Game Discussions Bethesda Softworks Starfield Space RPG

[Morbad]

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ABnU6Zo0uA


Not surprising from a technical or marketing perspective, but interesting the minimum and recommended system requirements seem to favor NVIDA. Maybe they want to make sure that any supported AMD GPU is absolutely capable of running it well?

Anyway, there are some other implications to this announcement. Namely, probably no official support for DLSS, DLAA, XeSS or frame generation for a while, if ever. Also, if any hardware accelerated ray tracing effects are implemented, they will probably be on the subtle side, though this is mostly good news for everyone as NVIDIA partnered titles with a focus on hardware DXR/VKR tend to squander performance just to make AMD look bad, even if it makes the experience worse than it should be on NVIDIA's own hardware.

Why this particular game gonna be this amazing release to fix it all for Bughesda?

It may well not, but as long as walking up stairs doesn't have a one-in-four chance of the floor sealing off the stairwell behind you and walking down them doesn't have a similar chance of dropping my character into the void, it will at least be better than Daggerfall's release!

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

Talking about scary AI...I was sent this YouTube link via Onkel Neal from Subsim.com...I've been a subscriber for over 20 years, anyone who's a fan of subsims of any type will know the place...one stop shop for all things submarine.

Anyways, he's recently added a chatGPT based AI chatbot named Wendy to help around the place...this video is Neal chatting in real time with the AI chatbot about AI

Have you had a potter on his game (Wolfpack) yet?

 

[Mole HD]

Have you had a potter on his game (Wolfpack) yet?

Yup...a while back though. Neal sent me an invite so we messed around with some of the subsim regulars for a bit.

 

[Star Wanderer]

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ABnU6Zo0uA


Not surprising from a technical or marketing perspective, but interesting the minimum and recommended system requirements seem to favor NVIDA. Maybe they want to make sure that any supported AMD GPU is absolutely capable of running it well?

Anyway, there are some other implications to this announcement. Namely, probably no official support for DLSS, DLAA, XeSS or frame generation for a while, if ever. Also, if any hardware accelerated ray tracing effects are implemented, they will probably be on the subtle side, though this is mostly good news for everyone as NVIDIA partnered titles with a focus on hardware DXR/VKR tend to squander performance just to make AMD look bad, even if it makes the experience worse than it should be on NVIDIA's own hardware.



It may well not, but as long as walking up stairs doesn't have a one-in-four chance of the floor sealing off the stairwell behind you and walking down them doesn't have a similar chance of dropping my character into the void, it will at least be better than Daggerfall's release!

So no DLSS. Reminds me of recent Star Wars game that went same path with AMD, and got terrible performance and reviews because of it.
Even more reasons not to pre-order.

 

[Morbad]

So no DLSS. Reminds me of recent Star Wars game that went same path with AMD, and got terrible performance and reviews because of it.
Even more reasons not to pre-order.

Jedi Survior didn't get poor reviews because of AMD's sponsorship and that sponsorship, even if it delayed an official DLSS implementation, almost certainly wasn't responsible for underlying performance issues with it.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Yup...a while back though. Neal sent me an invite so we messed around with some of the subsim regulars for a bit.

Wolfpack was done by a subsim.com veteran? Had a look at it again recently and saw the compressor is now in the right place. Did some shenanigans when it released with keeping decks awash but the deck gun still be able to fire. Iffy thing but I managed not to drown the dude and we went speed boat attack against destroyers. It's a bit unsettling when you can't see what's happening but apparently the AI targets center mass which we kept submerged.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Wolfpack was done by a subsim.com veteran? Had a look at it again recently and saw the compressor is now in the right place. Did some shenanigans when it released with keeping decks awash but the deck gun still be able to fire. Iffy thing but I managed not to drown the dude and we went speed boat attack against destroyers. It's a bit unsettling when you can't see what's happening but apparently the AI targets center mass which we kept submerged.

Try how WOWS handles subs...

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Try how WOWS handles subs...

We basically used an exploit. Also needed some dedication, there was a rather small marging at the depth planes and needed constant juggling ("Tiefe halten, LI!").
Anyway, you get an idea how awful 30 men in a small tube must have felt with the possibility of one dude outside going Leroy Jenkins for surface attack.

