Game Discussions Bethesda Softworks Starfield Space RPG

I've been playing for a week and I haredly had any space encounters. I haven't tried going into pirate controlled space yet but the lack of ship action makes the space part of the skill tree almost redundant. I don't think modding will help though, the game wasn't designed to do that and I'm predicting the more mods are made to promote space gameplay the more apparent it will be that the game was not designed for that...actually this sounds like another space game people had been hyping about.
The Tech part of the skill tree is important if you want to fly, buy or build a significantly more powerful ship. You need to get Piloting skill level 3 for flying class B ships, and level 4 for flying class C ships. If you want to build a new ship, you need to advance the Starship Design skill for buying bigger modules. Unfortunately, Starship Design is an Expert level skill, which means you must first get several other skills from lower levels in the Tech skill tree.

I'm currently at character level 28, I have Piloting skill level 2, and I'm still two level-ups short from Starship Design 1. So I'm still flying the starter ship, though I have upgraded its components as much as I can.
 
Last edited:

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
I've been playing for a week and I haredly had any space encounters. I haven't tried going into pirate controlled space yet but the lack of ship action makes the space part of the skill tree almost redundant. I don't think modding will help though, the game wasn't designed to do that and I'm predicting the more mods are made to promote space gameplay the more apparent it will be that the game was not designed for that...actually this sounds like another space game people had been hyping about.
You might yet get surprised at mods. Not yet though, we need Creation Kit 2 and then a few months for the modding community to figure it out, as its a new version.

But, judging by what they did with big, advanced mods for previous Bethesda games, we might get a proper space gameplay.

There are already mods that introduce seamless in-system flight and they do it really well, considering there are no official modding tools for SF yet.
 
The Tech part of the skill tree is important if you want to fly, buy or build a significantly more powerful ship. You need to get Piloting skill level 3 for flying class B ships, and level 4 for flying class C ships. If you want to build a new ship, you need to advance the Starship Design skill for buying bigger modules. Unfortunately, Starship Design is an Expert level skill, which means you must first get several other skills from lower levels in the Tech skill tree.

I'm currently at character level 28, I have Piloting skill level 2, and I'm still two level-ups short from Starship Design 1. So I'm still flying the starter ship, though I have upgraded its components as much as I can.
I see the whole requirement for Piloting to unlock ship parts as make work/grind. Logically I should only need Starship Design for the more advanced stuff. So if someone could make a mod that moves Starship Design up a level and make it unlock parts, that'd be great.

Parts are already linked to character level, having multiple trees to unlock ship parts is just grind.
In lore, it does make sense manufaturers would be more willing to sell customized ships to someone who made a name of themselves and for Piloting to be a requirement since it's leveled based on ships destroyed.
 
You might yet get surprised at mods. Not yet though, we need Creation Kit 2 and then a few months for the modding community to figure it out, as its a new version.

But, judging by what they did with big, advanced mods for previous Bethesda games, we might get a proper space gameplay.

There are already mods that introduce seamless in-system flight and they do it really well, considering there are no official modding tools for SF yet.
Agree, and if i can bring in ED for a moment, why FDEV didn't made boarding a thing when they designed EDO is very strange, at least on NPC ships like the big freighters and other none playable ships, also why combat in zero g wasn't even considerate? I really like the design of the ships in SF, and also the combat inside the ships, I've done plenty of that as a pirate of course we know that you don't enter the ships, it's a new map that's loaded however in a SP game it doesn't matter so the illusion is kept intact, so modding will be something I'm hoping for and I would even pay hard cash for a good mod.
 
Agree, and if i can bring in ED for a moment, why FDEV didn't made boarding a thing when they designed EDO is very strange, at least on NPC ships like the big freighters and other none playable ships, also why combat in zero g wasn't even considerate? I really like the design of the ships in SF, and also the combat inside the ships, I've done plenty of that as a pirate of course we know that you don't enter the ships, it's a new map that's loaded however in a SP game it doesn't matter so the illusion is kept intact, so modding will be something I'm hoping for and I would even pay hard cash for a good mod.

