[INDEPENDENT] Buckyball Racing Club

[Jhyrryl]

The Case for a BBRC Faction

I just wanted to make this case since I wasn't part of those original discussions, then I'll leave it alone.

Imagine running Turbo Hour while there is a Community Goal to deliver goods between two of those stations.

Spoiler

CGs typically amount to travelling back and forth between points A and B; sounds a lot like racing. What better publicity is there than for the club to sponsor CGs in connection with racing locations?

In a sense, participating in a CG-related race is a way of giving prizes, especially if the race rules are structured to encourage repeat runs. Again, thinking about Turbo Hour.

Factions don't own stations, they simply have a local presence. Think of it as having secured a special hangar for the Shotgun Shine. So rather than trying to dominate a single station to take control of it, I would propose that the faction simply establish a presence in as many relevant systems as possible.

I understand that drakhyr may not have time to do that kind of organization, but others might especially as a team.

 

[Raiko]

So rather than trying to dominate a single station to take control of it, I would propose that the faction simply establish a presence in as many relevant systems as possible.

It's not actually possible to do this.

Minor factions have to have dominant influence in one system to expand, and you have virtually no control over the system that you expand into.

I'm not as passionate about it as Robinjb, but I do agree with him that as a group we should stay out of the politics (although I'm fine with anyone who wants to incorporate BGS based stuff into a race).

I truly hope that eventually, when we can walk around on each others ships, and fully customise our own ship, that The Shotgun Shine will become a reality in the game. Sadly that's going to be a few years away.

 

[Jhyrryl]

It's not actually possible to do this.

Minor factions have to have dominant influence in one system to expand, and you have virtually no control over the system that you expand into.

Really? I'd have expected that the group's in-game actions would guide those decision. That's really unfortunate.

 

[Raiko]

Really? I'd have expected that the group's in-game actions would guide those decision. That's really unfortunate.

The BGS picks the system that your faction expands to, it is possible to predict the most likely candidates, but you have no control. As you say it's unfortunate.

Player factions aren't actually any different than NPC factions other than being given control of a home system to start off with, and being allowed to choose the name. Indeed SEPP was an NPC faction backed by a few explorers long before player factions were a thing (as were many of the other player factions). The BGS gameplay hasn't been changed by the introduction of player factions at all, other than by a few bug fixes and a few new bugs.

 

[Jhyrryl]

The BGS picks the system that your faction expands to, it is possible to predict the most likely candidates, but you have no control. As you say it's unfortunate.

Player factions aren't actually any different than NPC factions other than being given control of a home system to start off with, and being allowed to choose the name. Indeed SEPP was an NPC faction backed by a few explorers long before player factions were a thing (as were many of the other player factions). The BGS gameplay hasn't been changed by the introduction of player factions at all, other than by a few bug fixes and a few new bugs.

And the ability to sponsor Community Goals. That's the thing I'd want from a racing club group.

 

[furrycat]

Gold weekend ticket for Lavecon 2016 now bought. Find me at the bar and shout Buckyball in my ear to claim your complimentary drink!

It took me a while to decide whether to go or not but I have now committed and purchased a gold ticket. See you at the bar.

 

[Alec Turner]

It took me a while to decide whether to go or not but I have now committed and purchased a gold ticket. See you at the bar.

Hmmm, two Buckyball Race organisers at Lavecon ... it's a shame they probably won't allow running in the hotel because I just had a great idea!

 

[Ian Phillips]

You can run around the car park - it's quite large

<edit> Bonus points if you can catch one of the rabbits?

 

[Alec Turner]

You can run around the car park - it's quite large

<edit> Bonus points if you can catch one of the rabbits?

Hmmm, waypoints = traffic cones, docking/refuelling = pints to be necked ... this could work!

 

[Alec Turner]

Hmmm, waypoints = traffic cones, refuelling = pints to be necked ... this could work!

Docking ...

Spoiler

[video=youtube;pzXCUKXlFJQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzXCUKXlFJQ[/video]

Oh man, this idea has got legs. Somebody bring a stopwatch!