 

[Northpin]

Not surprising from a technical or marketing perspective, but interesting the minimum and recommended system requirements seem to favor NVIDA. Maybe they want to make sure that any supported AMD GPU is absolutely capable of running it well?

Anyway, there are some other implications to this announcement. Namely, probably no official support for DLSS, DLAA, XeSS or frame generation for a while, if ever. Also, if any hardware accelerated ray tracing effects are implemented, they will probably be on the subtle side, though this is mostly good news for everyone as NVIDIA partnered titles with a focus on hardware DXR/VKR tend to squander performance just to make AMD look bad, even if it makes the experience worse than it should be on NVIDIA's own hardware.

Indeed, no surprising at all considering XBox is running on AMD hardware.
And they definitely need very good optimizations (and FSR 2.0) to be able to run it on XB Series X at 4k and XB Series S at 1440p

 

[Star Wanderer]

Jedi Survior didn't get poor reviews because of AMD's sponsorship and that sponsorship, even if it delayed an official DLSS implementation, almost certainly wasn't responsible for underlying performance issues with it.

There was a story about it: https://www.gamesradar.com/star-war...ter-major-breakthrough-with-modders-dlss-fix/

Even media begins to pick up on AMD hostility towards gamers: https://wccftech.com/whats-up-with-the-missing-nvidia-dlss-support-in-amd-sponsored-fsr-titles/

If simple game like Jedi Survivors had issues, which DLSS could have addressed easily, than Starfield would have 10x more, because of games ambition and scale, and lack of DLSS support.

Calling it now, it's going to a be disaster launch. To many signs point in to the wrong direction.

Edit:
Just checked the news, and yes, media is picking up players dissatisfaction with AMD sponsorship:

Starfield's "exclusive PC partner" has players worried about performance and ray tracing

PC players are worried about DLSS and RTX features going missing

www.gamesradar.com

Starfield partners with AMD and oh boy, the internet is not happy

Some folk are mourning a hypothetical lack of DLSS support, some expecting more classic Bethesda launch jank, some fear Jedi: Survivor level issues, and some just straight out call for a boycott of AMD.

www.pcgamer.com

Starfield’s New Exclusive Partnership Just Made PC Gamers Angry

AMD’s deal with Bethesda’s open world RPG has PC gamers worried

kotaku.com

 

[Morbad]

There was a story about it: https://www.gamesradar.com/star-war...ter-major-breakthrough-with-modders-dlss-fix/

There were a lot of stories about it, and if any of them imply that the game is going to be bad because of AMD, that's how you know they're nonsense.

It's obvious that performance is going to improve with frame generation, but it should have run perfectly fine without it.

Even media begins to pick up on AMD hostility towards gamers: https://wccftech.com/whats-up-with-the-missing-nvidia-dlss-support-in-amd-sponsored-fsr-titles/

AMD isn't particularly hostile toward gamers. Yes, they almost certainly tell studios they sponsor not to include proprietary competing features that will one up their own (and DLSS is generally the superior upscaler, in areas other than compatibility), but they aren't actively sabotaging performance on competitor hardware nor are they mandating the inclusion of features that competitor hardware cannot run acceptably (they don't have any).

If simple game like Jedi Survivors had issues, which DLSS could have addressed easily

DLSS shouldn't be necessary to address any issues. Recent incarnations are generally quality upscalers that include good anti-aliasing, but it's not the only example of either of those things and if any title categorically needs upscaling to run acceptably, something is profoundly wrong with it. Even if you want to run the game on a potato, FSR will work acceptably well for that; it's not going to be an outdated implmentation.

Calling it now, it's going to a be disaster launch. To many signs point in to the wrong direction.

AMD sponsorship isn't one of them.

Just checked the news, and yes, media is picking up players dissatisfaction with AMD sponsorship:

Starfield's "exclusive PC partner" has players worried about performance and ray tracing

PC players are worried about DLSS and RTX features going missing

www.gamesradar.com

Starfield partners with AMD and oh boy, the internet is not happy

Some folk are mourning a hypothetical lack of DLSS support, some expecting more classic Bethesda launch jank, some fear Jedi: Survivor level issues, and some just straight out call for a boycott of AMD.

www.pcgamer.com

Starfield’s New Exclusive Partnership Just Made PC Gamers Angry

AMD’s deal with Bethesda’s open world RPG has PC gamers worried

kotaku.com

Players are dissatisfied because they don't know anything and are afflicted with an unjustifiable anti-AMD bias and/or an irrational obsession over DLSS and a high-level of ray tracing...things that were never announced.

