Big Elite Streamers Giving Up On Streaming Elite?

[ubermick]

Content creators are as much a part of the community as any member of these forums. We are all people playing a game and sharing that experience.

From what I understand, the negative backlash itself isn't directly hampering the development of the game. The game itself is doing that more than enough.

Some people in the community however, have taken that to an extreme, with directly attacking / insulting staff (hence today's post by Arf).

What's important to understand (as far as I'm concerned at least) is that there is a difference between negativity (i.e. being unhappy and expressing that), and being toxic (being unhappy and targeting individuals / groups). Frontier quite rightly won't tolerate the toxic element. However, they fully accept and understand the negative element (I know that for a fact). They are also totally ok with content creators.

So yes, keeping criticism civil is important. I'm not sure I need to directly address that, as I try to be civil myself, and most of the comments within my community comments for Elite videos, whilst extremely negative are not necessary dramatically toxic (although some get borderline).

As to some content creators fleeing to Star Citizen. I think that's entirely natural. Regardless of what some people actually chose to believe on the forums, the fact is that interest in Elite is at an all time low. As I said earlier, YouTubers have access to a lot of information in the form of stats. Those stats show that interest is on a downward trend. Why would any content creator not look elsewhere for content?

For me, I rarely touch Star Citizen. I will likely start producing 3 or 4 videos a month on it perhaps. It's a natural game to look at in the space genre. Then again, I'm not in the same situation as most Elite Dangerous content creators. A huge part of my focus is on Microsoft Flight Simulator, and has been for a very long time now. I also cover other space and sci-fi games etc. So Elite isn't my "main thing".

It's funny that some people feel I'm generating "negative Elite videos" for the views. The truth is, I only produced 3 Elite videos in June, and I certainly didn't need the views those videos produced. I could have produced any video on any game and received the same number of views.

However, I still love being a part of the Elite community. I still enjoy the Horizons element of Elite. I certainly don't need Elite, or the views it provides...but I still like being a part of the Elite community.

That's fair enough, and agree that everyone (at the end of the day) is just another member of the community.

But members of the community do carry more weight than others. The priest (for better or worse!) who addresses a packed congregation every Sunday will get more people thinking, than a random bald Irishman like myself standing on the corner on top of a crate shouting will.

As I've mentioned on here ad nauseam today, yourself and Astro are the only two Elite content channels I've watched (and noted you moved away from focusing on Elite quite a long time ago, focusing more on space games in general, and since the release MSFS as you mentioned), so have actually found myself watching your vids more just to see what's up and coming, so cheers for that. You do, however, still have a reputation in the community as a whole as someone who's been very balanced towards Elite - giving it praise and criticism when they're deserved, not when its trendy to do so. For example, your lack of (positive) Elite content since Odyssey's launch is used by some as Exhibit A that the game is a dead man walking.

That's not to say you should be producing positive Elite content at the moment. I wasn't suggesting a video specifically praising Elite, nor even suggesting your opinion should change - just that you could use said reputation (if so inclined) to perhaps help tone down some of the over the top rhetoric flying around that is resulting in the abuse Arf felt the need to address today in your next Elite vid by mentioning that the toxicity is getting out of hand.

In other news, its good to know that Frontier understand and accept their mess. For my own part, I sort of view them as inept and bumbling (sorry lads!) as nefarious and evil. But, suppose at the end of the day, one opinion doesn't matter...

(...or does it?!?!?!?!? )

 

[Winterwalker]

I provided one (though far from the only) reason.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

Because you could make videos about things you love, rather than things your 'target audience' loves.

The old OA would have understood. The old OA would not have even dared asked such a cynical rhetorical question. Oh well. Enjoy the clicks.

I didn't say the stats drive my decisions (I don't need the views from Elite). I was just giving another explanation for why some content creators are "jumping ship". The "problems" Elite is having affects them differently to how it affects me.

The rest of your post I have addressed in my reply above.

 

[Ian Skippy]

In my videos I say what I think.

I absolutely adore MSFS, and I think Asobo are among the best developers on the planet. But when I think they screw up, I call it out. Sometimes people are aware of those issues, sometimes they aren't...that doesn't factor into my decision to mention a problem. Sometimes I get flak for calling things out, sometimes I don't. But I call it like I see it. I'm not saying my opinion is right. I'm just saying it's my opinion. People are free to take it or leave it (dislike and ubsub) I'm 100% fine with that. (I've never once said "like and subscribe" btw haha I think it's 100% unnecessary and a terrible aspect of YouTube. I'm happy for people to do either (although preferably not on mass )

As for SC, I've made videos praising aspects of its planets (although they are too small), and I've made videos pointing out its crazy development cycle. I get a lot of crap for the latter from the SC community (and I mean a lot).

