Balance issues with combat that I've noticed

[Kypho]

Im not jealous of my betters. I could brag how good i am in an other game but its so silly. its a game, only that.
About my definition of exploit is where ppl doing/using things what is obv. not designed to do.

Im happy that you are so badass awesome gamefighter, and you love to brag how you can fly. No need to brag. give tips, hints, just dont brag because you are just a gamer. Just that i wanted to say. I like players who are good, just those, who brag about that they are awesome, skilled warriors in a game, are pathetic. Exept for 10-12 year old kids. They are just like that, like to brag about such things. If any of you are one of those, then excuse me.

 

[Remiel]

Im not jealous of my betters. I could brag how good i am in an other game but its so silly. its a game, only that.
About my definition of exploit is where ppl doing/using things what is obv. not designed to do.

Im happy that you are so badass awesome gamefighter, and you love to brag how you can fly. No need to brag. give tips, hints, just dont brag because you are just a gamer. Just that i wanted to say. I like players who are good, just those, who brag about that they are awesome, skilled warriors in a game, are pathetic.

First of all, my inane reply to your inanely idiotic, and vexatious comment about people bragging about their skill was designed to point out your misconception of the discussion of skill to have anything to do with bragging. No one is bragging, we're talking about how skill is going to factor in. I can't imagine how you would confuse one with the other unless you were feeling a bit impotent yourself. It is a common trait of the jealous to accuse people of 'bragging' when they refuse to accept they just might not be good enough themselves to do what others can. Don't mistake objective discussion of competency with bragging.

Secondly, how do you know the game wasn't designed for SCBs to work the way they do if they work the way they do? By your own definition, it's not an exploit.

 

[Daemonjax]

I think using shield cells should generate significant heat.

 

[Remiel]

I think using shield cells should generate significant heat.

I can agree with this depending on your definition of 'significant'. I'm actually surprised they don't already, that just makes sense for an active module tied into SYS. I would, however, expect how much heat they generate to depend on the grade of the SCB. Higher grades that you spend more money on should generate less heat per charge used.

 

[ChaseBears]

No, this metaphor is perfect, because what's good for one is good for all. ie, everyone has the same ability to fit that everyone else has, just like everyone has the same access to the rocket launcher. I use shield cells too by the way, and I'm saying they're not OP. Based on what I hear you ask? I've had both players and NPCs bust my shields down before I had a chance to use one, and I've busted through them myself.

You're setting up the standard of OP as being nigh-invincible. Shield cells could be almost instant and grant you 100s of invulnerability and your point would still apply.

it really doesn't matter that in some cases you can negate or obviate their effectiveness. Something having a counter is not evidence that it's balanced, even to the extent that shield cells have counters.

i truely believe the game would be better without shieldcells in their current form. either they should change or be removed, they have a huge distorting effect atm.

And I'm sorry, but there's a bit more skill involved in using them than just setting a hotkey. They do require ammo, so ammo conservation is a key element to not wasting them - knowing when to use them, and when not to, is a skill believe it or not.

I'm sure there are plenty of players right now who are using them and thinking they can permatank everything just by spamming shields, but, that's only because they haven't come up against anything that's actually hard yet. And don't make like the elite Anacondas are hard. The AI, is good as it is at times, is still AI and incredibly predictable. When you've fought one, you've fought them all.

potion chugging will never be skill. you can get slightly better results with experience, but if you just stick with 'shields low! mash button!' you'll get 85% of the benefit of shield cells. and if you can carry 20+ of them who cares about efficiency really.

 

[Quineloe]

I just love the 'pilot skill' argument. Enough pilot skill and the guy with less power will win! I have seen this argument brought in every single game with fast and heavy ships. As if every player in a heavy ship was a bumbling idiot who couldn't even dock properly.

What if the player in the SCB cobra is also a great pilot?

 

[EAGLE 5]

I think this: balancing things based on PvP should never happen, unless game is pure PvP.

A lot of truth in this statement.

 

[ChaseBears]

A lot of truth in this statement.

Shield cells are bigger issue in PVE than PVP.

Ah, this reminds me of the early days of Champions Online. There were some combinations of powers that were very powerful. They were dominating PVP! When people discussed nerfing them people lost their heads about not balancing the game for PVP..

...Meanwhile, people were using those same builds to solo every 5-man PVE dungeon in the game.

 

[Mephane]

I think the simplest solution would be to make it so you can only ever install 1 shield cell bank module, just like you can't have more than 1 shield generator.

 

[crushdepth]

I think this: balancing things based on PvP should never happen, unless game is pure PvP.

