Boycotting community events

[GluttonyFang]

A quick reminder to play the ball and not the player.

But my ball is mine, I don't wana share it .-.

Apos gave it to me so it's important!

Here you go Gluttony!

 

[NeilF]

As my previous thread has been closed on this topic, with many individuals posting some extremely interesting and insightful suggestions, I'll respost it here (in short) in the hope those same points are made yet again (for FD to hopefully pay some attention to)...



Stronger Action Required?
Surely the current in game mechanics are clearly not sufficient for the community to self police people intent on murder and destruction. As such, at the moment, these individuals can happily continue their antics. For example, at the Hutton Platform the same individuals can be seen turning up day after day causing the same aggravation over and over.

So, undoubtedly like many other individuals have likewise posted/asked, I would suggest something needs to be done to confront anti-social behaviour. Elite Dangerous has an incredibly strong community, indeed, it's probably one of its strongest assets. But this issue threatens to damage it. I know CMDRs who now fly only/mainoy in SOLO due to issue with "griefers". I suspect many CMDRs are now beginning to take part in the Hutton CG in SOLO due to this weeks (continued) antics. And you have to wonder if people will go to such lengths (eg: to provide "live video feeds" such as the HuttonOrbital.com group) in the future knowing what lies in store for their efforts.

Because, IMHO, as it stands the problem is only going to grow if not strongly addressed and it made very clear to the individuals involved that it will not be ignored, and strong penalties could be awaiting them if they choose to continue with such behaviour.

eg: With the same individuals committing murder in the same area day after day (often within meters of the platform?), why aren't security vessels taking action? Why are Wings of Vipers not frequenting the area? Why is the platform not taking action? Why is the platform ignoring individuals blocking a landing pad on purpose for hour(s)? In short, why isn't the game even trying to police the matter?

Example
A particular CMDR has been witnessed at Hutton repeatedly causing issues (akin to those listed above). Yesterday, on leaving the platform I saw him arriving, and rather than continuing to supercruise off (or leaving the game), I decided to sit next to the station and watch and indeed video his actions. He began trying to ram other ships (CMDRs) around the platform, and in the end rammed my ship too. I fully suspected he would do this, but was willing lose my ship (costing me my rebuy & quite a few million in unclaimed bounties unfortunately) in order to catch this sort of behaviour on video to set the scene.

..and with yet another CMDR murdered meters away from the platform, by the same individual, the platform does what? Does it open fire having witnesses yet another murder by the same individual right next to it? Does it call in for more Security Wings to frequent the area? Alas, seemingly no... So on it continues...

My Opinion
Clearly Platforms (eg: Hutton) should be taking better care of the traders at them They have guns... be more willing to use them.

I'd also suggest FD need to ramp up the mechanics in the game so it can police itself better. eg: If a CMDR is repeatedly committing murder (in an area), which isn't there a great chance of Wings of Security Vessel being in their instance? In the case of th CMDR at Hutton repeatedly ramming and murdering CMDRs, surely after a few days of this he should be seeing Security Vessels in that area (in his instance)? If he arrived at Hutton he shouldn't be surprised to see a Wing of Security Vessels already there, or arriving soon after? And if he interdicts someone nearby, again he shouldn't be surprised if Security Vessel soon appear at the interdiction.

Give players more PvP specific locations/tasks:-

• Let's have Community Goal combat zones. Maybe offer some discount on rebuy costs too as the Factions are will to help!
• Let's have some of the CQC backdrops/locations put into the core game as dedicated PvP zones (in OPEN) where kills are rewarded and rebuy costs covered to some degree (as its being televised!)
• Let's have Community Goal blockades - assuming viable a blockade mechanic can be developed. And if they prove good enough consider introducing them into Powerplay as a means of deciding appropriate outcomes.
  
  
  
  

  Lets examine that difference.
  
  The CG was a succes regardless of their actions. All they achieved was shooting down some traders who just travelled 90 minutes. If you look at their stated (silly) objectives, they realised none of them.
  
  So tell me. What difference did they make?
  
  Is notoriety really that important to people?

  Surely the highlight of their activity was repeatedly destroying the ship huttonorbital.com had kindly put there for their live Twitch feed, being enjoyed by dozens of individuals. I suspect that ship was singled out as not only would it cause the CMDR involved some CRs and time, but also aggravate dozens of other people trying to enjoy the community goal.
  
  ...and to put it into context with my post above, the Platform happily sat there, watching the same individuals turning up over and over, and destroying CMDR after CDMR, day after day... Surely the game needs to improve in this area?