One of the mods for Starfield actually corrects a gravity conundrum, now heavier gravity means stuff you carry has more mass, so you can't carry as much, Bethesda, probably for game play reasons, completely ignored gravity in that regard, but now you can make it work as it should, so FDEV is not the only one who fudges gravity for game play reasons. I suspect no zero gravity combat is for a reason, and that is that ED doesn't load a different map, and boarding should be impossible when the ships and players are actually moving in relation to each other. As someone said in another thread, you get boarded, you hit boost, all the boarders die from impact with bulkheads etc, or get burnt up in exhaust gases, or die of any of a number of other reasons.
 
As someone said in another thread, you get boarded, you hit boost, all the boarders die from impact with bulkheads etc, or get burnt up in exhaust gases, or die of any of a number of other reasons.

Probably why boarding only works in Starfield when the target's engines have been disabled.

Odyssey could easily have gone down a similar route, and I suspect the inability to board ships has to do with the effort in implementing ship interiors as well as the financial/legal implications of allowing ships to be captured.
 
Probably why boarding only works in Starfield when the target's engines have been disabled.

Odyssey could easily have gone down a similar route, and I suspect the inability to board ships has to do with the effort in implementing ship interiors as well as the financial/legal implications of allowing ships to be captured.

Well yes, but that's just a workaround right? In space it doesn't matter if your engines have been disabled, in theory you are still moving at the same velocity you were, then the boarders have to match course and speed, and disabling engines simply doesn't mean a ship is incapable of moving to prevent boarders. What if they use attitude thrusters to start the ship spinning, or just as the boarders are ready to board use emergency over-ride to bust open a hatch and vent atmosphere to send the ship careening in a random direction. Boarding ships in space is just a throwback to the good old pirate days of sailing ships and grappling hooks. And then of course there's the old self destruct, you are going to die anyway, the pirates are getting the goods, as soon as they board blow the ship, and hopefully take the enemy ship with you.

Yes I can see boarding megaships and other large and slow moving objects like stations but I simply can't see it applying in any sensible fashion to an actual pilot-able smallish ship, it makes little sense to allow it, unless the crew being boarded is guaranteed being left alive and released afterwards and thus surrendering, and are they really going to risk that or simply fight to the death?
 
Well yes, but that's just a workaround right? In space it doesn't matter if your engines have been disabled, in theory you are still moving at the same velocity you were, then the boarders have to match course and speed, and disabling engines simply doesn't mean a ship is incapable of moving to prevent boarders. What if they use attitude thrusters to start the ship spinning, or just as the boarders are ready to board use emergency over-ride to bust open a hatch and vent atmosphere to send the ship careening in a random direction. Boarding ships in space is just a throwback to the good old pirate days of sailing ships and grappling hooks. And then of course there's the old self destruct, you are going to die anyway, the pirates are getting the goods, as soon as they board blow the ship, and hopefully take the enemy ship with you.

Yes I can see boarding megaships and other large and slow moving objects like stations but I simply can't see it applying in any sensible fashion to an actual pilot-able smallish ship, it makes little sense to allow it, unless the crew being boarded is guaranteed being left alive and released afterwards and thus surrendering, and are they really going to risk that or simply fight to the death?

Indeed, boarding of pilotable/maneuverable space ships is a bit silly.
And indeed there is no guarantee a pirate boarding your ship will let you live.
Why would they do that? Crew is ballast, unless they can be sold as slaves - which could be worse than dying while fighting them or by self-destructing your ship hoping you take the pirate ship with you

but... gameplay
yarr
 
One of the mods for Starfield actually corrects a gravity conundrum, now heavier gravity means stuff you carry has more mass, so you can't carry as much, Bethesda, probably for game play reasons, completely ignored gravity in that regard, but now you can make it work as it should,

Not sure this is a "correction". Mass is mass and doesn't increase in a stronger gravitational field, and in the core game the gravity already affects how quickly you use up oxygen when running or moving, so a high mass of stuff is easier to carry on low gravity worlds.
 