For me, making videos is a passion. I'm lucky enough to make a living from my passion. I'm also lucky enough that people enjoy watching what I am passionate about making. It's cheesy to say, but it's a case of "Build it and they will come". I try not to over sensationalise, or create drama. Sometimes that is a natural side effect, but it's never the aim or the intent. Drama and sensationalism is also not necessary for me to drive views. I have generated tens of millions of views with positive videos, and far less with so called "negative" videos.

Personally, I prefer the positive content. But I'm also not going to shy away from talking about my opinions when they are on the "unhappy" or "negative" side. I'm here to create the content. If I'm lucky I get the views.

Or to put it another way, my passion / creativity / enjoyment and even occasionally frustration are the driving forces for my content. Views are secondary. Of course they are important, but they are not the driving focus or the aspect that drives my decisions.

On a final note, I will add that so called "negative videos" on Elite generate a far more negative comments section when compared to a "negative video" on any other game I cover. Does that say something about me, or something about the respective communities for each of those games?

Thanks for your elaborate response Ant, and yes, MSFS and Adobo are great!

You didn't answer my question though. I am sure you just got sidetracked, so no problem. But the question was: if you call out something for being an issue in ED, will you give it likewise attention if it's a similar, or worse, issue in SC?

 

[Juniper]

Why does he look like his head is attached to his back?

 

[Obsidian Ant]

Thanks for your elaborate response Ant, and yes, MSFS and Adobo are great!

You didn't answer my question though. I am sure you just got sidetracked, so no problem. But the question was: if you call out something for being an issue in ED, will you give it likewise attention if it's a similar, or worse, issue in SC?

As a direct comparison video? Unlikely, I try not to make comparison videos too often.

As a point to be addressed in a video because it's something that bothers me? Maybe.

Repeating textures on planets is a good example. I've touched on it for Elite. SC suffers from the same problem, and I will probably highlight it in my next video. Just you wait though, for some in the SC community dump on me for doing that.

I've never said I'm consistent though, so I'm sure I will at some point, suggest something is crap in Elite whilst being entirely oblivious to MSFS having the same problem (vice versa is also entirely possible).

 

[Ian Skippy]

As a direct comparison video? Unlikely, I try not to make comparison videos too often.

As a point to be addressed in a video because it's something that bothers me? Maybe.

Repeating textures on planets is a good example. I've touched on it for Elite. SC suffers from the same problem, and I will probably highlight it in my next video. Just you wait though, for some in the SC community dump on me for doing that.

I've never said I'm consistent though, so I'm sure I will at some point, suggest something is crap in Elite whilst being entirely oblivious to MSFS having the same problem (vice versa is also entirely possible).

Ha, that's a sporty response! I do fear part of your audience might assume consistency, and may get to false conclusions because of it. It's specifically an issue with SC, as it has both a troubled background and some 'heavily invested' fans. Not an easy game for a CC.

In any case, MSFS doesn't seem to have any major issues of that caliber and it has a global appeal, so all the best to you. Let's hope FD turns things around and make it more worthwhile to you in the future, and if not, there's always another great game on the Horizon.

 

[Tikanderoga]

99.99% of the galaxy is filled with just things you can take pictures of.

it would be game changing for any of that to actually become part of actual gameplay. You know, involving something more than fighting to stay awake watching loading screens or while in supercruise.

Wishful thinking.

EDO had a LOT of potential of things to do. As does the Elite base game. But nope, all happily squandered away for watching countdown timers approach the 10s mark to push a button, or even more boring repetitive gameloops (looking at you, jump honk scoop!). Or the famous hutton trip. 90 minutes of doing sweet nothing! Gameplay?
I'm playing Everspace 2 atm, and it just shows how interesting you can make the travel times.

 

[StanleyDunkan]

In my videos I say what I think.

I absolutely adore MSFS, and I think Asobo are among the best developers on the planet. But when I think they screw up, I call it out. Sometimes people are aware of those issues, sometimes they aren't...that doesn't factor into my decision to mention a problem. Sometimes I get flak for calling things out, sometimes I don't. But I call it like I see it. I'm not saying my opinion is right. I'm just saying it's my opinion. People are free to take it or leave it (dislike and ubsub) I'm 100% fine with that. (I've never once said "like and subscribe" btw haha I think it's 100% unnecessary and a terrible aspect of YouTube. I'm happy for people to do either (although preferably not on mass )

As for SC, I've made videos praising aspects of its planets (although they are too small), and I've made videos pointing out its crazy development cycle. I get a lot of crap for the latter from the SC community (and I mean a lot).

