Black holes should kill you if you fly into them

Amanojaku

Amanojaku
Remlok shouldn't save you from smashing your ship into a 6 G planet. The old "if I jump up in a falling elevator before I hit the ground..." theory also comes to mind. You'd be space pizza.

If your canopy is breached, you should be instantly vaporized by laser fire or ripped to shreds by ballistics that continue to fire through it. Even dust at that point could be deadly, especially if you are shieldless in SC.

Ship integrity should be affected by smacking into asteroids and station walls, not just time spent in SC.

How can Beluga passengers enjoy the amenities of a luxury liner with a functional casino and swimming pool, when they are literally locked in place the entire flight? (No canon source of artificial gravity in ED)

Speaking of which, I guess that's where the "Paine" in Paine Pleasure Cruises comes from. It's not a fantasy, S&M loveboat cruise. Unless you enjoy poker chips smacking into your face the entire journey.

We now know there are gas giants that orbit extremely close to stars (on a cosmic scale).

We fly our ship, when in the future it's highly likely that AI will control even more conventional aircraft. We'd be engineers at best, making sure all of the electronics were functioning at optimal levels for the automated pilot program.


I'm just making the point that ED is a game. It's not even a sim. It's a simcade at best. It's not that I disagree with you about black holes. I think they should have a deadly gravitational effect as well. I'm just being obnoxious like Neil DeGrasse Tyson when he nitpicks a film apart.
 

Susanna

Susanna
varonica said:
Yep, I remember those days, and the jumping in between two close binary stars, that was always fun, unfortunately anything actually dangerous in exploration is nerfed to oblivion! It's something I am struggling to understand. We get lots of threads by apparant new players asking for exploration to be dangerous, but the moment they put in something dangerous we get a flood of demands to nerf it!
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Because people like the idea but when they then get tripped up by it they cry foul play and want it FIXED...

BTW, I'm totally with you on this one. BHs etc SHOULD BE DANGEROUS! Like you said, doing serious damage to your ship, requiring experience and knowledge to handle and repair from.
 

Rat Catcher

Rat Catcher
Shouldn't every potentially lethal 'danger' to our ships and CMDRs "permadeath" them?
  • Fly too close to any star, even brown dwarfs, "He's dead, Jim!"
  • White Dwarf exclsion zone, "He's dead, Jim!"
  • Neutron Star exclusion zone, "He's dead, Jim!"
  • Black Hole exclusion zone, "He's dead, Jim!"
  • PvP 'death', "He's dead, Jim!"
  • Station Gunners got you, "He's dead, Jim!"
  • Lithobraking on any body, "He's dead, Jim!"
  • Hit one of those big rocks in space, "He's dead, Jim!"
  • etc. ad nauseum..."He's dead, Jim!"
Everything that 'kills' should end in 'permadeath', surely?
 

Amanojaku

Amanojaku
Several Puffins said:
If we're having fun being nitpicky, isn't a SC ship stationary in its own frame of reference?

Why? They're less massive than the stars they are the remnants of!
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I'm not sure on the SC lore in ED. I assumed hyperspace/witchspace was more akin to that type of space travel, not SC.

And as far as black holes are concerened, what little I do know is that the pull from them is supposedly so powerful it causes "spaghettification", where it causes horizontal compression of objects into thin shapes, like spaghetti noodles.
 

Several Puffins

S
Amanojaku said:
I'm not sure on the SC lore in ED. I assumed hyperspace/witchspace was more akin to that type of space travel, not SC.

And as far as black holes are concerened, what little I do know is that the pull from them is supposedly so powerful it causes "spaghettification", where it causes horizontal compression of objects into thin shapes, like spaghetti noodles.
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Hyperspace I think in lore is hyperspace, as in another set of dimensions which map one-to-one on ours, but where distances are extremely reduced, as though you could literally climb into a map and out again. The most common version of SC lore I have seen is the Alcubierre warp, but I don't think it's actually canon!

Spaghettification for sure is predicted to happen very close, where differences in gravitational strength are large over the length of the object, but I don't think we ever get that close to a black hole in game. At the distances we do go to, it's just the bits of a star left over, and should be less gravitationally attractive (and much less hot!) than a supergiant star.

But honestly, I haven't checked how close we can go. Maybe we can go over the event horizon? Has anyone run the numbers?
 

Jukelo

Jukelo
Rat Catcher said:
Shouldn't every potentially lethal 'danger' to our ships and CMDRs "permadeath" them?
  • Fly too close to any star, even brown dwarfs, "He's dead, Jim!"
  • White Dwarf exclsion zone, "He's dead, Jim!"
  • Neutron Star exclusion zone, "He's dead, Jim!"
  • Black Hole exclusion zone, "He's dead, Jim!"
  • PvP 'death', "He's dead, Jim!"
  • Station Gunners got you, "He's dead, Jim!"
  • Lithobraking on any body, "He's dead, Jim!"
  • Hit one of those big rocks in space, "He's dead, Jim!"
  • etc. ad nauseum..."He's dead, Jim!"
Everything that 'kills' should end in 'permadeath', surely?
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As far as I'm concerned, yes. Of course if it weren't virtually impossible to actually get yourself killed in ED without actively and deliberately sabotaging your chances, I might reconsider...
 