Completely agree. Especially since 98% of contacts are AI. I only see one or two actual players a day, and its not like I've wandered far.

AI do need to be tougher though. I think I lost the first couple of fights while figuring out the controls. Every other death has been me flying into a rock etc through my own stupidity.

I know they can ramp up the AI, I once had quite a challenging fight in a conflict zone against a cobra pulling all the tricks (sad to say, rated mostly harmless!).

I have issues with AI ratings: Why are dangerous/deadly/elite pilots so common, and why are they flying SIDEWINDERS??? An elite pilot should be rare. And a "deadly" pilot should be, well, dangerous. And scary. A novice should be thinking let's not go there, but as things stand I ignore pilot ratings and just look at the ship.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

Yes, for the life of me, I don't understand why Shield Cell Banks were added - or added like they are.


When I first tried them out (and apologies if I've trotted this out before), I flew out, got in some trouble, thought "Argh, I'm dead if I don't use my new, improved Shield Cell boost!"... and hit the button.

"Phew!", I thought. "These are great"!.


After using my shield cell, I fought and flew like normal. On returning to base, I reloaded, to replace it.


A few days later, I was chatting with my mate at work, swapping Elite stories. I was recounting the amazing way the new Shield Cell could give your shields a recharge. He gave me a funny look, and said,

"You know you get half a dozen recharges on those? More, sometimes!".


Whuuuut? The possibility had never even occurred to me. Multiple, spammable shield recharges?


As the OP said, say goodbye to a lot of the combat risk from the earlier beta phases. Just quaff those shield potions!

 

[Cosmos]

I hear what people are saying about shield cells but there is an obvious counter. Hit someone using a plasma cannon and their shields are gone. We've also not seen many players in the most powerful ships yet. What a player can do with a Python or Anaconda is gonna be a different ballpark compared to the NPCs.

 

[ChaseBears]

Plasma cannons are great, but 2 class 2s won't take out a Cobra's shields.

 

[Remiel]

potion chugging will never be skill. you can get slightly better results with experience, but if you just stick with 'shields low! mash button!' you'll get 85% of the benefit of shield cells. and if you can carry 20+ of them who cares about efficiency really.

Right up until the point that the user runs out of ammo, or someone alpha's those shields away or manages to get through them faster than the SCB user can respond. Some of you think aerospace combat is just 'fly around, push buttons'. Most of you are forgetting the psychological aspects.

 

[Unfluffydave]

If you can force them to use the shield booster once you can get them to use the shield booster 30 times. If they run then follow them with a wake scanner and interdict their ass, you want to kill that trader? work for it, this isn't EVE where you just load up a throwaway Catalyst and go ganking.

 

[Veldryn]

Even if the best players were able to find a solution against SCB (Like, 4/6 Dumbfire missiles or Railguns), this doesn't change the fact that NPC Elite Anacondas are not good enough to go through a single SCB, making them easy targets. That's not good, and AI is much harder to improve than individual player's skill.

So, SCB should not be considered only from a PvP point of view. NPCs are powerless against them, and PvE is still at least 90% of the game, which makes it waaaaaaay too easy (And un-rewarding).

 

[ChaseBears]

if you depend on running out of ammo then combat power scales with ability to carry SCBs which is stupid.

and if they're only balanced if someone never gets to use them - that's a low damn standard for balance!

 

[Captain N]

Okay, I see what I've been doing wrong now.

brb off to stuff my ship with all the shield cells I possibly can.

 

[Jake_blakeson]

My view on the in game balancing, is if everyone can buy them then there is no need to balance them, everyone has the same opportunity to take advantage of any so called unbalance aspect of the game, if you think something is too powerful use it. Just because you don't have the skill or smarts to figure out how to overcome a system in game doesn't mean the dev's have to make it so you can, you either use it yourself or work out how to overcome it. Life is not fair, and you should not expect Elite Dangerous to be either.

 

[Veldryn]

My view on the in game balancing, is if everyone can buy them then there is no need to balance them, everyone has the same opportunity to take advantage of any so called unbalance aspect of the game

NPC Elite Anacondas can't. Unfair. Too easy. Boring.

And if they could, then what? We're good for a 3 hours-long battle of SCB. Fair. Boring.

Balance is not just about players. It is also about NPCs. And it is also about balancing Offensive power and Defensive power. SCB miss both points: NPC can't use them, and there is no equivalent for the offensive power (Well... I think Railguns, Plasma Accelerators and Missiles can outdamage a SCB, so it's "kind of" balanced with the offensive power).