Big Elite Streamers Giving Up On Streaming Elite?

[Darth Ender]

Until you have KOS, or when a system expansion threatens your power, or is undermined, you know, PP bread and butter stuff.

Doesn't matter to non powerplay playing players.

Threatening powers and such dont matter. there is no consequence for failing all the time. No reward for winning all the time. Expansion or not doesn't matter.

When other powers chase you away it becomes important. But then thats tempered by modes.


Well, its an impact, weather you feel it or not. Bear in mind too bonuses are still at 2015 levels, not 2021 either.

So it doesn't matter.

Then you are playing the wrong game pal, because nothing bar other players does that in ED.

PP was supposed to. That's what the whole reason for pledging to a power was supposed to be for. Your power was supposed to matter to the BGS and it's success or failure would permanently/persistently impact it in a way that goes into the meta aspects of the BGS instead of just being able to impact some local attributes like in the normal game.

I can;t argue this, Powerplay should have been life or death but FD for internal reasons got spooked with the level of input it required.


The BGS is the same, but at least in PP proximity means something with contested systems.

Does it mean something? because i've never once had to goto a map to check before doing anything i want in the game ... outside of actual pp specific activities that only matter to powerplay cycles.

Not unlike the BGS really. The only thing that matters is that people want to hold territory.

which is less about the merits of the mechanic and more about how much imagination players have.

Which I can;t argue with either- but Discord is far better than anything FD could implement and miles better than Reddit (or here).


Its a flaw in a lot of EDs mechanics though, and that FD lack the courage to make something more of it.


But like I argue, the whole game is like that, the BGS certainly. Its only really Open that makes Powerplay fun because players are truly random.


And this is FDs fault for being schitzophrnic with 'blaze your own trail'- you can do that as long as it does / did not cross the 'FD narrative' which trumped PP and the BGS.

their identity crisis is certainly real. But the argument is that player imagination is player imagination and Fdev (powerplay) can't take credit for stuff that only exists in player imaginations. Which is where almost all of powerplay worth caring about exists.

That sense of community ...is not due to powerplay. It's in spite of powerplay and in spite of Fdev's work far more than it is because of it.

edit: Without at the very least promotion and collapse, PP is effectively pointless...and only serves as a common talking point for role playing. Everything else surrounding it ends up being nothing more than a hamster wheel.

 

[Mr T]

can't even impact the expansion of humanity into unpopulated systems

Hmm.. I'd like to see that... an ever expanding bubble.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Doesn't matter to non powerplay playing players.

Threatening powers and such dont matter. there is no consequence for failing all the time. No reward for winning all the time. Expansion or not doesn't matter.

Player factions v Powers for control that can lead to fort trigger issues? I remember the fun of fighting off The Brotherhood of Terra Mater because they were messing up one of Utopias most profitable bubbles, or nuking The Church of the Space Cat and 8 Dragon Squadron because they were expanding in places we did not like.

So it doesn't matter.

To you, maybe. To me it does because at R5 I can bypass the C+P system and be a total git to whoever I like and get away with it.

PP was supposed to. That's what the whole reason for pledging to a power was supposed to be for. Your power was supposed to matter to the BGS and it's success or failure would permanently/persistently impact it in a way that goes into the meta aspects of the BGS instead of just being able to impact some local attributes like in the normal game.

afaik Powerplay was a separate layer above the BGS, and for a while was supposed to be the flashier BGS alternative. Aside from collapse not being in, Powerplays influence on the BGS is as it was intended.

Does it mean something? because i've never once had to goto a map to check before doing anything i want in the game ... outside of actual pp specific activities that only matter to powerplay cycles.

And the point being? It matters to pledges, and FD compartmentalize PP so it does not leak into areas others don't want it. But it matters.

which is less about the merits of the mechanic and more about how much imagination players have.

Which again is a symptom / intended part of the game. Its never going to be much more than a game of territory at that level.

their identity crisis is certainly real. But the argument is that player imagination is player imagination and Fdev (powerplay) can't take credit for stuff that only exists in player imaginations. Which is where almost all of powerplay worth caring about exists.