 

[robinjb]

I just wanted to make this case since I wasn't part of those original discussions, then I'll leave it alone.
What better publicity is there than for the club to sponsor CGs in connection with racing locations?
In a sense, participating in a CG-related race is a way of giving prizes, especially if the race rules are structured to encourage repeat runs. Again, thinking about Turbo Hour.
Factions don't own stations, they simply have a local presence. Think of it as having secured a special hangar for the Shotgun Shine. So rather than trying to dominate a single station to take control of it, I would propose that the faction simply establish a presence in as many relevant systems as possible.
I understand that drakhyr may not have time to do that kind of organization, but others might especially as a team.

sry about the wall of text but you made me do it.
what I don't want to happen is some other player group gets a bee in there bonnet about Ai ships belonging to our faction and then taking it out on the races.
there's been murmurings about favouritism for factions being displaced from some systems..its only gonna take a 4 man wing of trolls who we mistakenly displace from a system to hassle the slower members of the group.
sure if someone wants to troll the start/ finish line they can do that and wait all day for one of us to show up.
and yeah maybe it would be exciting to get a player group en masse trying to fun us over.. but not every race.. if you want to hire mercs to make things more interesting then we can do that.
id love to have AI BRC pilots in the fastest ships docking at high speeds and grav braking to station in sc. or multiple AI at a station all doing a racing start..
but I think you know as well as I do that itll be type 9's humping the pad and getting blown up by the station.. which only reflects a small percentage of us.
I think theyd have to make the ai worse to be like some of the things ive done.. but I just don't think the game can support anything like what I could get behind atm.
and where ever you suggest the home system to be .. someone will have a problem with it.
but if everyone wants a base and ai BRC t9's humping the pads...fair enough.. ill go with what ever drakhyr wants to do at the end of the day.

Im usually the party pooper with regard to any ideas anyone has about the group.. but I like to think im pretty reasonable and thinking long term about what effect any move may have on the groups rep in the game.
you could say over cautious.. one of us has to be.
the main aim is.. 24 events a year of fine quality racing don't forget.. and I think we are doing well at achieving that. part of the beauty of buckyballing is it uses the simplest mechanics In the game that fdev cant mess up.
I don't think I need to tell you that the BGS is too much for the game to handle,
as far as what better advertising we could have than a cg.. yeah .. but I think over the last 6 weeks we've had plenty of advertising from fdev and weve got what 5 new flyers.. we are a small group.. theres maybe 20 hardcore..
and 20 floating about. its pretty easy to see previous participation, im not sure its going to get any bigger any faster because they don't seem to be coming to try it out when we shout about it..
maybe its seen as too boring.. or too complicated. maybe they think they need to bring a buckyball.. maybe they think we race buckyballs.. not ships.. who knows.

I would like to hear a stronger argument than itd be good to sponsor a cg.. couldn't we just lobby zac to do that for us anyway in time and write a event around it. or do we need x amount of players in our group.. does that mean we will have 50 members all hosting a race.. how does that work.. ive not had a race for months.. and some of us haven't even had one yet.. imagine waiting 2 years to be able to host a race.
I think I get to host one next august.. but im not sure.. if we get new guys in do they all host a race.? id quite like to do 2 races a year.. if that's not greedy.. I mean that's if weve got 12 hardcore members.. that's two each right? I actually think 2 week races are too long.. 7 or 8 days should do it. then we could get more in.. 3 a month.. with a few days off in between. especially if theres more people that would like to host.
then theres Ez and his races when ever they might be to accommodate.
whos actually in our group? theres only 12 of us here in the thread that regularly race and want to host isn't there?

 

[Jhyrryl]

I'm not sure if a non-faction group can petition for a CG. Maybe they can. All I know is that CGs see hundreds, if not thousands of participants. It makes me wonder what it would do for attendance, if there were a race that coincided with a CG. I think it would skyrocket, but the only way to know for sure is to do it, which I thought required a faction.

From my perspective though what Raiko said pretty much shoots down anything that I'd want to do with a faction. I completely agree that this group should remain politically neutral, and there's apparently no way to do that. If there's a dedicated base then you're right, there's a dedicated target. I was hoping to not really have a base so much as...contacts, for lack of a better word. But again, that's a no go.

As for how many races, organized by whom...I'll happily do as many or as few as are necessary to keep things running smooth. Right now I'm planning Spring Break, and I'd like to have variants for each of the seasons, but that's totally not necessary if it's going to overload the schedule, since I'm not officially a member of the club. I don't think.