For me, making videos is a passion. I'm lucky enough to make a living from my passion. I'm also lucky enough that people enjoy watching what I am passionate about making. It's cheesy to say, but it's a case of "Build it and they will come". I try not to over sensationalise, or create drama. Sometimes that is a natural side effect, but it's never the aim or the intent. Drama and sensationalism is also not necessary for me to drive views. I have generated tens of millions of views with positive videos, and far less with so called "negative" videos.

Personally, I prefer the positive content. But I'm also not going to shy away from talking about my opinions when they are on the "unhappy" or "negative" side. I'm here to create the content. If I'm lucky I get the views.

Or to put it another way, my passion / creativity / enjoyment and even occasionally frustration are the driving forces for my content. Views are secondary. Of course they are important, but they are not the driving focus or the aspect that drives my decisions.

On a final note, I will add that so called "negative videos" on Elite generate a far more negative comments section when compared to a "negative video" on any other game I cover. Does that say something about me, or something about the respective communities for each of those games?

And that what you did for the last month. Only your focuse was not " Things that happening in the game " but " Things that happening with the game ".

Just an example, in early June Arthur hyped the Azimuth Saga ( wow Saga in Elite?) and to this day, none of the top Elite Tubers covered the Azimuth Saga.
A lot of new players and older one, that pop up like an UFO sighting, would have never really heard about it. Thing could have been an interesting piece of Lore to dive in to and get others interested in, while the Developer fix Odyssey.

But it's just, you know, same old, same old with you guys, discussing patches, Road Maps - it's getting older. I think you guys got stuck in this loop.

Give me back the old OA, that did videos like this:

 

[Salonica]

You have posted, in the past, regarding ship interiors especially. You also leverage your metrics in the forum, possibly to enact change.

Any content creator/influencer no matter what their channel theme is, has, they hope, some kind of audience. Leaving aside who has the biggest fanbase/following etc, each of the mentioned content creators have a vast proportion of the current players as their audience. Each of these content creators reflect what the vast amount of their audience is thinking. If they didn't their following would would shrink. Any content creator if they're wise, does not want to shrink their audience.

Now again, leaving aside absolute figures, wo could say that the vast majority of these audiences all feel the same way. The release was a dumspoer fire and a huge step backwards for frontier. A huge loss of belief and confidence in the game creator.

Any company worth their salt would be mesuring the reaction to these content creators presentations and taking note of the good and the bad. Content creators produce a production and it's up to the company to decide for themselves if they should change direction, put more thought in to some aspect or whatever.

That is change. The amount of commentary on the various topics on the forums, produces change.

You can't simply pick on OA or any other particular content creator lay blame at their door. The blame, if any, lies squarely at the game creators door.

The telling thing in all of this is; We know its a dumpster fire, frontier know its a dumspet fire, the worst release they've ever done, lacking testing, quality and content. And yet still... They leave it for sale as a full blown finished DLC. What does that you? Maybe the roadmap at the end of june will cast more light on how they proceed....

 

[MoodBear]

How many times must it be repeated? When you beam out your ship to the blue circle on an airless environment, DO NOT FORGET YOUR HELMET, or you will pop!

 

[Shinji Ikari]

And the base game has PEGI 7 rating (although Odyssey is PEGI 16) which I assume you already know.

Yes, teenagers swear even more you know?

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Adult yes. Grown, well I can only speak for myself, but that's debatable. I was told more than once to be more "mature". I googled that, but I ended up even more confused about what people meant.

I have met elder adults that act worse than kids. Nobody is 'grown' from time to time.

 

[alexzk]

/tin foil

Just met brand new video as of time of this post

Source: https://youtu.be/ykGOnn4PHsE?t=56


As you can see at time code - it has fake NS, meaning it was so, but it is FIXED already for 1-2 weeks. And he still uses those old images.
So what I think ...somebody pays real money to big streamers to dig the grave for ED. They keep ignoring good, fixed, positive things and do those fake videos with old screens like they want to kill the game. And promoting some "citizenship" with own referral links where they will get a cut.
Dirty nice moves.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Or, alternatively, truth has weight. No matter the number of views.