 

[Star Wanderer]

There were a lot of stories about it, and if any of them imply that the game is going to be bad because of AMD, that's how you know they're nonsense.

It's obvious that performance is going to improve with frame generation, but it should have run perfectly fine without it.



AMD isn't particularly hostile toward gamers. Yes, they almost certainly tell studios they sponsor not to include proprietary competing features that will one up their own (and DLSS is generally the superior upscaler, in areas other than compatibility), but they aren't actively sabotaging performance on competitor hardware nor are they mandating the inclusion of features that competitor hardware cannot run acceptably (they don't have any).



DLSS shouldn't be necessary to address any issues. Recent incarnations are generally quality upscalers that include good anti-aliasing, but it's not the only example of either of those things and if any title categorically needs upscaling to run acceptably, something is profoundly wrong with it. Even if you want to run the game on a potato, FSR will work acceptably well for that; it's not going to be an outdated implmentation.



AMD sponsorship isn't one of them.



Players are dissatisfied because they don't know anything and are afflicted with an unjustifiable anti-AMD bias and/or an irrational obsession over DLSS and a high-level of ray tracing...things that were never announced.

I think everyone wants a great performance launches like for example Atomic Heart game had this year. But it's far from reality for many game developers, even big shots in the gaming industry.
Got to use tool that are available in situations like that, and Nvidia DLSS is always available. .
But irony is, it won't matter at the end, since people would still buy it even in broken state. Too desparate for a good game and Starfield looks like to hit the nail here.

 

[lysan]

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ABnU6Zo0uA


Not surprising from a technical or marketing perspective, but interesting the minimum and recommended system requirements seem to favor NVIDA. Maybe they want to make sure that any supported AMD GPU is absolutely capable of running it well?

Anyway, there are some other implications to this announcement. Namely, probably no official support for DLSS, DLAA, XeSS or frame generation for a while, if ever. Also, if any hardware accelerated ray tracing effects are implemented, they will probably be on the subtle side, though this is mostly good news for everyone as NVIDIA partnered titles with a focus on hardware DXR/VKR tend to squander performance just to make AMD look bad, even if it makes the experience worse than it should be on NVIDIA's own hardware.



It may well not, but as long as walking up stairs doesn't have a one-in-four chance of the floor sealing off the stairwell behind you and walking down them doesn't have a similar chance of dropping my character into the void, it will at least be better than Daggerfall's release!

What I don't understand is the spec for PC, RT6800XT or RTX2080 ??? WUT is that a typo?
Anyway teaming up with AMD clearly leans to the AMD GPU and I'm actually looking to get a RX6750XT GPU to replace my old GTX1080OC card.

 

[lysan]

I'm with you. I'm tempering my hype until I see some lets play videos.
It's strange though because the game hadn't even entered my radar until I saw the trailer a month ago. I think its the open world, shooting people and ship customization thing that hooked me. Gives me RDR2 vibe, with the ship as my horse. I don't care about much else the game advertised.

Base building, massive ship customisation, ship interiors, ship crew, EVA where you can dock to ships and potential steal them, man it's like listing to one of Brabens old videos for ED

 

[Morbad]

Got to use tool that are available in situations like that, and Nvidia DLSS is always available.

DLSS requires a modern NVIDIA GPU.

I would prefer to have DLSS available, but it's absence is not a deal breaker, and I don't expect AMD to push an NVIDIA solution any more than I expect NVIDIA to tune their middleware for AMD. NVIDIA doesn't block FSR from being included with TWIMTBP titles (they don't have to because DLSS will almost always looks slightly better and run slightly faster), but much of the middleware they push is either not optimized at all for anyone else, or deliberately wastes performance on what NVIDIA hardware is good at just to make competing hardware look worse in comparison.

What I don't understand is the spec for PC, RT6800XT or RTX2080 ??? WUT is that a typo?