----------------

On another note...today I managed to iron out the last wrinkles from my code and data massaging tools for the "My True Love Sent To Me" rebroadcast. I've also recorded the 113 different GalMap camera zooms that were required, and now only need to record the 204 leaderboard updates that occur during the event. Then I can start splicing it all together. Turned out to be a little more complicated than I was expecting.

Furrycat, I should have a JSON format for your race before it's over, if you're still interested in providing it.

 

[furrycat]

sry about the wall of text but you made me do it.

He speaks the truth. As I said I'd love there to be a faction. That said it's very difficult to argue with the points made. I don't see how we could respect the group and the current mechanics simultaneously.

but I think you know as well as I do that itll be type 9's humping the pad and getting blown up by the station.. which only reflects a small percentage of us.

I chuckled at the fact you said "small" and not "zero" percentage.

I actually think 2 week races are too long

/innocentWhistle

I should have a JSON format for your race before it's over

Right you are, sir.

 

[Jhyrryl]

Check it out...real-time leaderboards for MTLSTM.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=217543&page=3&p=3491123&viewfull=1#post3491123

 

[racer1]

I don't think the Hutton Truckers were a minor faction when they ran their CG - could be wrong.

I'd love the club to be the back story for a CG. But the slot gets very busy on CGs lol. I'd love the chaos but not sure the average CGer would.

 

[Raiko]

Wall of text of my own now (sorry).

I think I get to host one next august.. but im not sure.. if we get new guys in do they all host a race.? id quite like to do 2 races a year.. if that's not greedy.. I mean that's if weve got 12 hardcore members.. that's two each right? I actually think 2 week races are too long.. 7 or 8 days should do it. then we could get more in.. 3 a month.. with a few days off in between. especially if theres more people that would like to host.

I've been thinking more or less the same, but haven't gotten around to posting my thoughts. Buckyball Run 9 was only for a week (as were all the 'warm up' races), and it seems perfect.

Another thing to think about is Alot's idea of ending on a Saturday, rather than a Sunday. As well as avoiding the final day being spoiled by the weekly server issues, if the events ran Sunday-to-Saturday, whether one or two weeks long they could run back to back when necessary without clashing.

It's a while away, but I'd be perfectly happy to run this year's Bootlegger Challenge as a one week Sunday-to-Saturday event to see how it goes.

I'd also really like to see a few 'live' races on the first or last day like Buckyball-9 live. I couldn't make it to the 2nd live run, but the first was awesome. I'd be more than happy for these to occur in open mode as well, not just in private groups, so that furrycat could join the next one. Again I'd happily run a 'live' race at the Bootlegger Challenge (just maybe not for whatever madness Mrs Lonnegan had planned for this year! )

I don't see how we could respect the group and the current mechanics simultaneously.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I'm hopeful personally that we'll eventually be able to gather in the bar of EZ's The Shotgun Shine, or <-lightspeed->'s Amen Break for real, even if it's a few years down the line. The First Person stuff in Star Citizen is already looking very good in their Alpha persistent universe, so I'm rather hoping that FD will make a great job of their own, to avoid looking rubbish in comparison.

Check it out...real-time leaderboards for MTLSTM.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=217543&page=3&p=3491123&viewfull=1#post3491123

That looks great.

I don't think the Hutton Truckers were a minor faction when they ran their CG - could be wrong.

The Hutton CG was a result of the rare goods competition, and Hutton Orbital Radio, the Hutton Truckers, etc came about externally to the game as a result of:
a) amazing planning by the guy who thought up the mugs and the whole event,
b) the strong community that formed to help get over the horrific super cruise (and queuing for the medium pad at Hutton)
c) the CODE blockade

So the Hutton Orbital Truckers weren't a minor faction at the time (H.O.T and CODE were first made minor factions for the Cobra vs Vipers 1.4 Beta clash), but they existed as a large player group prior to player factions being added (ever since the CG). And the CG, along with the Sothis Gold one and the Master Chef one (I think), was created as a result of the rares competition.

I'm not sure that a CG would be beneficial to us; many of the CG players get quite touchy about losing ships (either to pirates, or smuggling CG participants boosting through the slot), but perhaps I'm wrong. We certainly could have tried to submit a CG based around the "airshow" for Turbo Hour. And a CG requesting rare "legal drugs" at the same time as the Bootlegger Challenge would make ALL of the closest stations busy.

