Bacon Cats!

As if there was ever any doubt?

Engineering still feels like the huge grindstone that's keeping me from fully enjoying the game. Silly, but there it is.
I think for the non pew pew type, FSD and Shields/boosters are all that really should be desired. Other stuff like speed, weaps, power plant, etc just helps kill stuff faster. Although I remember waaay back in my 'upgraded' Cobra III trying a CZ for the first time. It was a short visit because I had to low wake after just a few min.

Do you use ED Engineer to keep track of your mats/data? That really helps manage the engineer goal setting.
 
Don't rush on my account! I can't actually play right now for a week or so, and even then I have to take things -slooooow-. Did you get your invite, by the way?

Yes I did thanks, and accepted. :) That's fine, just let me know if / when you are playing and we can meet up (if you wish), I'm pretty flexible with when I can play. And don't worry, I'm rushing all on my own account. Much as I enjoy the idea of exploring, the reality for me is that the mechanics are simply not involving enough after a week or so.

I think for the non pew pew type, FSD and Shields/boosters are all that really should be desired. Other stuff like speed, weaps, power plant, etc just helps kill stuff faster. Although I remember waaay back in my 'upgraded' Cobra III trying a CZ for the first time. It was a short visit because I had to low wake after just a few min.

Do you use ED Engineer to keep track of your mats/data? That really helps manage the engineer goal setting.

Good points, although speed, IMHO, can be great fun. I have an iCourier that boosts at 881 M/s, and an iEagle that boosts at just over 850 M/s. :D But yes, the only things that I generally take to grade 5 are FSD, thrusters and shield generator, most other things are between grades 1 and 3.

I never min / maxed in the old system (still got a few excellent rolls on thrusters), and now with the new system I'll take things to maximum when I have the materials. To be honest, the last 3 or 4 rolls in grade 5 give such a small performance boost as to be only necessary for satisfying OCD and presumably PvP (which I don't do). :D
 
...I'm rushing all on my own account. Much as I enjoy the idea of exploring, the reality for me is that the mechanics are simply not involving enough after a week or so.

Yeah, I definitely know that feeling. I got a few systems with my name on them and then... Found it somewhat lacking. I should go off on an explore just for sightseeing purposes, if I could work out how to intelligently set my jump plotter to only accept scoopable stars without manual input and oversight on my part. Stupid computer. Hmph!




Good points, although speed, IMHO, can be great fun. I have an iCourier that boosts at 881 M/s, and an iEagle that boosts at just over 850 M/s. :D

That's just.... just awful. The difference between engineered and not is why I want to not play, honestly. I'm not fond of "you must do X to progress" features. I don't much care about being on par, but at least not utterly eclipsed without a stupidly long grind would be a fine thing. That vast gulf depresses the hell outta me.


Although I remember waaay back in my 'upgraded' Cobra III trying a CZ for the first time. It was a short visit because I had to low wake after just a few min.

Do you use ED Engineer to keep track of your mats/data? That really helps manage the engineer goal setting.

Before Engineers, I had a good run with my Cobra III. Then again that was without the obnoxiousness of one-shot railgun weapons and pre-mustache twirling evil NPC killer silliness and bad game direction because "zomg must maek hrrd pew-pew gaem!" or some such drivel (AKA: When the game was easy and fun, without the seat-gripping tension and danger narrative that... *yawn* uh...)

I have no idea what ED Engineer is. I've done very little to actually look at Engineers out of game and, let's be honest, ED's in-game documentation seems to explain squat diddly nowt.
 
Yeah, I definitely know that feeling. I got a few systems with my name on them and then... Found it somewhat lacking. I should go off on an explore just for sightseeing purposes, if I could work out how to intelligently set my jump plotter to only accept scoopable stars without manual input and oversight on my part. Stupid computer. Hmph!

That's just.... just awful. The difference between engineered and not is why I want to not play, honestly. I'm not fond of "you must do X to progress" features. I don't much care about being on par, but at least not utterly eclipsed without a stupidly long grind would be a fine thing. That vast gulf depresses the hell outta me.

Filter the map by star type and use filter when plotting the route. ;) It's pretty reliable.

I suppose it depends what you want to do in the game. I have engineered my ships primarily because it was something to do. I am a PvE player, have no desire to shoot other players, and NPC's are not significantly engineered other than targets for wing assassination missions. Typically I can defend myself against most NPC aggressors although of course much depends on the ship I am flying.

