Been a few years now, and Elite still feels like an empty shell.

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I disagree, the idea is a brilliant way to offer cross platform compatibility to all platforms. Everyone on any given platform, PC, console, or Mac...has equal input into the galaxy, through whatever action they desire to take...except direct PVP. And that should be ok because PVP is more intrinsically rewarding and doesn't need to be plugged into the game for anything other than that.


If we are talking honestly here, all we ever will get is 'more'. More variety in text, more mission types, more ships, more 'things to do'. But the problem this game will always have for people is that they will see it as 'more of the same'....because the only way this game works is that all PVP will be based on PVE trophy collection. The game feels like a 'spreadsheet game', because that is all it is....one huge spreadsheet that everyone changes numbers in...and every 24 hours, the spreadsheet reports back to the players what they did.

Interesting that you used the spreadsheet analogy, i've used that several times, this is a copy pasted comment of mine on a thread last month:

ED is what i like to call a Spreadsheet game...Loads of people playing alone changing numbers on a sophisticated Spreadsheet (not literally)...Once a week someone clicks "Save" and stuff changes, nothing is real time, its more turn-based.

Im not sure if we are talking about the same thing though, cross compatibility would be just as possible if the game was MP only as it would be with Private/Solo/MP. Im not saying cross compatibility should not be a thing, i think it should....What im saying is that by having a Solo, Multiplayer AND private game mode, all 3 modes had to make concessions for eachother, so non of them are as good as they could be...You cannot be a Bounty Hunter even in Open because your prey can just walce off in Solo...Many features that the game COULD have from being dedicated to a mode it now has to forgo.
 
There are a very few long time nitpicks of the game I'd agree are placeholders that will probably be worked on eventually, but nope, I don't agree with most of the OP's points where it's mostly imo, his misinformed opinion.

intro: "powerplay, multi-crew, engineers as 'horrible'". Not true for a lot of players. Engineers despite being imbalancing by a few percent was accepted and used by the vast majority of players. Multi-crew was basic, yes, but it works and was a first significant step on the way to spacelegs with the holo-me suite avatar modelling and groundlaying framework.

universe: OP's idea of a separate new open smaller universe is flawed. You still can "learn" a few systems and hang out near the systems you prefer. Folks who are working the bgs and powerplay do it all the time. ED was about expanding FFE and the franchise to a modernized graphics update and simulating the entire galaxy. Not doing so would make ED the same as other smaller universe games or even those with fantasy star sets.

Thargoids: OP said he likes certain aspects, then summarily judges thargoids as "failing horribly". It's hardly the case. Despite the thargoid storyline still ongoing there have been changes and gameplay aspects that players have been involved with and actually enjoyed. I'd suspect if the thargoids started hyperdicting everyone in the bubble and attacking any station in the bubble he would just as likely say it was bad thargoids were ruining the game for newbs and a stable universe.

Powerplay: There could be more done to update powerplay. But so far it's working as intended. Hundreds of cutters invovled weekly and hundreds of millions often spent fast-tracking, and up to thousands of ships attacked doesn't sound like little or bored interest in powerplay. A faction system for pvp isn't powerplay. That sounds like something else.

Engineers: "damage" done to boosting? allowing big ships to turn fast? Conda and corvette already did turn faster than cutter without any engineering done. The boost speeds higher average is less than most other genre sci-fi games. In FFE, ships could accelerate up to .03c in normal space. The ships are flying not much more than mach 2. If anything I would think ships should be able to reach mach 10 speeds but it's limited for balance. Anyways, OP complaints about engineering are already being worked on with Beyond and OP seems to overexaggerate the redundant nitpicks when so much is working about the game in the points he mentioned.

ships. Nothing fundamentally wrong with them. The franchise and FFE always had the more expensive ships bigger and more capable. OP conveniently doesn't mention several smaller ships are far more agile and often favorites than the bigger ones i.e. cobra, aspx, python, FAS, FGS, FDL. If anything perhaps there should be missions tailored for small attack fighters such as the eagle or for bigger ships. But it's not like ships in ED are broken , in fact the ships are one of the biggest strengths and uniqueness of the game and a competitive point in the genre.

multicrew: I'd agree the holo-transference idea is not one I would have rationalized, but it seems they needed it to get it going where I hope the transference idea is removed later with working spacelegs. I think FD just didn't have time and resources to continue working on it among so many other demands for improving ED. However, they laid a great working foundation for future spacelegs and multicrew expansion. Again OP is overdoing the hyperbole about how "bad" multicrew is. It works, is stable enough, and the individual avatar design and dressup works in the instancing. A great accomplishment imo, especially in a game of this massive scope especially how multicrew proves the engine background of the entire game worked as a foundational layer for future improvement.

credits: I'd agree if OP really is complaining about the overinflation. But it seems he didn't even bother to mention the many exploits there were nerf-plugged over the past history of ED. I'm not sure if he is complaining about nothing to with too many credits or is really lamenting that there are no more current exploits to make hundreds of millions/hr where he feels he missed out on making more.