Which has nothing to do with your earlier statement that the weight of an opinion should be based not on truth but on whether one is a youtube personality.

Truth is far too strong of a word. I rather use 'informed', after all, most opinions aren't 'true' or 'false'.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

I've followed OA since way, way back. You know, when he came here to say he couldn't make vids because his computer broke down. I stopped following him some time ago. Check this video:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EqJYEscSYk&ab_channel=ObsidianAnt


Its just a regular dude, playing a game, and giving his opinion as he goes. It was cool. Now pick a random (last year or two) recent video and just listen to his voice. He became a clickbait Streamer cossplaying the original OA.

"iS iT tOo lAtE fOr Fd tO TurN aRoUnD?!?! CoMmEnT, lIkE & SuBScrIbe!!!!!"

Hello guys and girls!

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37nwLhIA1zs&ab_channel=TeflonGang

That's not clickbait...

 

[Pepperinelly]

I started to become a fangirl of many of the Elite streamers and this is different for me because before I started playing Elite a few months back I never really followed game based Youtube content. It's been stunning over the last two weeks to see virtually every streamer I've been following start focusing on "that other game" and all offering some serious criticisms of FDev.

What's been most interesting is FDevs response to it all. I'll not throw on more fuel other than to say all of the same streamers have taken note of it too in their recent content.

Is there a recovery from this? Any chance we could just see Horizons staying as is without any of the Odyssey "improvements" touching it? One can hope.

 

[alexzk]

Is there a recovery from this? Any chance we could just see Horizons staying as is without any of the Odyssey "improvements" touching it? One can hope.

It's almost good already. Need some updates to maps yet for mouse. But except this it feels better UX everywhere.
Some technical bugs should be solved, but they said they will keep Horizons until then.

 

[Lysette]

"Kicking the game whilst it is down" is unnecessary and unconstructive.

As for YouTube and audiences. The relationship between content creators and their audiences goes in both directions. I don't need to "influence" people's opinions on Odyssey. I just give my own thoughts which some people seem to like to hear.

Some videos are like writing a forum post, just with a much larger audience.

Other videos are a more creative endeavour, like when I hired Hollywood composer Nolan Markey and the Budapest Orchestra to write and record a score for my new MSFS series.

It's not about "changing someone's opinion" it's about self expression. In the case of my recent Elite videos that means expressing an opinion. In the case of my MSFS video, it is a creative expression.

But I understand how some people can get jaded about that type of thing.

I'm going to be cheeky and do something I rarely do. Post one of my videos.

Source: https://youtu.be/bo_TzbWQlHE


It's a creative video. Or might someone claim I'm trying to "influence" people? The video was very expensive to produce. Far too costly for the purpose of influencing.

I know you weren't aiming anything at me personally Rat Catcher, and I know you didn't mean anything negative. Your posts often catch my eye and are appreciated. I simply thought this one deserved a reply.

Great video again - and I like that you put a "making of" part in regards to the music to it as well. I said it earlier already, your videos are a piece of art to me and a lot of others as well. I am kind of influenced now to watch more of your MSFS videos and eventually even buy the simulation at some point in time (tbh I need a better PC for it first). You are an artist in the end, this is just in you and you should progress in this area imo. I hope future will throw the right people in your way to help you further in this endeavor.

 

[Tikanderoga]

Just an example, in early June Arthur hyped the Azimuth Saga ( wow Saga in Elite?) and to this day, none of the top Elite Tubers covered the Azimuth Saga.
A lot of new players and older one, that pop up like an UFO sighting, would have never really heard about it. Thing could have been an interesting piece of Lore to dive in to and get others interested in, while the Developer fix Odyssey.

because "nothing to see here".
A text wall just isn't content.

I don't see many people get excited about a text wall and say "Whoah.. this happened here? Look, there is a beacon I can scan. Whoah, look at that history!"
Just another beacon, that looked the same as the tourist beacon 15 systems earlier, with a different text.
Nothing to see here, moving on!

You have to give people to be exctited about something. Another derelict ship that looks identical to the last one, trying to hype a "generation ship found" will not get people to flock to the game. Nothing to see, nothing to do, if you want to read the text, you can skip the long journey and read it online.

I can't speak for everyone here, nor do I intend to, but a text wall is not content for me.
Reading about the guardians is nice, still not content.
Exploring the ruins IS content.
Logging off and on again to do it again is NOT content.

After 5 years, the little content ED had to offer has worn awefuly thin. And with EDO not adding any substantial meat to the bone, players are looking for something more substantial to sustain themselves.