were at 100%. I mean I received combat bonds for killed ships, but not any completed zones. Maybe it worked in Solo/PG where it was less participants.

 

[Garvan Crow]

I'm not quite sure what you're saying about the t10, but you should know that it is probably the single worst ax ship in the game.

What you need to realize is that other players have achieved success where you are currently experiencing failure. That means that either you are facing a skill issue, or an approach issue. You can either improve your skill, or change your approach, but if you don't do either, don't expect your results to change.

This content is possible, it's just a matter of doing it right.

Defender is good at cold running no shield because it can mount so much weaponry and carry a massive amounts of hull repair and decon limpets. It can have enough thermal vents to essentially run at freezing the whole time, not to mention if it uses 4 size 3 Chargers it can overheat itself and decontaminate without using a limpet and then cool before anything chases it. As some others have said, it is slow, but it is nearly immortal to swarms because of how their damage works only if it has a shield.

Cutter is one of the best Capitals as some have said because of its speed and engineered thrusters give it enough agility to dodge even swarm fire IF you get to see it, and its shield capabilities are outrageous with over 9000 shields if you used SCBs instead of G Shield/Hull Reinforcement.

I am not complaining I can't do the content. My comments pertain only to SOLO, not to public or Private group content. I could hang out and did a lot in public, the issues there were instance crashing/freezing/lagging, never completing, interceptors never spawning or rubberbanding 25KM away. Ship Launched Fighters glitching thargoids spawns, refusing orders to engage ect.

You keep defending the content which isn't too hard but broken outright. I ended the campaign with being top 10% of competitors using my Krait MkII and my Cutter depending on the day I was having. Loosing a 50,000,000 ship to 2 hydra swarms simultaneous attack is not fun, it is even less fun when you find out not only could you not get back into the same instance, but if you do the hydra died and you didn't get the credit. So you are out 50,000,000 AND a 60,000,000 bond AND a 5,000,000 credit completion bonus, that happens once, eh, it hurts but NBD, it happens 3 times, you try doing SOLO. Solo, is not impossible, but it is tedious and gross and you could still lose your ship to a random lucky strike. So you go back to public where the game is... what? Guess if the instance is lagging or broken... play for 1 hour with the scouts only to find out the bar will never ever move.

I finished the campaign with over 1 billion in earnings after ship costs and repairs. I can do the content, and I still say the content was released in a flawed state, and if they want to fix it, they need to fix how rewards work, or fix so that we can do it solo.

 

[DemiserofD]

Defender is good at cold running no shield because it can mount so much weaponry and carry a massive amounts of hull repair and decon limpets. It can have enough thermal vents to essentially run at freezing the whole time, not to mention if it uses 4 size 3 Chargers it can overheat itself and decontaminate without using a limpet and then cool before anything chases it. As some others have said, it is slow, but it is nearly immortal to swarms because of how their damage works only if it has a shield.

Cutter is one of the best Capitals as some have said because of its speed and engineered thrusters give it enough agility to dodge even swarm fire IF you get to see it, and its shield capabilities are outrageous with over 9000 shields if you used SCBs instead of G Shield/Hull Reinforcement.

I am not complaining I can't do the content. My comments pertain only to SOLO, not to public or Private group content. I could hang out and did a lot in public, the issues there were instance crashing/freezing/lagging, never completing, interceptors never spawning or rubberbanding 25KM away. Ship Launched Fighters glitching thargoids spawns, refusing orders to engage ect.

You keep defending the content which isn't too hard but broken outright. I ended the campaign with being top 10% of competitors using my Krait MkII and my Cutter depending on the day I was having. Loosing a 50,000,000 ship to 2 hydra swarms simultaneous attack is not fun, it is even less fun when you find out not only could you not get back into the same instance, but if you do the hydra died and you didn't get the credit. So you are out 50,000,000 AND a 60,000,000 bond AND a 5,000,000 credit completion bonus, that happens once, eh, it hurts but NBD, it happens 3 times, you try doing SOLO. Solo, is not impossible, but it is tedious and gross and you could still lose your ship to a random lucky strike. So you go back to public where the game is... what? Guess if the instance is lagging or broken... play for 1 hour with the scouts only to find out the bar will never ever move.

I finished the campaign with over 1 billion in earnings after ship costs and repairs. I can do the content, and I still say the content was released in a flawed state, and if they want to fix it, they need to fix how rewards work, or fix so that we can do it solo.

First of all, not only is the T10 not immune to swarms, it actually takes more damage from Thargon missiles than any other ship in the game. The damage Ships Take is directly proportionate to their size, and being the largest ship, the T10 takes the most damage, Shields or no. I actually tested this personally, and the T10 takes around 100 damage per missile, compared to an eagle, which takes 20. The difference is massive.

Anyway, what exactly is broken that specifically affects the cutter? Most of the bugs you point out are far more General, affecting pretty much everyone regardless of ship choice.

As far as taking damage is concerned, if you are taking too much damage, you should take a ship that can avoid that damage. It doesn't matter how big your Shields get, hydras and Hydra swarms can out damage them. That's basically the whole point, to force players to fly well, rather than engineer their way through anything.

 

[Garvan Crow]

Did AX CZ instances work for anybody in open at all? I saw myself multiple interceptors killed in several AX combat zones (and even contributed a bit), but I didn't see any instance as "completed". Despite that the progress bar for many of them were at 100%. I mean I received combat bonds for killed ships, but not any completed zones. Maybe it worked in Solo/PG where it was less participants.