The game is unbalanced (even in PvE) before engineering unless you are an ace pilot, which I am not! My Cobra MkIII cannot defeat a high ranking Anaconda on its own, but my FDL probably can, and my Corvette (which frankly I don't enjoy or use that much) will swat any NPC. Same pilot... :)

Those speed ships, while they are both lightly armed and shielded, would typically use their speed to get away in an attack. I use them for flying through canyons, and am destroyed more often doing that than I am in combat. :D

And I think it's worth noting that there is very little forced PvE combat in the game now. Missions will sometimes generate opposition, but random interdictions are extremely rare in my experience, far less than they were earlier in the game.
 
...I have no idea what ED Engineer is. I've done very little to actually look at Engineers out of game and, let's be honest, ED's in-game documentation seems to explain squat diddly nowt.
Here is the thread about ED Engineer. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-to-track-your-blueprint-progress-in-realtime .I think you have to enter the amount of mats/data the first time you load it up, but after that, it tracks how many mats you get (via missions, surface SRV'ing, etc) and lose (via engineering or using the material trader) AUTOMATICALLY. It also provides an easy interface that groups engineer upgrades and makes it SUPER easy to see what you have/need for any upgrade you want. I highly recommend it. I should do a video on it just for kicks on my channel.

I have engineered my ships primarily because it was something to do...
This 100%. I am tempted to get in an A rated but unengineered Cobra III or IV and run missions / cz's like I do now. I would probably have to run from some interdictions, but only in low sec systems.
 
Have a Happy St. Patrick's Day and watch out for Leprekhans trying to steal your bacon.

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I've done very little to actually look at Engineers out of game and, let's be honest, ED's in-game documentation seems to explain squat diddly nowt.

No, I have to disagree, the documentation is nowhere near as comprehensive as you describe there.

;)

(If you fancy some jolly amusement, try using the key bindings that the in-game help page shows you. I guarantee entertainment all round from unexpected heat sink launches, and other japery.)
 
(If you fancy some jolly amusement, try using the key bindings that the in-game help page shows you. I guarantee entertainment all round from unexpected heat sink launches, and other japery.)

That sounds suspiciously like the first three hours of my game time, before a kindly soul saved my keybindings and gave me the gift of being able to enjoy space.
Then Engineers. :(
 
I just discovered that my favorite local place for breakfast/brunch serve waffles with bacon crumbled up in the batter ^,^... guess what I had today :p
 
If this PP is open only goes through... is there any system Bacon Cats can call home where those in Open can stomp all over... before it was even as in whatever mode you ware in it can be countered.. but if Sandros goes through with it and it can ONLY be countered in Open... Well BCats, Mobius, and any other PVE "faction" is pretty much no longer existent.
 
If this PP is open only goes through... is there any system Bacon Cats can call home where those in Open can stomp all over... before it was even as in whatever mode you ware in it can be countered.. but if Sandros goes through with it and it can ONLY be countered in Open... Well BCats, Mobius, and any other PVE "faction" is pretty much no longer existent.
From what I have read:

1. If they change the PP benefit from MF to only the control system, this would benefit BGSers, as only PP control systems (Priva) would be no-go systems for MF that don't line up with the PP faction (Fed/Imp/All). This is kind of a good change. Using the BCats as the example, Priva would be given up, but the other systems BCats are in would be of no use to the PP folks, so you wouldn't have to worry about them.

HOWEVER...

2. They are also changing missions so they give PP benefits just by doing them. So if you think it was a huge problem before with BGS unaware grinders (BUGS) messing up BGS work without even knowing or caring, it's going to be 10x worse, since the PP horde will be added to the existing BUGS, since they will now want to run missions for their PP group.

AND...

#2 is double bad for BCats because they are in ALD space (empire) and BCats are Independent. #2 is only granted if the MF you do the mission for is aligned with your PP faction, in this case, Empire. So they would not only mess up BGS work, they would benefit Empire MF's and hurt non Empire MF's.

So the upshot from #1, #2, is that for the BCats, things will be WORSE than now, which is bad. You'd have to give up on Priva, and the other systems would be a mess from PP mission grinders.

As far as Open Only for PP...

This would have no impact on the BCats. You can still do everything you want to support the BCats through the BGS in any mode you want.

HOWEVER...