Before the AMD announcement I assumed that they had probably added NVIDIA specific features or heavily optimized it for NVIDIA for the PC launch, but now I think it's so slanted toward higher-end AMD hardware to skew the typical 'recommended' experience toward AMD. At least that's what makes sense to me in the context of it being an AMD sponsored title.

Anyway teaming up with AMD clearly leans to the AMD GPU and I'm actually looking to get a RX6750XT GPU to replace my old GTX1080OC card.

The game has been in development so long and the AMD announcement came so comparatively late that I'm not sure it had much direct influence on anything outside of the marketing. Still, since all the consoles are using AMD hardware, I certainly wouldn't expect it to have issues with AMD hardware.

Regardless, I'd also expect the RX 6750 XT to do quite well, as it is still slightly faster than the RTX 2080 and has more VRAM. However, if you can spring for it, the 6800 XT has fallen in price significantly and is a fairly major upgrade over the 6750 XT (it's middle part of the biggest RDNA2 chip, while the 6750 XT is the top part of the next smaller RDNA2 chip). In fact, the least expensive new 6800 XTs are now about ~35% more expensive than the least expensive 6750 XTs, but ~40% faster, making the 6800 XT a better raw price/performance ratio.

 

[lysan]

Regardless, I'd also expect the RX 6750 XT to do quite well, as it is still slightly faster than the RTX 2080 and has more VRAM. However, if you can spring for it, the 6800 XT has fallen in price significantly and is a fairly major upgrade over the 6750 XT (it's middle part of the biggest RDNA2 chip, while the 6750 XT is the top part of the next smaller RDNA2 chip). In fact, the least expensive new 6800 XTs are now about ~35% more expensive than the least expensive 6750 XTs, but ~40% faster, making the 6800 XT a better raw price/performance ratio.

Then I need to upgrade my CPU 4960X and I would like to push a full rebuild of my PC to later next year.

 

[tolm]

There was a story about it: https://www.gamesradar.com/star-war...ter-major-breakthrough-with-modders-dlss-fix/

Even media begins to pick up on AMD hostility towards gamers: https://wccftech.com/whats-up-with-the-missing-nvidia-dlss-support-in-amd-sponsored-fsr-titles/

If simple game like Jedi Survivors had issues, which DLSS could have addressed easily, than Starfield would have 10x more, because of games ambition and scale, and lack of DLSS support.

Calling it now, it's going to a be disaster launch. To many signs point in to the wrong direction.

Edit:
Just checked the news, and yes, media is picking up players dissatisfaction with AMD sponsorship:

Starfield's "exclusive PC partner" has players worried about performance and ray tracing

PC players are worried about DLSS and RTX features going missing

www.gamesradar.com

Starfield partners with AMD and oh boy, the internet is not happy

Some folk are mourning a hypothetical lack of DLSS support, some expecting more classic Bethesda launch jank, some fear Jedi: Survivor level issues, and some just straight out call for a boycott of AMD.

www.pcgamer.com

Starfield’s New Exclusive Partnership Just Made PC Gamers Angry

AMD’s deal with Bethesda’s open world RPG has PC gamers worried

kotaku.com

Been looking forward to Starfield since it was first announced … originally on PS5 … then they announced PS development was being dropped … fine … so I bought a PC since I also wanted to continue to play ED following console updates being dropped for that as well … I went RTX3070 … and now they’re gonna optimise for AMD only?

Dagnamit, Microsoft … are you deliberately trying to p*ss me off?!

 

[Morbad]

Then I need to upgrade my CPU 4960X and I would like to push a full rebuild of my PC to later next year.

I'm doubtful the game will even start on a 4960X. Performance wise it's still a capable chip, but AVX2 wasn't introduced until Haswell and I strongly expect Starfield to require that instruction set.

Regardless, if the system supports an RX 6750 XT, it will support a 6800 XT, unless you've been cutting it way too close on the power supply.

 

[Comandante]

Base building, massive ship customisation, ship interiors, ship crew, EVA where you can dock to ships and potential steal them, man it's like listing to one of Brabens old videos for ED

Except DB talked about it.

They did it.

 

[jojon]

I am not sure A necessarily has to mean not_B...