"realism and time" : Interesting how OP suggest more time should be needed to effect repairs and refueling yet wants the galaxy simulated to be smaller and less realistic. It makes me wonder there are other things that are working well in the game for realism that everyone likes but OP doesn't mention.

player interaction: more coming with spacelegs in the future.
planetary landings and environments: basically more coming with atmospherics in the future.
OP generally doesn't seem to have much faith or patience that Frontier is working on these stretch goals and will try to get these features working in the next seven, ten years or however long it takes in their continued committment to ED.

travel: same issue . why not have an autopilot -well FD seems to have purposely required player interaction due to policy of keeping the game a balanced mmo I'd suspect. There was a coder on youtube who showed his automated hyperspace jumping with openCV and python, yet said Frontier didn't want autopiloting jumps made available in general. I would hope when spacelegs comes and hirable npc bridge crew, some extra autopiloting feature could come with it.

cqc: not much to say from me, except I think there should be designated arena areas for pvp in open, racing too.

interface and hud: I wouldn't say needs a complete overhaul. It's a good updated interface from the older games in the franchise. Just needs some more options to change coloring, font size, etc.

So in summary, I disagree with many of the OP's points while agreeing on a few of them after OP seems to have gotten over his "broken" "horrible" rant initially in his long post. As he got winded near the end, he started to finally admit there were positives to the game. If he does take a break to play those other sci-fi themed games which only last a hundred hours before their scripting is done ex: ME:A, a well dressed walking survival game like NMS, or a limited 2D mapped universe like the X-universe with illusory backdrops, I've no doubt he'll return to the game anyways because ED is the best there is in the genre.
 
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Go into any "critical" thread though and half of it is the same people arguing why the OP is wrong and the game is great. You seem to be VERY interested in telling us why we're wrong in disliking aspects of the game. Constantly. In every thread you disagree with.

Actually, if you read a bit better you'd notice I'd consistently say that opinions are not wrong. I just say that if you want something that is diametrically opposed to the core design decisions laid out ages before release of 1.0, you are unlikely to get what you want. Not sure why that frustrates you so incredibly much.

We're not interested in telling you you're wrong for loving every aspect of the game.

Again, if you read a bit better you'd notice I'd made plenty of suggestions on how to improve the game. Some of them got taken aboard in the latest beta, others in previous betas. Others not at all, c'est la vie. I dont 'love every aspect of the game'. Its a cheap fallacy, for shame.

That's because most of us are happy to stick to the threads we agree with.

Not sure if that is ironic or not. So it is okay to stick to discussing games you dont agree with, on the forum of games you dont agree with, but its wrong to post counter points? Okay then.

only saw one person going against the thread topic and posting an opposing viewpoint?

You either failed to read again, or you have a pretty hefty ignore list.

In case you still dont get it: I am pointing out that key desires of the OP, with whom I have no beef and got rep from me, are at odds with fundamental design decisions of ED and as such extremely unlikely to change. If you want to be constructive, you may want to take that into account. If you just want to moan with likeminded people, go ahead. If you want to be safe from opposing viewpoints, use the ignore list.
 
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That's your interpretation, man. Moreover, there seems to be more than one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism


So....

No.

Dude, if you don't understand the OP, rather than feeling the need to wildly speculate, why not just ask him to clarify? (Again).

I am not talking about him. YOU said what you thought he meant, and I held YOU to it. YOU then denied YOUR words, which YOU literally said, and I quoted YOUR words in case amnesia struck again. Dont blame others, thats even weaker. Ah well, its getting late. I suggest you get a last irrelevant link in to a subject you dont understand and we call it a night. :)
 
I am not talking about him. YOU said what you thought he meant, and I held YOU to it. YOU then denied YOUR words, which YOU literally said, and I quoted YOUR words in case amnesia struck again. Dont blame others, thats even weaker. Ah well, its getting late. I suggest you get a last irrelevant link in to a subject you dont understand and we call it a night. :)

[video=youtube;zzDOpvukhNo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzDOpvukhNo[/video]
 
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Minigames are a cancer. I'm actually glad we don't have that idiocy to deal with here.

If there's one thing I hated most about Star Trek Online, it was the ridiculously moronic minigames you had to endure for dailies and special events. Not having them in Elite Dangerous is a good thing.

They may have certain niche applications they still fit into, but for the most part, I feel they're overused as replacements for real content.
 

Rafe Zetter

Banned
Lots of words, might as well have written 'i want to play another game'

Lots of expression of a trivial understanding of the game.

He does want to play another game, the one FDev told us about in the KS.