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CMDR ROGER

C
fu9ar said:
You only got close enough for the automated safety mechanism to collapse the frame shift. All you can see is the gravitational lensing effect.
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If you're that close to a black hole, nothing should be able to stop your ship from plunging in.
Flying Scorpion said:
They should be dangerous. Right now they just pull you out of supercruise and then heat your ship up. That's just disappointing.
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No, uh, Fdev did a good job with the current black holes!! We payed for Harmless: Safe! You're just a big meanie!!! /s
 

CMDR ROGER

C
Rat Catcher said:
Shouldn't every potentially lethal 'danger' to our ships and CMDRs "permadeath" them?
  • Fly too close to any star, even brown dwarfs, "He's dead, Jim!"
  • White Dwarf exclsion zone, "He's dead, Jim!"
  • Neutron Star exclusion zone, "He's dead, Jim!"
  • Black Hole exclusion zone, "He's dead, Jim!"
  • PvP 'death', "He's dead, Jim!"
  • Station Gunners got you, "He's dead, Jim!"
  • Lithobraking on any body, "He's dead, Jim!"
  • Hit one of those big rocks in space, "He's dead, Jim!"
  • etc. ad nauseum..."He's dead, Jim!"
Everything that 'kills' should end in 'permadeath', surely?
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It's a game, respawn the player anyway. It doesn't always need to be a trade between exhilarating gameplay and realism.

...

Scratch that, I'm with you. How bout we remove the unrealistic FSD physics and make it so you need to spend 5 minutes doing a burn to match velocities with the target before you warp there so you don't slam against the target space station? Planets have dozens of kilometres a second in relative velocities, why doesn't that transfer over when hopping from Abraham Lincoln station to Mars High? /s
 

Rat Catcher

Rat Catcher
CMDR ROGER said:
How bout we remove the unrealistic FSD physics and make it so you need to spend 5 minutes doing a burn to match velocities with the target before you warp there so you don't slam against the target space station
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Yep!
Sounds about as perfect as the initial suggestions here... Write it into the game code by tomorrow... /s
 

Amanojaku

Amanojaku
Several Puffins said:
Hyperspace I think in lore is hyperspace, as in another set of dimensions which map one-to-one on ours, but where distances are extremely reduced, as though you could literally climb into a map and out again. The most common version of SC lore I have seen is the Alcubierre warp, but I don't think it's actually canon!

Spaghettification for sure is predicted to happen very close, where differences in gravitational strength are large over the length of the object, but I don't think we ever get that close to a black hole in game. At the distances we do go to, it's just the bits of a star left over, and should be less gravitationally attractive (and much less hot!) than a supergiant star.

But honestly, I haven't checked how close we can go. Maybe we can go over the event horizon? Has anyone run the numbers?
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I've seen a CMDR actually fly into one in a YT vid. Nothing happened. The graphics were pretty trippy when he got super close though. I think I remember someone saying that they used to cook your ship when you got too close (it might have been in this thread somewhere) but Fdev removed that feature after complaints.
 

Edith_The_Hutt

Edith_The_Hutt
If you want Black Holes and other star types to be hazardous (My preference would be for an accretion disc, which gave out colossal amounts of heat radiation) then you'd want two extra QoLs:

1) A "Navigational Hazard Warning" to show up when you targeted the system for a jump
2) A single check-box which causes the auto-route plotter to avoid these systems - This would be switched on by default.
 

photomankc

photomankc
I’d be all for some more mechanics around them. it would be awesome if there were challenges in getting close to them and exclusion zone knocking the FSD out means you are falling in. Boost FSD and high wake, or die.
 

photomankc

photomankc
Rat Catcher said:
...but have you tried...

Perhaps we should campaign to Frontier that every error or other hazard causes instant death and a new CMDR has to be started (as a startup option, obviously) - that would be perfect for those who dismiss the lack of 'risk' as they could then 'progress' with the very real 'risk' of starting over because they got a millisecond too close to an exclusion zone, or just a single hit from another ship's guns!
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Bit hyperbolic. There should be natural consequences but there should not be insta-gibbing. The UI guides you how close you can get to the star. Exceed that and you can take damage if you are marginal and damaged that may the end for you. Black holes really are no more dangerous than the star they came from until you get within that radius. I’m all for the ship telling you “hey that’s dangerous don’t do that” but you having freedom to go in anyway. I think of the wasteland In Fallout 4. It’s perfectly possible to not be killed there but you have to properly prepare or you can be killed just fine.
 

ebbrell

ebbrell
I agree they should be dangerous especially when near.

Even the vent horizon should cause damage due to gravity.

It should suck you in, and you need to thrust away to stay still etc
 

Rat Catcher

Rat Catcher
photomankc said:
Bit hyperbolic. There should be natural consequences but there should not be insta-gibbing. The UI guides you how close you can get to the star. Exceed that and you can take damage if you are marginal and damaged that may the end for you. Black holes really are no more dangerous than the star they came from until you get within that radius. I’m all for the ship telling you “hey that’s dangerous don’t do that” but you having freedom to go in anyway. I think of the wasteland In Fallout 4. It’s perfectly possible to not be killed there but you have to properly prepare or you can be killed just fine.
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I agree entirely, it is a completely senseless suggestion - but was put forward, in all sincerity as a consequence in a previous post 🤷‍♂️
 
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