 

[Hootmon]

It think it is amazing how they have found a way to actually be somebody in the Open World, not just a cog in the wheel. This is proof a few players can make a difference in a galaxy of many thousands.

It kind of reminds me of what Donald Trump has and is doing. Sort of like slowing down near an accident scene...

EDIT: I see Ziggy had a similar take.

 

[Roybe]

Lets examine that difference.

The CG was a succes regardless of their actions. All they achieved was shooting down some traders who just travelled 90 minutes. If you look at their stated (silly) objectives, they realised none of them.

So tell me. What difference did they make?

Is notoriety really that important to people?

Yes. And your point?

 

[Apos]

Who would not want to conquer Earth?

Neither the Alliance or the Empire to be honest, since both Alioth and Achenar are far better systems.

 

[Vladimar Rubicon]

- Updated - - -



We'll welcome you with open arms.

Well...that's not creepy at all....

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Lets examine that difference.

The CG was a succes regardless of their actions. All they achieved was shooting down some traders who just travelled 90 minutes. If you look at their stated (silly) objectives, they realised none of them.

So tell me. What difference did they make?

Is notoriety really that important to people?

They are being talked about, apparently they disrupted hundreds of commanders. The success of the goal is not what is important, but the effect it has on the game-world. Some players said they would now "boycott community goals", well the Code can take credit for that as well They get mentioned on Galnet, were some of the first players to get that honor. They are talked about ALL over the forums, and in local chat near their home-world, and in other groups I am a part of (and on Reddit). I also admire their attempt t a blockade, given that players can just go to solo and finish the goal anyway. Also I find it ironic that you ask me "Is notoriety really that important to people" when you have an Avatar of David Bowie AKA Ziggy Stardust. Sometimes people do it for the fame They exist in your consciousness now, and when you play in Open, you are aware of them. When there is a CG, you KNOW they are waiting for you. Granted, this only has full appeal to those of us who stay in Open regardless...

 

[bitstorm]

The former does negate the latter, but people don't seem to be convinced, so I'm going to do a thorough investigation to null further suspicion.

Thorough Investigation

Did you use a hack?
Nope it was a joke.
Nice one!

Guys he's innocent.


Seriously, what are you gonna do? Confiscate his computer and run forensics on it CSI style!

"I'm going to do a thorough investigation to null further suspicion" surely you mean "I'm going to do a thorough investigation to find out if members are hacking"?

You'd be forgiven for thinking the suspicion is the issue rather than any hacking.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Okay, I think people relatively finished their venting or providing feedback, I will now attend to my mountain of homework and update the things in question as soon as I finish investigating the issues.

Edit:

Never mind, people are still active.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Powers in PP would disappear...but the three galactic powers are forever in the game as they are.

This does not mean they have to maintain their power structure as it is. They can be weakened...just not destroyed.

The effort involved would be massive...

First...a concerted effort to kill both federation Powers in Powerplay.

Simultaneously, a large effort to flip systems that would decrease the CC income for those Powers

As the Powers fail, a larger push to keep flipping systems systematically spherically heading towards Sol.

Ultimately, a single red dot on the galactic map...surrounded by yellow balls.

The endgame would be the eradication of all Federation systems through out known space.

...oh sorry...

Spoiler

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/8c/ce/dc/8ccedc46b0cbaa6d78c87018965fddde.jpg

I just find it hard to believe that an Imperial family memeber could take Control of a Federation system and not flip the system to Empire. Does this happen? If not, it seems like the system needs more thought..

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Dear Gluttony Fang, I'd be interested in reading your opinion. This is my text copy-pasted from another thread...

Okay so, I've never been much of a gamer in the past. Grew up through the 70's, 80's and 90's which were good times watching how the original home PC's developed over that period. First home computer was a ZX81, graduated to a Vic=20, Commodore 64, Amiga 500, and Amiga 1200. Halcyon days.

Played a certain amount of games on all of those, especially Elite and Frontier: Elite II.

Had a huge gap of a couple of decades when I didn't even play games, apart from a brief flirtation with X: Beyond the Frontier

Totally missed Frontier: First Encounters.

Then E: D comes along and I missed the Kickstarter but threw money at my monitor for Premium Beta.

I suppose from the start of my E: D adventure, you could classify me as a 'carebear' (I've had to catch up with all this gaming lingo over the past year!). I've been outraged at the behaviour of a not insignificant amount of players, and have expressed that on the forums more than a few times.

In the last few months, however, I've been trying to re-evaluate my thoughts on what's been happening. I've been putting myself (mentally) in the shoes of players who have been player-killing, what you might call the "rabid PvP'ers". This has allowed me to try and empathise with their position.