I'm not sure what he is saying is based on a "trivial understanding on the game" - it's clear english isn't OP's first language so some leeway is merited on explanations.

Lots of complaints about the original design decisions, which were all present during the undoubtedly long time you have played the game

Yes lots of complaints - but can you deny OP's echoing what's been said over and over and over and over again in the years since launch?

Nope.

This is just his turn - he's obviously reached that same point that SO MANY others have (and written about) whereby he's finding it difficult to ignore the flaws in the game.

What he wrote is pretty much a carbon copy of hundreds of other similar posts - but just because they are the same doesn't make them any less valid now, years later, Dommarraa.

There is an old saying "no matter how much you try to pretend, at some point the truth will always make itself known"
 

Rafe Zetter

Banned
No, he just typed more. "Cut open from solo and make everything persistent so better servers!" isnt a deep thought.

Its okay to just say "I like x", but the whole drama around it is weird. Especially when what yoy want has been explicitly said never to happen way before beta even began.


OK - first off most novels could be boiled down to a few sentences if that's the particular game you wanted to play.

*spoiler alert*

"Frodo and his best mate left the Shire carrying the ring, he travelled a bit, he met some Elves; they were nice. He travelled some more, he met a guide that showed him a shortcut, he got to the mountain and had a fight with the guide and the ring got destroyed. THE END. PS some other people did some other stuff as well but the ring got destroyed, which is the main reason for all the other stuff".

Since when has any statement from FDev involving "explicitly said will never happen" meant anything? FDev have consistently broken more than a few of these, AND the flipside of those which are "this WILL happen" but have given no timelines of any kind and have yet to implement them YEARS later.

I think any person who believes whatever FDev says has been set in stone, never to change is both blind and foolish, who has clearly never read a game EULA in his life.

Evidence has proven FDev will do what they will, regardless of player desires (DDF), good gameplay choices (CqC, powerplay, engineers, multicrew) or going back on what's been said to the original KS backers (offline mode, not getting into bed with 3rd party companies who impose design choices or development limitations on the game - Sony & MSoft, and others).

So what was your point again?
 

Rafe Zetter

Banned
Haha, yeah, I always laugh too when other people dont like stuff that I dont like. [haha] Ah well, have to go to r/beanies to tell them that beanies are stupid. Great fabric, shame they couldn't make a decent piece of headgear with it. Who is with me!? [haha]

And dont tell me I should just wear other stuff. I love headgear, so beanies are stupid because why else would I think it is stupid? The sad thing is designers are so arrogant they cant admit their mistakes and make the hats I want them to make. Its because they dont wear their own beanies, otherwise they knew how dumb they are. Trust me, I am sure sales charts of beanies will plummet in the next few months, beanies are dead! Anyway, brace yourself, I can hear those lame beanie-white knights stampeding over the horizon, lol.

^^ reductio ad absurdum. ^^

in spades.

You're slipping Sleut if that's your best shot at a reply to his comment.

Beanies do exactly whet they claim, no more no less.

ED claimed to be a game whereby a players actions have a bearing on the wider universe, where choices matter.

But in all aspects apart from powerplay - that is basically a text based mini game - nothing you do has any phyical or ecomomical effect of any kind.

You could mine a million tonnes of minerals - even the truly rare ones - for a decade and drop all of that ore all at once into the economy of an economically poor system and it wouldn't even notice - the economy nor the system.

You could wipe out every pirate or bad influence in a system and keep a permanent defense force stationed there for a decade and that system won't change from an anarchic state to a democracy.

You could kill every single Thargoid in the bubble in one massive show of force and keep doing it month after month and they wouldn't retreat from Human space.

However, because nothing is persistent - each player is thier own universe, being created and destroyed second by second - NOTHING MATTERS.

You can't even write your name in the dust of a moon, because there are no tracks to be made, you can't even backtrack the path of where you came from if you get lost.

There is no "trail to be blazed" because there is no trail being laid.
 
Minigames are a cancer. I'm actually glad we don't have that idiocy to deal with here.

If there's one thing I hated most about Star Trek Online, it was the ridiculously moronic minigames you had to endure for dailies and special events. Not having them in Elite Dangerous is a good thing.

They may have certain niche applications they still fit into, but for the most part, I feel they're overused as replacements for real content.

I've always viewed "minigames" as a reason to keep people engaged and interacting with "time sinks". There's a simple justification for utilizing them in a game like say "Star Trek Online" where the goal is to get and keep subscribers. In ED there's no subscription- you simply pay for the game and play it for as long or little as you like.

Keeping people "engaged" isn't necessary for a game like this. You've already sold the game and have the money, so if they decide to "up and leave" you don't really lose anything. What you do need, though- is a reason to have purchased the game to begin with. Most people do it for the flight model/sim value because there's really nothing else out there that offers it in a huge galaxy as a space sim. SC may one day "be" there, but at present it's a mere shadow of a game.