There's no harm in trying to submit a companion CG at the same time as some of our races, providing the back story adds to the race theme. The main worry is how toxic the forums can get due to the pvp that occurs at CGs in open. I've never been in any doubt that trade CGs are intended to create bottlenecks in the Open galaxy in order for pvp piracy to occur (the same goes for the two infamous rares hubs around Leesti and 39-Tauri).

If we ran a CG that coincided with a race, then we'd have to be prepared for our stripped down and unshielded racing ships to get shot at by the pirates (and plain-murders) that turn up at CGs. I'm fine with that, and it would actually enhance the Bootlegger Challenge in my opinion, but I know from reactions of forum posters at trade CGs that many don't feel the same way.

 

[drakhyr]

A few thoughts from me:

Faction

Personally, I'm against the idea of having a Buckyball Racing Club minor faction. The key reasons have already been covered by robinjb and Raiko - player group minor factions are the same as any other minor faction, the mechanics of which are all set up around controls of stations and systems, which I don't think is appropriate for us. Plus it doesn't feel right for me for the BRC to have a dedicated home systems - the club is nomadic, and individual members may each have their own home systems (which could be associated with other groups).

Community Goals

There doesn't appear to be any link between having a minor faction and being able to create a community goal. If we can come up with a good community goal idea, I'm sure we could submit it. That said, FD do ask for them to be flexible on date (to fit in amongst other goals they are running), and I'm not sure we would really want to be mixing racers, goal-followers and the pirating or bullying groups that seem to follow CGs...

On the subject of Community Goals, we have been invited to be included in the EliteCG subreddit, as they are now including player-driven community events as well as official community goals. We have a post up already for Turbo Hour. It would be helpful to have somebody to take charge of looking after that, putting posts up for new events, and being the primary point of contact for any questions; that ought to be somebody more active on Reddit than I am myself. Any volunteers?

Race Scheduling

I'm open to different race timings. I think it depends a bit on the race - it probably is reasonable to have a longer period for races with multiple variants (e.g. I didn't get round to having a go at all the variants of The Art of Pandemonium, and was thinking that could probably have been two weeks). Overlapping a bit may be a possibility, especially if the overlap is between two substantially different races (e.g. a short and simple one partially overlapping with a longer and more complex one). That said, I'm a bit wary of overload if we end up running a different race every week.

I also agree the first-day or last-day live race concept is one we should be thinking about repeating.

 

[goemon]

just to let all here know:

- daedalus race is coming
- it will be an archaic race: going from tau cetis palm tree station (cause sol is permit restricted) to a system 0, +1000, 0., so distance will be a little above 1000 ly. no fuss.
- i'm planning an eagle-class
- i'm thinking about doing an eagle-class live event
- this weekend i'm scouting the target system, to make sure it can be reached with an eagle.

drakhyr already offered to answer all my questions on preparing a race ... anyway for english not being my native language, i might need your wits

 

[goemon]

concerning the minor faction debate. i can only warn, how much work and how much hassle the bgs is. also, how much pressure for members.

if brc is going that way, i would opt for a) make it an anatchy faction. no speeding laws! and b) get it into a system with a lot of factions, so brc won't get kicked out and c) make it background simulated ;-)

 

[Jhyrryl]

Race Scheduling

I'm open to different race timings. I think it depends a bit on the race - it probably is reasonable to have a longer period for races with multiple variants (e.g. I didn't get round to having a go at all the variants of The Art of Pandemonium, and was thinking that could probably have been two weeks). Overlapping a bit may be a possibility, especially if the overlap is between two substantially different races (e.g. a short and simple one partially overlapping with a longer and more complex one). That said, I'm a bit wary of overload if we end up running a different race every week.

I also agree the first-day or last-day live race concept is one we should be thinking about repeating.

I know I was begging for a longer race time when I first started working on Spring Break, but I've come around. My thought is to have a major event every-other week that lasts 8 days, starting and ending on Saturday; and then have a short mid-week madness event on the alternate weeks, running Tue-Wed-Thu.



It'd open up more opportunities for people to organize things, and the MWM events could be repeated as necessary if they aren't themed with a time of year.