There are a number of roles within the game; Trader, Explorer, Bounty-Hunter, and Pirate.

Each of those roles are considered equally valid in-game, and that's fine by me.

Now bear with me on the next couple of paragraphs...

With regards to the Pirate role, I've read countless postings here from many players who consider themselves playing this role faithfully; stop a trader, examine cargo, demand cargo under threat of violence. This, again, is fine by me.

I've also read countless postings by players who include causing indiscriminate death and mayhem, as quite legitimate and which also falls under the role of 'Pirate'. And do you know what? They're correct! Piracy isn't just all jolly Pirates Of The Caribbean, the reality is it's more Anything Goes - that includes blasting people out of the skies Just Because - that's something which used to enrage me, but now no longer does. It is quite legitimate behaviour in-game and actually follows the rules of the game, whether we 'carebears' like it or not.

Sure, blasting players out of the skies Just Because still enrages my sense of honour and justice, but nevertheless it's legitimate gameplay under the rules of the game.

The real issue is this;

The consequences for choosing to blast players out of the skies Just Because, are just plain non-existent for the perpetrator, and grossly unbalanced and unfair for the victim.

That's what makes this behaviour especially frustrating for the victim - and the potential victims.Example:

• CMDR Trader enters some system, proceeds to head towards some station.
• CMDR Rabid is in the mood for a bit of interdicting and blowing stuff up for the lulz.
• CMDR Trader gets interdicted, and without further ado his ship is being blasted with all kinds of Space Death.
• Meanwhile, the Space Cops appear to want to finish their donuts before listlessly appearing.
• CMDR Trader gets his ship blown up Just Because. CMDR Rabid gets all the lulz and flies away having had their fix.
• CMDR Trader sees a massive number in Credits on his rebuy screen.
• CMDR Rabid gets a proportionally tiny fine/bounty, and not even a smack on the wrist for being naughty.

The end result is the victim gets disproportionally punished multiple times in the game;

• Potentially massive financial penalty.
• The full and highly frustrating knowledge that there's proportionally little consequence for the perpetrator.
• Subsequent loss of victim's time and effort.
• Inevitable loss of victim's enjoyment of the game.

This turn of events can easily apply to CMDR Explorer.

This unbalanced equation does not make for an enjoyable gaming experience. (For the victim)

I'm sure even the PvP'ers see this. I've read a few of them express frustration that there's no inherent danger in-game for their deeds.

We should be directing our ire at FDEV - who have so far failed, despite countless topics on this, to manage to do anything to balance the equation.

Sure, there have been a few posts on the subject of griefing. But that addressed problems like ramming in stations and similar in-game exploits.

What hasn't been properly addressed in the game code, is FDEV's ongoing lack of including a proper system of Crime, Punishment, and System Security.

FDEV - please at least give us a statement on Crime, Punishment, and System Security. It's very heavily imbalanced (or nonexistent), and out of everything else considered high priority by other players (exploration, yadda yadda), I for one consider that to be THE priority right now.

In short; FDEV - what are you going to do about it, and when?

 

[GluttonyFang]

Well...that's not creepy at all....
View attachment 61467

I don't see it as creepy o-o, and as far as I am aware, I'm the only one that identifies as a furry in Code.

 

[Roberto]

This is getting personal again, why not just argue the argument, instead of calling people "ignorant" and complaining about their grammar. Can we not stick to the topic?

Your friend has been extremely patronising towards me from the get-go - and I'm a supporter of PvP generally. This sounds pretty personal as well...

No Cap H? You showed him lol.

Oh, ha ha ha! What an idiot I am, for thinking that hedonism - both the pursuit of pleasure generally and the school of thought - isn't capitalised! Except it isn't. But you can state that black is white as many times as you like, and clearly there's nothing I can do about it.

As for sticking to the topic, it's your friend who's been constantly skewing this discussion away from the specifics of the case and towards his philosophical interests. To clarify my own position:

PvP: great.
Random "psychopathic" acts: fine.
Groups of players picking off lone traders at the end of a 90-minute journey, with zero interaction, and even when they boost away instantly (which is what happened to me): not fun.
Claiming that what you're doing is "blockading this Community Goal" when the goal has already been accomplished (and then some): bizarre.

You have a point about the lack of organised opposition to your efforts. However, the 90-minute journey and the mechanics of the game generally (at the moment at least) put those of us who are against you at a disadvantage.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Thorough Investigation

Did you use a hack?
Nope it was a joke.
Nice one!

Guys he's innocent.


Seriously, what else are you gonna do? Confiscate his computer and run forensics on it CSI style?

Also "I'm going to do a thorough investigation to null further suspicion" surely you mean "I'm going to do a thorough investigation to find out if members are hacking"?