Anyone who plays this game for thousands of hours- and then responds with "But I didn't get my money's worth!" really has some critical thinking to do on their own perspective of "value". ED didn't make you a "contract for eternal joy"- they sold you a game. If you feel like you haven't gotten "value" out of that after thousands of hours spent, I've got valuable information for you-nothing will satisfy you ever.
 
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Rafe Zetter

Banned
Pretty much.

How many years does it take for some of these people to finally admit that ED is never going to be a game they like or appreciate?

I've never spent more than 30 days with a game I disliked as much as most of these people dislike ED.

Whatever... TLDR.

By far the biggest reason is the carrot that FDev have become very adept at dangling, without actually saying much, and many of the players keep following out of optimistic hope that FDev will eventually do what they said, all the while ignoring FDevs track record of not delivering what was said "but something that looks like it" but when cut open, turns out to be a turd that's been rolled in glitter.

It's the same mentality as the mistress and the married man - for some it can take YEARS AND YEARS of broken promises for them to eventually realise that it's all lies and they are just deluding themselves "it'll happen...one day" *cough, 10 year plan*.

It's also REALLY not helped by those who keep reinforcing the lies and delusion "keep in there, don't give up, one day it'll happen *SOON(TM)*" because they are so immersed in the coolade they are wearing bathers and floatation devices.

If you want a better set of evidence for this - you should read some of the STEAM reviews for the game ARK. There are people who've written reviews of the game with thousands of hours in it, just as ED, and have finally discovered the game, at it's core, is flawed and how the devs ignore problems despite thousands of plea's for the SAME ISSUES to be fixed from it's players who ponied up the cash when it was alpha to support the game and it's vision.

Human nature doesn't like to walk away from stuff they have invested so much time and emotional energy into - and game Devs like FDev rely on it to stay in business.

It would have been interesting to have made a poll "If you knew the state ED would be in now three years later, would you have still bought it / backed it?"
 

Rafe Zetter

Banned
It means the OP has no understanding of what an engine even is, doesnt get what needs to be done with the networking and why that is impossible, but feels like it should happen anyway. When you are this clueless and ignorant, being verbose isnt a plus.

Two words - Eve Online.

and some more words - EO has almost 30,000 systems, each system has a minimum of 1 station, some of them more than a dozen. It has a record of 51,000 concurrent players, and a record of 7,548 individual accounts in the largest battle ever recorded (so far).

This is of course not using the P2P system, but FDev made that choice based on price alone, because for every other respect it's been a serious issue. They have made 25 MILLION GBP in profit, they can afford a server or 5. SC isn't going to be ready for at least 3 years by most peoples reckoning, and it'll require work after that. If FDev were serious about that "support for 10 years**" statement, moving to server based delivery would be a very good business choice.

The only way people can agree with this is if they dont understand much of it either, or when they are people like blackcompany or NMS who will agree with every complaint by default.

I'm pretty sure that's not the case, only your perceived opinion, based on your internal bias.

** by 10 years support I mean 10 years after ALL CONTENT hs been delivered, not 10 years since start of development, otherwise we're only halfway through and some content will only be accessible for a year (or less, going by FDev's production rate) at most before that "10 years" is up.
 

Rafe Zetter

Banned
*sigh*

Another notch on the wall for yet another topic about the same damn thing.

Another disenfranchised individual who couldn't find a narrative to be entertained with and has no capacity for creating their own.

I wonder how many more of these we're going to get. Obviously everyone is jumping on the "Galaxy Wide and Inch Deep" train right now when every time people tell me something is missing and start talking about how X is better, the only difference I can find is that X has an overarching narrative which for some reason is the missing component that everyone is looking for.

*sigh* and another post from you being condescending.

We'll get as many of these posts as there are players who feel this way - if you don't like that, move along. Please.

Every post like this is valid - because it marks the point YET ANOTHER longterm player sees the true flaws in the game - the fact that almost all of them have a wall of text just shows they have been thinking about it for some time, and feel it necessary to write the wall of text to get it off thier chest. People don't write walls of text for pleasure, not even me.

Adhock, you have been just as guilty of the "wall of text" AND "going on and on and on about the same subject" when it suits you, so you have no place calling another into question. There's a word for that, but I'm not saying it because the mods have developed an itchy trigger finger where my posts are concerned it seems.

As far as the "jumping on the mile wide, inch deep train" comment - that particular train has been running non stop pretty much since about 3-4 months after the game was launched when it became obvious - nothing new or current about that particular topic, the train just got another passenger is all; you'd know that if you'd been around from the start.

We will have to see what this next year brings with the "core improvements", but going by the beta for engineers and the feedback on here for that, I doubt many are standing up and getting ready to step off that particular train just yet.

But by all means report my reply Adhock - the more you do it the more obvious it becomes you've got a vendetta.
 
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