One of the mods for Starfield actually corrects a gravity conundrum, now heavier gravity means stuff you carry has more mass, so you can't carry as much, Bethesda, probably for game play reasons, completely ignored gravity in that regard, but now you can make it work as it should, so FDEV is not the only one who fudges gravity for game play reasons. I suspect no zero gravity combat is for a reason, and that is that ED doesn't load a different map, and boarding should be impossible when the ships and players are actually moving in relation to each other. As someone said in another thread, you get boarded, you hit boost, all the boarders die from impact with bulkheads etc, or get burnt up in exhaust gases, or die of any of a number of other reasons.
Not if your engines are out, I mean it's the same you do in SF?
and if your engines are out in ED it's full stop anyway.
Indeed, boarding of pilotable/maneuverable space ships is a bit silly.
And indeed there is no guarantee a pirate boarding your ship will let you live.
Why would they do that? Crew is ballast, unless they can be sold as slaves - which could be worse than dying while fighting them or by self-destructing your ship hoping you take the pirate ship with you

but... gameplay
yarr

as i said, none playable ships, could be ships drifting in space for some reason, and most players in ED avoid pvp so it's more to expand the PVE gameplay.
 
Last edited:
Not if your engines are out, I mean it's the same you do in SF?
and if your engines are out in ED it's full stop anyway.


as i said, none playable ships, could be ships drifting in space for some reason, and most players in ED avoid pvp so it's more to expand the PVE gameplay.

Except that maneuvering thrusters are never part of the main drive system on any ship, that would be silly indeed, because to make a minor course correction you would need to fire up your main thrusters. This is why in FA off you can change the orientation of the ship without changing the direction of travel, because the two are entirely different systems, it would make zero sense to use the same system. It's only full stop in ED if you aren't using FA off, you keep drifting along with FA off even if your engines are gone, which is why people keep asking for grappling hooks or tractor beams to stop ships moving.
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
Not sure this is a "correction". Mass is mass and doesn't increase in a stronger gravitational field, and in the core game the gravity already affects how quickly you use up oxygen when running or moving, so a high mass of stuff is easier to carry on low gravity worlds.
Mass is constant, but the weight changes with gravity. Try lifting 100 kg block on Earth and on the Moon :) You would be able to do it on the Moon easily, regardless of mass being the same. So it does make perfect sense that you can carry more stuff in lower G environment.

Ergo - it is a correction towards realism :)
 
Mass is constant, but the weight changes with gravity. Try lifting 100 kg block on Earth and on the Moon :) You would be able to do it on the Moon easily, regardless of mass being the same. So it does make perfect sense that you can carry more stuff in lower G environment.

Ergo - it is a correction towards realism :)

It depends what property of the mass is deemed to be the key factor in determining if you're "encumbered". If it's the weight, sure. But you'll be dealing with 100+ kgs of inertia no matter what the gravity, which isn't going to be a walk in the park. Most likely a combination of both factors would come into play. The effect is already reflected in lower oxygen demands in lower gravity, and I think in zero gravity you can float at a unifrom speed with no oxygen cost.

I think it works pretty well as it is. On a low gravity planet I'm technically "encumbered", but the effect that actually has it minimised to a significant degree.
 
Well yes, but that's just a workaround right? In space it doesn't matter if your engines have been disabled, in theory you are still moving at the same velocity you were, then the boarders have to match course and speed, and disabling engines simply doesn't mean a ship is incapable of moving to prevent boarders.

Matching velocity in any close combat scenario where one party loses thrust would be easy. If they were ever in protracted proximity that puts a pretty major limit on their peak relative velocities and a ship with no engines either cannot accelerate, or is limited to much lower acceleration.

What if they use attitude thrusters to start the ship spinning, or just as the boarders are ready to board use emergency over-ride to bust open a hatch and vent atmosphere to send the ship careening in a random direction.

None of that is going to produce multiple-gs of acceleration like firing up the main drives plausibly could. Both the specific impulse and total thrust of cold gas at 1atm or less is pathetic and conventional chemical propellants that might work for maneuvering when the main engines are out won't be much better.