Well if he cannot prove it, and you cannot, then there is nothing to answer for is there. What more would you have them do?

 

[ianw]

They exist in your consciousness now, and when you play in Open, you are aware of them.

Well dog poo exists in my consciousness when I step on the grass outside - so from that I deduce that existing in someone's consciousness isn't necessarily a stamp of quality or desirability.

- - - Updated - - -

Well if he cannot prove it, and you cannot, then there is nothing to answer for is there. What more would you have them do?

Apply that same logic to the combat logging that they get so worked up about - because they cannot prove that either.

 

[Theodrid]

The former does negate the latter, but people don't seem to be convinced, so I'm going to do a thorough investigation to null further suspicion.

Because internal enquiries are always so transparent and never involve a conflict of interests.

 

[Apos]

Well dog poo exists in my consciousness when I step on the grass outside - so from that I deduce that existing in someone's consciousness isn't necessarily a stamp of quality or desirability.

Dog poo is important since it acts as a fertilizer for the same grass that you find appealing as a decoration for a garden.

So it's only a matter of looking at the grand scheme of things.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Your friend has been extremely patronising towards me from the get-go - and I'm a supporter of PvP generally. This sounds pretty personal as well...



Oh, ha ha ha! What an idiot I am, for thinking that hedonism - both the pursuit of pleasure generally and the school of thought - isn't capitalised! Except it isn't. But if you can state that black is white as many times as you like, and clearly there's nothing I can do about it.

As for sticking to the topic, it's your friend who's been constantly skewing this discussion away from the specifics of the case and towards his philosophical interests. To clarify my own position:

PvP: great.
Random "psychopathic" acts: fine.
Groups of players picking off lone traders at the end of a 90-minute journey, with zero interaction, and even when they boost away instantly (which is what happened to me): not fun.
Claiming that you're doing is "blockading this Community Goal" when the goal has already been accomplished (and then some): bizarre.

You have a point about the lack of organised opposition to your efforts. However, the 90-minute journey and the mechanics of the game generally (at the moment at least) put those of against you at a disadvantage.

"Your friend has been extremely patronising towards me from the get-go" Then I am sure the moderator would have warned him for being out of hand.

"Oh, ha ha ha! What an idiot I am, for thinking that hedonism - both the pursuit of pleasure generally and the school of thought - isn't capitalised! Except it isn't. But if you can state that black is white as many times as you like, and clearly there's nothing I can do about it."

I think the mod already asked us to drop this spurious line of debate, it is not relevant to anything.

"Random "psychopathic" acts: fine."

Again, this is exactly the sort of armchair psychiatry we were asked to stop indulging in.

"You have a point about the lack of organised opposition to your efforts. However, the 90-minute journey and the mechanics of the game generally (at the moment at least) put those of against you at a disadvantage."

It was ONE community goal, and a joke one at that. A Hutton goal lol, when I heard I thought it was a prank. How could anyone take the hauling of scrap there seriously? So a new rare can be added? Who is gonna want to trade with Hutton after this? The goal succeeded anyway..sooo

 

[ianw]

Dog poo is important since it acts as a fertilizer for the same grass that you find appealing as a decoration for a garden.

So it's only a matter of looking at the grand scheme of things.

Nice try but no cigar.

Woof-woof waste does not a good fertilizer make. It is actually toxic to your lawn, causing burns and unsightly discoloring.
Beyond your grass, it has been estimated that a single gram of dog waste can contain 23 million fecal coliform bacteria, which are known to cause cramps, diarrhea, intestinal illness, and serious kidney disorders in humans. EPA even estimates that two or three days’ worth of droppings from a population of about 100 dogs would contribute enough bacteria to temporarily close a bay, and all watershed areas within 20 miles of it, to swimming and shell fishing.
http://www.doodycalls.com/resources-toxic-dog-waste/

 

[GluttonyFang]

Fold

Hi,

I think the complaint is valid to a degree.

However, pirates aren't the same as grievers. Many grievers believe they are pirates when they're not by The Code standard.

We are not establishing some universal definition of what a pirate is, but we distinguish ourselves from grievers.

The police reaction time is already too quick, to the point where PP players can't effectively piracy undermine. Then as a solo pirate, the police arrives way too fast even with the use of collector drones.

I feel that we need to introduce a flag system in Open, where people can label themselves PvP or PvE to prevent this sort of fragmentation in the community.

Hope that helps.

- - - Updated - - -

Because internal enquiries are always so transparent and never involve a conflict of interests.

I am acting in the interest of the community, if you can't have faith in my professionalism, I don't know what to say.