Wherever it exists, it exists and happens. FD need to see that, because Powerplay needs a new reason to be since it sits in the shadow of the BGS.

That sense of community ...is not due to powerplay. It's in spite of powerplay and in spite of Fdev's work far more than it is because of it.

I can't argue against that- after Sandros Discord went fallow FD let the feature rot and whats carried on is admirable. Its partly why I hold FD to account because while they pander to many groups they ignore PP groups.

 

[Darth Ender]

Player factions v Powers for control that can lead to fort trigger issues? I remember the fun of fighting off The Brotherhood of Terra Mater because they were messing up one of Utopias most profitable bubbles, or nuking The Church of the Space Cat and 8 Dragon Squadron because they were expanding in places we did not like.

That's self referencing reasoning though. You care about that because it impacts your fortification triggers. But fortification triggers only matter because you're pledged to PP and need to protect your systems because losing systems means your power will.....what? nothing. Powers dont collapse. So you care about triggers and fortification for imaginary reasons.

To you, maybe. To me it does because at R5 I can bypass the C+P system and be a total git to whoever I like and get away with it.

Granted, that benefit can have it's uses. And once you have R5, maintaining it tends to be far easier than achieving it assuming you play at least a half dozen hours a week.

But you have to be pledged to kumo and only benefit in his systems. Which all smell like cooked human.

afaik Powerplay was a separate layer above the BGS, and for a while was supposed to be the flashier BGS alternative. Aside from collapse not being in, Powerplays influence on the BGS is as it was intended.

It was also supposed to dictate the narrative. it was supposed to even alter the reach of the super powers. PP was a meta on top of the BGS designed to allow players to more directly impact those things. All of that never came to be or what did, was abandoned.

And the point being? It matters to pledges, and FD compartmentalize PP so it does not leak into areas others don't want it. But it matters.

Which should sound ridiculous to everyone playing the game. How do you not leak something into the rest of the game that exists as a umbrella entity all other gameplay exists inside and underneath?

I dont have to get into politics ...but politics effects me because i live in a country. I can't just go about my anarchistic ways without consequence everywhere i want to.

The fact that any player isn't more aware of the power their system exists in than the given superpower alignment is a huge problem.

Wherever it exists, it exists and happens. FD need to see that, because Powerplay needs a new reason to be since it sits in the shadow of the BGS.

it needs the original reasons for why powerplayer was supposed to exist. Not new ones. it needs promotion and collapse. Without that, it has no reason to exist.

 

[Rubbernuke]

That's self referencing reasoning though. You care about that because it impacts your fortification triggers. But fortification triggers only matter because you're pledged to PP and need to protect your systems because losing systems means your power will.....what? nothing. Powers dont collapse. So you care about triggers and fortification for imaginary reasons.

And the faction cares because they lose territory and see work ruined by other groups. But in the end both the faction and Power are fighting over self imposed imaginary lines- something in a sandbox that would happen.

Granted, that benefit can have it's uses. And once you have R5, maintaining it tends to be far easier than achieving it assuming you play at least a half dozen hours a week.

But you have to be pledged to kumo and only benefit in his systems. Which all smell like cooked human.

And it means territory means something if you pledge to The King. And 'cooked human' to some is 'tasty free tender meat' to a hungry customer base.

It was also supposed to dictate the narrative. it was supposed to even alter the reach of the super powers. PP was a meta on top of the BGS designed to allow players to more directly impact those things. All of that never came to be or what did, was abandoned.

I must admit Powerplays scope was pared back, probably when FD realised it required ongoing commitment and was not a closed system like the BGS.

Which should sound ridiculous to everyone playing the game. How do you not leak something into the rest of the game that exists as a umbrella entity all other gameplay exists inside and underneath?

I'm with you, I want everything to have an impact. But I also remember the squealing that PP NPCs were taking up to much room and FD scaled them back- ever since FDs paradigm is to separate and contain.

I dont have to get into politics ...but politics effects me because i live in a country. I can't just go about my anarchistic ways without consequence everywhere i want to.