Follow me here...MB said "all modes are an equally valid choice" in 2015, but Sandro has suggested 2 yrs ago in March 2016 to add "significant open only bonus" to PP. Did Sandro agree or think the modes are equal choices? Nope. Not only that, here he is again, more than doubling down on his idea by now saying not just a bonus, but "Only Open for PP". His reason? "Reasoning: We’ve saved the biggest change for last, as making Powerplay Open only goes way beyond the remit of a tweak. We’ve seen this topic discussed many times and we think it’s time we addressed it directly to get as much quality feedback as possible." This is basically saying, "people were whining, so we're changing things to accommodate them".

Ok, now fast forward to the day after the open only is implemented for PP. And remember all the people in the focused feedback thread that are ALREADY clamoring for Open Only BGS. Add intensified whining with the support of now being able to say "...but, but, you made PP open only, so now do it for the BGS", and "the BGS is pvp centric because you have to contend with other players that 'do stuff' to support their MF that is in the same system as where you are trying to BGS", and you have your answer.

What does FD do? Simple. They make BGS open only as well. You can't avoid that logic. And at that time, you can give up on BGS work, unless you fly a fully engineered PKP machine 100% of the time, and are a skilled PKPer, since you will now be FORCED to play in open if you want to BGS.

Haha, that took too long. The short answer to your question will be "no", you can't do the BGS anymore, and "yes" non open groups will be locked out of the BGS.
 
From what I have read:

1. If they change the PP benefit from MF to only the control system, this would benefit BGSers, as only PP control systems (Priva) would be no-go systems for MF that don't line up with the PP faction (Fed/Imp/All). This is kind of a good change. Using the BCats as the example, Priva would be given up, but the other systems BCats are in would be of no use to the PP folks, so you wouldn't have to worry about them.

HOWEVER...

2. They are also changing missions so they give PP benefits just by doing them. So if you think it was a huge problem before with BGS unaware grinders (BUGS) messing up BGS work without even knowing or caring, it's going to be 10x worse, since the PP horde will be added to the existing BUGS, since they will now want to run missions for their PP group.

AND...

#2 is double bad for BCats because they are in ALD space (empire) and BCats are Independent. #2 is only granted if the MF you do the mission for is aligned with your PP faction, in this case, Empire. So they would not only mess up BGS work, they would benefit Empire MF's and hurt non Empire MF's.

So the upshot from #1, #2, is that for the BCats, things will be WORSE than now, which is bad. You'd have to give up on Priva, and the other systems would be a mess from PP mission grinders.

As far as Open Only for PP...

This would have no impact on the BCats. You can still do everything you want to support the BCats through the BGS in any mode you want.

HOWEVER...

Follow me here...MB said "all modes are an equally valid choice" in 2015, but Sandro has suggested 2 yrs ago in March 2016 to add "significant open only bonus" to PP. Did Sandro agree or think the modes are equal choices? Nope. Not only that, here he is again, more than doubling down on his idea by now saying not just a bonus, but "Only Open for PP". His reason? "Reasoning: We’ve saved the biggest change for last, as making Powerplay Open only goes way beyond the remit of a tweak. We’ve seen this topic discussed many times and we think it’s time we addressed it directly to get as much quality feedback as possible." This is basically saying, "people were whining, so we're changing things to accommodate them".

Ok, now fast forward to the day after the open only is implemented for PP. And remember all the people in the focused feedback thread that are ALREADY clamoring for Open Only BGS. Add intensified whining with the support of now being able to say "...but, but, you made PP open only, so now do it for the BGS", and "the BGS is pvp centric because you have to contend with other players that 'do stuff' to support their MF that is in the same system as where you are trying to BGS", and you have your answer.

What does FD do? Simple. They make BGS open only as well. You can't avoid that logic. And at that time, you can give up on BGS work, unless you fly a fully engineered PKP machine 100% of the time, and are a skilled PKPer, since you will now be FORCED to play in open if you want to BGS.

Haha, that took too long. The short answer to your question will be "no", you can't do the BGS anymore, and "yes" non open groups will be locked out of the BGS.


I am seriously looking at the uninstall button and this is one of my favorite games..
 
I am seriously looking at the uninstall button and this is one of my favorite games..

I'd hold off on that uninstall... ;)

While Abil may be correct (and he knows his BGS stuff), it's also quite possible that the days following PP moved to open (if it happens) then the forums will be full of players complaining bitterly that they still didn't see anyone all the time they were blockading their station, and their power's influence actually waned. Instancing...