The space shuttle orbiter has a lot of internal volume taken up by it's OCM/RSC thrusters and associated propellant and cannot generate anywhere close to a single g of acceleration with them; burning it's entire propellant reserve also isn't enough for even a single km/s total delta-v. Explosive decompression of the entire habitable area might be able to knock someone over or push them into a wall for a moment, but it wouldn't hurt anyone in a spacesuit (let alone an armored combat version), and that could only be done once. It could probably spin itself pretty fast, maybe even in a way that would make latching on difficult or impossible...but that would be counterproductive; if your ship is screwed, your best hope of survival is the enemy boarding attemp.

Boarding ships in space is just a throwback to the good old pirate days of sailing ships and grappling hooks.

It's not any more implausible than manned smallish ships existing at all.

And then of course there's the old self destruct, you are going to die anyway, the pirates are getting the goods, as soon as they board blow the ship, and hopefully take the enemy ship with you.

Death wouldn't be certain unless the ship is already in a condition that it's not worth trying to board and the attacker wants to ensure there are no witnesses. Fighting off a boarding attempt while trying to get engines and/or weapons back online makes as much sense as anything, as does trying for a reversal where you get your people on the attacker's ship to disable or capture it...a counter boarding action is probably the best chance one has when one's vessel has already been disabled. Most people, I imagine, would also take their chances in personal combat, or as hostages to be ransomed off, rather than die in an attempt take their opponents with them...and a ship so disabled as to be able to be boarded probably doesn't have much in the way of reliable self-destruct options left either. To use the Starfield example, helium-3 is pretty damned inert (outside of a working fusion reactor or grav drive), so unless the vessel has a dedicated self-destruct system powerful enough to ensure the loss of a nearby vessel (which sounds like an enormous safety and security risk), about the only thing that could even be done to damage the attacking vessel would be to detonate one's own ordianace, which likely isn't in the crew compartments and probably isn't on weapon systems that still work (otherwise they would have been used sooner).

Except that maneuvering thrusters are never part of the main drive system on any ship, that would be silly indeed, because to make a minor course correction you would need to fire up your main thrusters. This is why in FA off you can change the orientation of the ship without changing the direction of travel, because the two are entirely different systems, it would make zero sense to use the same system. It's only full stop in ED if you aren't using FA off, you keep drifting along with FA off even if your engines are gone, which is why people keep asking for grappling hooks or tractor beams to stop ships moving.

In Elite: Dangerous, you lose your engines you lose your thrusters.

This makes perfect sense in the Elite, and many other settings, even some pretty hard sci-fi ones, because the only way to make efficient use of one's fuel is with a fantasically high specific impulse drive system, which probably means at least fusion power, if not something even better.

No doubt there are backups, but since they'd need many orders of magnitude more propellant to move the ship the same amount, they wouldn't be used if the main engine is in working order, unless one is worried about damaging nearby objects, because they'd be so inefficient. They also aren't likely to be powerful enough to stop a ship that does have working main-engine-powered thrusters from matching any evasive manuver, and structual strength of the docking hardware permitting, completely negating any weak chemical or cold-gas thruster system.
 
As someone said in another thread, you get boarded, you hit boost, all the boarders die from impact with bulkheads etc, or get burnt up in exhaust gases, or die of any of a number of other reasons.

Boost might very well simply just not work if there’s another ship attached, the same way it doesn’t work when the landing gear is extended.
 
I've been playing for a week and I haredly had any space encounters. I haven't tried going into pirate controlled space yet but the lack of ship action makes the space part of the skill tree almost redundant.
It's odd how experiences differ. I am getting space run-ins with 3 different "enemy" factions... maybe once every 5 to 7 times I travel in space. I have even been meeting gangs of pirates that area "actually" pirates... They don't shoot (unless I do). They scan and demand a portion.

Worth mentioning that I'm on good terms with the powers that be, so nobody is really hunting me.

And I am traveling in a very non-fast travel way, as much as possible. For example, when I want to visit another moon orbiting a planet, I never just select a landing spot on the new moon from where I am currently landed. I first take off to orbit (chance of encounters), set a destination to the new moon and cruise there (again chance of encounters), and THEN choose a landing spot.
 
Back
Top Bottom