The fact that any player isn't more aware of the power their system exists in than the given superpower alignment is a huge problem.

To some groups being under a powers umbrella is like poison, while to others they don't care. A lot of people like ALD and Hudson because they have passive bounty bonuses, or LYR because he makes stuff cheaper.

it needs the original reasons for why powerplayer was supposed to exist. Not new ones. it needs promotion and collapse. Without that, it has no reason to exist.

Hence why it needs a new reason to 'be'- they only way currently beyond a rewrite is to make the Galactic standing mean something.

 

[[VR] James Constantine]

40% to 50% drop in interest in Elite.

How does that compare with the same time in previous years, presuming you have data to compare?

 

[thelion]

Ok, I realise that one can be very controversial at times.

That does not mean that one is taking a huge steaming dump on the community, what what

I love this simulator, it resonates with me.

I would far prefer for this Bally thing to be a Bally success and smash our glass ceiling of expectations.

 

[Stinja]

Those are definitely some very interesting stats!

Having data on things is always handy. Down to Earth Astronomy has collected data on viewers opinion on Oddsey, and has been doing so for months. The data set is in the 10's of thousands of people.

Meanwhile, I've also been playing close attention to my analytics which is in the millions. The story is very telling.

I'd love to see the data Frontier has!

Fuel Rats rescue stats:

The last 2-3 weeks is single-digit rescues mostly, except non-Odyssey PC.

Yes there's a lot of ways to read this - it could be everyone is so amazing no-one is running out of fuel but over the years i believe rescues have broadly tracked player numbers.
For example there was a huge surge on 22/11/2020 when it went free on Epic game store, the dip just before Odyseey launch will because the servers were being patched.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Fuel Rats rescue stats:
View attachment 248020

The last 2-3 weeks is single-digit rescues mostly, except non-Odyssey PC.

Yes there's a lot of ways to read this - it could be everyone is so amazing no-one is running out of fuel but over the years i believe rescues have broadly tracked player numbers.
For example there was a huge surge on 22/11/2020 when it went free on Epic game store, the dip just before Odyseey launch will because the servers were being patched.

Or suddenly people have become less pants and more aware of fuel?

*hydrogen tank half full and all that

 

[Bigmaec]

Or suddenly people have become less pants and more aware of fuel?

*hydrogen tank half full and all that

People only use Frontline and Apex because it's much better to not fly spaceships in a spaceship flying game.

On a more serious note, I guess people in Odyssey really use the mentioned services, I surely do.

But my friendlist is in the single digits most of the time now, definitely anecdotal evidence, but definitely less players.

 

[Darth Ender]

People only use Frontline and Apex because it's much better to not fly spaceships in a spaceship flying game.

On a more serious note, I guess people in Odyssey really use the mentioned services, I surely do.

But my friendlist is in the single digits most of the time now, definitely anecdotal evidence, but definitely less players.

friends lists are just used to track your position and guess your activity by players working against you. Best to limit your friend list to just single digits or none. Trust nobody.

 

[ubermick]

Elite Dangerous is also a game that grabs you or it doesn't, there seems to be very little "casual." There's the people who are of a "certain vintage" (ahahah) like myself who played the originals on Commodore machines or whatnot, who primarily either backed it during Kickstarter or bought the LEP when it was announced, and the people who are big fans of the genre, many of whom also got in early.

For "modern gamers", they have a library of games and are constantly adding more. The focus on one specific game comes and goes for them, and yep its absolutely exacerbated by the fact that Odyssey was released too early/riddled with issues. I mean, I'm the same way - I'll play religiously for several weeks/months, then disappear from the game for six months, then drift back to it.

Incredibly sensible fans of the game who are currently finding the it difficult to play right now are simply spending their time on another game at the minute until things are better fixed, instead of banging their heads against the wall. Either that or they played the game for a month or two, then something new came out and they moved on to that.

And yes, with things opening back up in the wake of the pandemic, people are getting away from their screens and heading out to the pub, seeing friends again, getting back to work, and maybe even - gulp - going on holiday.

 

[StanleyDunkan]

Once again. Misreading and misquoting my posts.