It worked for me several times, but no more than once or twice a day. I just settled for the dead interceptors and Hydras when there was one spawned somewhere we would all rush there, sometimes you would get in, sometimes not and get a fresh instance instead. It was all a crap shoot and the game wasn't killing Thargoids so much as chasing the big group of open Play ships to wherever they were decimating the greens.

 

[Garvan Crow]

First of all, not only is the T10 not immune to swarms, it actually takes more damage from Thargon missiles than any other ship in the game. The damage Ships Take is directly proportionate to their size, and being the largest ship, the T10 takes the most damage, Shields or no. I actually tested this personally, and the T10 takes around 100 damage per missile, compared to an eagle, which takes 20. The difference is massive.

Anyway, what exactly is broken that specifically affects the cutter? Most of the bugs you point out are far more General, affecting pretty much everyone regardless of ship choice.

As far as taking damage is concerned, if you are taking too much damage, you should take a ship that can avoid that damage. It doesn't matter how big your Shields get, hydras and Hydra swarms can out damage them. That's basically the whole point, to force players to fly well, rather than engineer their way through anything.

Are you refusing to understand?
You can shoot at their missiles if you have beams the missile doesn't hit you ever. just bind a Target Highest Threat and push fire on turreted beams and watch missile go boom. Thargoid Swarm kamikaze runs are dumb fire and you can dodge them, also if you are running cold like I said, Swarms will rarely see you so they can never target you.

Nothing I said is specific to a Cutter, me having a Cutter, is only relevant because I have a cutter not a Corvette or a Conda or a Chieftain.

How do you avoid damage from a swarm you don't know is coming? 6th sense? How does that work through the internet at virtual objects? yes you can run cold shieldless cold build, but then you can't use the cutter's paper hull, you need a beefcake like the Defender (5700 or more hull), compare that to a 2500 hull of a Cutter or 1600 hull of a Krait, and yeah, 126 missiles could do all 12600 damage if they all hit, if they all hit if they target you and you don't see them. But what if only 26 hit at 20 damage to an Eagle like you said? Will the Eagle survive? No. So your comparison is ridiculous, obviously if you see damage and dodge it you take no damage, but you can't say "just take no damage from being randomly targeted by the swarm when in the middle of dodging damage from organic missiles and interceptor beams and not hitting friendlies and dodging scouts in a SOLO instance." That's you being unreasonable.

 

[DemiserofD]

Are you refusing to understand?
You can shoot at their missiles if you have beams the missile doesn't hit you ever. just bind a Target Highest Threat and push fire on turreted beams and watch missile go boom. Thargoid Swarm kamikaze runs are dumb fire and you can dodge them, also if you are running cold like I said, Swarms will rarely see you so they can never target you.

Nothing I said is specific to a Cutter, me having a Cutter, is only relevant because I have a cutter not a Corvette or a Conda or a Chieftain.

How do you avoid damage from a swarm you don't know is coming? 6th sense? How does that work through the internet at virtual objects? yes you can run cold shieldless cold build, but then you can't use the cutter's paper hull, you need a beefcake like the Defender (5700 or more hull), compare that to a 2500 hull of a Cutter or 1600 hull of a Krait, and yeah, 126 missiles could do all 12600 damage if they all hit, if they all hit if they target you and you don't see them. But what if only 26 hit at 20 damage to an Eagle like you said? Will the Eagle survive? No. So your comparison is ridiculous, obviously if you see damage and dodge it you take no damage, but you can't say "just take no damage from being randomly targeted by the swarm when in the middle of dodging damage from organic missiles and interceptor beams and not hitting friendlies and dodging scouts in a SOLO instance." That's you being unreasonable.

That's not how swarms work. First off, swarms don't care about heat. Staying cold doesn't matter, what matters is how big your ships profile is, as that determines how much damage you will take from the standard bullets. Missiles are also completely predictable. If you fly through a swarm, the Swarm enters an agitated state, during which time it can launch missiles. If you fly through it again, it can no longer fire missiles anymore. If the Interceptor that launched the Swarm has been alive for more than about 8 minutes without losing a heart, it will become enraged, and the Swarm can launch all of its missiles at once. But still, only if it is agitated.

Therefore, if there is an Interceptor in the area that hasn't been attacked for a while, players should know to be wary of nearby swarms, as if they become agitated, they may fire all their missiles at once.

So yes, I do absolutely think that you should be able to avoid the missiles. Just keep a decent awareness of what is going on around you. But you also have to accept that, if you are flying a larger and less agile ship, you may have a harder time reacting in time to avoid damage.

The proper response to this is, of course, choosing a different ship, one that is better suited to the role of ax combat.

 

[Kissamies]

Did AX CZ instances work for anybody in open at all? I saw myself multiple interceptors killed in several AX combat zones (and even contributed a bit), but I didn't see any instance as "completed". Despite that the progress bar for many of them were at 100%. I mean I received combat bonds for killed ships, but not any completed zones. Maybe it worked in Solo/PG where it was less participants.

We managed to make them work several times, but it usually required some shopping around. Also it was very common to miss the end bonus for completing the zone after killing the Hydras. It is definitely more likely to freeze the more players are around. If you already have an adequate force of skilled commanders around, it's best not to advertise the zone in the system chat. Sadly, that's just how it is.