Here's my take on it.

Scenario 1. Players who gave up on powerplay / the game because they couldn't shoot other players come back, solo/ group players see the 'error of their ways' and flock to open. Open thrives, so does powerplay.

Scenario 2. Players who enjoy to powerplay in solo / group stop playing powerplay / the game. Powerplay is even less used and open is much the same.

Scenario 3. A balance of the above with some players coming back, and some stopping. Not much changes with regards to powerplay. The day that it becomes open only, the forum is flooded with threads about how groups blockaded systems / stations, destroyed a few of the enemy, but are furious because clearly some people that they didn't see (instancing, platforms, time zones..) obviously got through and they didn't 'win'.
 
I love crashing folks parties! My take on the situation?

Where to start? Our playergroup has proudly bent the rules of the game to our will, from the start. We play as freedom fighters...but others call us terrorists. Such is the realm of history and public opinion.

Your new rules undermine anyone that plays with the same goal as we do.

First, the changes to fortification, voting, etc. does remove most problems people have with 5th column operations (you do realize many people enjoy this type of gameplay?).
It also removes player groups who are utilizing PP to enhance their groups system, or their roleplay.

Personally, our group has enjoyed being the green blister on the Federations hind end for the past few years. With these changes, our group will cease being a control center for Mahon...and fall to the Federation. Also remember, this gameplay will be unattainable ever again in the game with the changes being made. It certainly was a good run...I'll hate to see it go.

Let me dig myself out of the mode subforum

My stance in discussions about the Open vs. controversy has always been that the devs cannot support Open only play because of the design decisions that were made from the start of the game. I still hold that opinion and am surprised to see this idea being put on the table. Can you explain what changes to the game will be made to make PVP a viable gameplay choice? Here's my take on what needs to be addressed if this is a real conversation:

Instancing issues:

1. Two wings working together effectively shuts down an instance to incoming players...
a. Instances are still limited to roughly 10-12 players by natural matchmaking.
2. Network traffic in homes can effectively limit Open only to a solo experience..or just a single wing.
3. Personal security settings can make Open a solo experience.
4. How does blocking work in this new scenario? Getting rid of it?
Gameplay issues

1. PVP Population density vs NPC's. Players will still be more likely to be engaged with NPC's than PVP players...even with choke points at the collection sites...is this going to bring the PVP player the gameplay they desire?
2. How will PVP kills play into the PP merit system...will PVP people get thousands of papers to deliver in the death of a transporter? Will they be able to gather the papers the dead player was carrying? Will they have enough cargo space to pick up all the papers that were dropped? How do you balance the PVP input into PP?
3. Engineering now becomes a required activity for PP folks...just to have a chance at survival.

Game was advertised as all players were equal in influence in the game.

1. Locks out Solo and Private Groups
2. Locks out those that cannot afford, or do not want to pay, extra console fees.
3. Locks out any player group that wants to utilize PP for lore or playergroup reasons.
4. Locks out those that do not engineer their ships.

BGS issues.
1. Last time PP was instituted to include BGS movement, player groups lost control over the influence within their systems.
2. PP players couldn't control soft power in systems see #1.
3. BGS states were affected with all the random system flipping see #1.

In the end, all these changes remove gameplay choices, as well as influence in the galaxy, from a lot of people, including myself. Over time, you (the dev team), have weakened PVP, particularly in PowerPlay (they don't make extra merits for the kill anymore). I would prefer a discussion of allowing PVP to have some affect over the BGS, by giving them a PVP bucket of some sort in that part of the game, rather than removing opportunities as I have listed.

And I still wonder what Sandro is doing:

Reasoning: We’ve saved the biggest change for last, as making Powerplay Open only goes way beyond the remit of a tweak. We’ve seen this topic discussed many times and we think it’s time we addressed it directly to get as much quality feedback as possible.

OR

"In addition, this is far from a done deal, and we're acutely aware of the importance of such a change, which is why we want to get feedback from the user base before committing to anything."

At least they are going to address it directly. Hopefully, it will shut down 'The Hotel California', finally.
 
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I love crashing folks parties! My take on the situation?
I would imagine you are welcome here, as long as you like bacon, and cats. Judging from your avatar, you're cool with cats. BUT DO YOU LIKE BACON?? If not, go back henceforth from which thy came, heathen. :)
 
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