I didn't say EVERYONE was happy.
WHAT I DID say was EVERYONE wasn't happy.

Yes. It is SOME. Not ALL.

If people start dimissing Steam charts, and using their phony ones to inflate the numbers in to positive favour, that would just give Frontier a free pass to keep on doing what they did with Odyssey.


Of course if someone has the time and can go over their " Financial situation " prior to Odyssey, to show how much Elite was even giving to Frontier compared to their other titles - that might probably give a clear picture if Frontier cares about reviews and falling player numbers, and broken promises and communications and performance.

All of this could just be for nothing, if all they wanted from Odyssey is not a long term investment but just a quick buck from not so popular game.

 

[Tikanderoga]

As I've said, I consider the content creators to be a barometer of community sentiment, simply because a large part of what they do is gauge what that sentiment is so they can get subscriptions. Given this, I'd take their reaction with a pinch of salt too and I'd put more weight on the more... ahem... sober of them, such as OA and D2EA, both of whom have begun to diversify their content and have been increasingly critical of FDev.

Of course FDev could turn this all around in the next six months; I just don't see how they can, even if they wanted to.

Well, one of the best quotes I've heard in the streams one: If you damaged your reputation, you will have to be twice as good as you were before, in order to make it up.
And looking at the track record of Fdev, this is just not going to happen.

They would really have to WOW the playerbase to oblivion and beyond, in order to make up for this mess, we are talking: interiors, FC bridge, meaningful FPS gameplay, fantastic planet surfaces, ruins to explore, VR support, different concourse layouts, material trader for the on foot stuff that don't rip you off, half a dozen new ships, new SRVs... pretty much everything the community has been screaming for for years.
And most of that bug free.

If... and that's a big IF... they can make all this come true, the players would come flocking back, and ED would have the definite upper hand over SC and NMS. But seeing the reluctance of Fdev of doing anything like that, I wouldn't hold my breath even for a second.

 

[photomankc]

Cant imagine why anyone would want to leave? Last PC update on the roadmap adds this level of jaw dropping performance!?!? I mean what do people want? We got real double digit FPS here people. Two digits. Mostly. On hardware far above the recommended spec.

 

[Red Rocket]

40% to 50% drop in interest in Elite.

There's plenty of ways to interpret that. Doesn't necessarily mean it's due to Odyssey etc. Could also be due to my coverage of the game etc.

Later this week I will do a historical comparison on older Elite videos to see if interest in them has also dropped / changed.

For the last 5 years I have been 100% playing Elite in VR and not interested in any other game, I have racked up over 3000 hours.
After Fdev came out and said no plans for adding full VR to Odyssey it made me start to lose interest in Elite Dangerous, I am now watching Ant’s and D2E coverage of other games with much interest.
I can live with bugs and poor performance because that can be fixed but telling me you aren’t going to support my style of gameplay that was advertised as a game feature I can’t forgive.

 

[Odi]

Slightly off topic sorry but I have started a new thread I am hoping to get support for.



Thread 'Quality of life and what commitment you would be satisfied with.' https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...ommitment-you-would-be-satisfied-with.585016/



Thanks

 

[StanleyDunkan]

Cant imagine why anyone would want to leave? Last PC update on the roadmap adds this level of jaw dropping performance!?!? I mean what do people want? We got real double digit FPS here people. Two digits. Mostly. On hardware far above the recommended spec.

Looks like its worse than that. Ground texture is not rendering just few feet infront of your character.

 

[Odi]

900 hours here and I arrived with Epic freebie playing 100 percent too and preordered odyssey. And I really couldn't have coped with out the you tubers I even bought obsidian ants HCS voice pack

 

[Rat Catcher]

Looks like its worse than that. Ground texture is not rendering just few feet infront of your character.

Gosh! And one of the 'other' games receiving so much comparison has...

... about the same LOD distance...(and this is on their own Ultra setting)

Yet EDO has 'issues' admitted by Frontier... NMS doesn't...

(not that I imagine EDO will improve over much, not if it has to run on the Horizons potato requirement, and last gen consoles!)