Call to Arms for a Free Colonia

Then don't @ mention them...
Missed my point.
You are not excluded from here, just glad more of your side is showing up here, and not just you two. So you guys dont call this thread echo chamber.

Should be:
"Anyway, glad to see there's also cmdrs from other side here in this thread, not just @ TEBORI and @ LeKeno"

There, all understood? Sorry for hurting your feelings, wasn't my intention.
 
endurant (?).
makes them durable / they are durable/ they have endurance

Tenacious fits better probably though for your meaning In English though as RC said.

The agreement was very simple:
Both sides do not try to overthrow the other in their respected home systems.
If one side wishes that the other retreats from their home system it has to allow to be retreated from the other sides home system too.

There was never anything about us not expanding or taking over any other system.

Im being really nosey now but is this agreement public? Seeing as how it seems to be a major document in this conflict, just for public record....and nosey beggars like me :)
 
Im being really nosey now but is this agreement public?
Ratkatcher comments:
It was agreed in the CEI (Colonia Expansion Initiative) discord and witnessed - someone with access to the CEI discord could pull it up and post it - I have seen a copy of the agreement (screen grab) so do know it exists - but couldn't post it here...
 
makes them durable / they are durable/ they have endurance

Tenacious fits better probably though for your meaning In English though as RC said.



Im being really nosey now but is this agreement public? Seeing as how it seems to be a major document in this conflict, just for public record....and nosey beggars like me :)

I gotchu.

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Just noticed, you think you can/need to manipulate @Ian Doncaster to get from him info about conflict, relations, history, BGS and stuff?!

I'm under impression you just need to ask him and the man will gladly answer you to the best of his abilities.

That's why @Ian Doncaster has so much respect in community and you just show biggest disrespect to the man.

Ah..I am sorry, I was "out of character" all the time...now I see...:

(IC): You are a crazy Commander! You have been threatening simply everyone that does not seem to be on "your side" of the conflict. What are you? As you say, an anarchist, that lost his home. And crazy. I will treat you like a crazy criminal. Like this Son of God up here. Who tried to kill us on the name of his father. And now you, another young lad, coming from afar, not knowing anything, young, grandious (?) and thinking it is him, who will change the world. Your impressions are wrong.

You will not, crazy man!! You are not hard enough.

OOC: I am on PC, so sorry about that. I was not aware of this "roleplay/lore"-thing within this part of the forum.
 
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@Max Bothin, just to get it right, you are Likedeeler, and you were actively working BGS against Loren's Reapers and for fall of Carcosa?
Yes or no?
OC: No. As I said: I am at the bubble now (doing merits for the chinaman). I wasn´t playing for weeks before and I like you anarchists up here. And there was more going on, than your conflict since they changed the BGS. As far as I have experienced, the changes of the BGS changed the amount and type of work you have to do. There were a few factions simply pushed in retreat without the active work of others. I thought: the BGS pushes all inactive/little active PG out. So: who cares about your problems at Carcosa? I was concerned to measure the new effects and to modify the needed work on the problem. That was my priority.

IC: What do you care, crazy anarchist! I will never tell you!
 
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Im being really nosey now but is this agreement public? Seeing as how it seems to be a major document in this conflict, just for public record....and nosey beggars like me :)
A few interesting things to note about the treaty:
- it's only a bilateral one - while witnessed by many other regional powers, they're free to attack EN or Nameless as much as they want
- it doesn't oblige either side to come to the assistance of the other if a third party attacks them in a way that would be against the treaty if it was a first-party attack
- it doesn't oblige either side to help the other restore control of their home system if they lose it to a third party (or even not to take control from the third-party themselves)
- it doesn't discuss attacks on positions outside the home systems at all
- it doesn't discuss attacks on non-controlling assets in the home systems

I don't have sufficient detailed knowledge of ship dispositions or inter-power discussions (and what I do have for both sides is confidential) for this to be more than a theoretical point, but it would have been technically possible for all the actual BGS events of this conflict to have occurred without a single breach of the letter of the treaty if:
- either EN are happy not to contest a retreat from Carcosa should the situation ever arise in future (but they don't have to actively work to set up that retreat or actively help it go through) or EN were happy to allow a token Nameless presence to remain in Union, and didn't take actions there specifically to cause the retreat-lock conflicts (but they didn't have to try to prevent them, or try to help the Nameless expand back now).
- EN forces did not fight in the wars in Carcosa until SECD took the system
- EN did not encourage allies to carry out the initial attacks in Carcosa (but they don't have to try to dissuade others from attacking)

Whether or not that's what actually happened there are some interesting lessons there about treaties and their practical limitations for future diplomats.


(My first dealing with Colonia treaties was the very old Colonia Militia Forces agreement, which was even less well drafted than the above treaty, was changed without notice or notification by its creator to something equally badly drafted at least once so different signatories were unknowingly on different versions of it but incorrectly marked in public as having signed the latest version, and included at least one party whose very existence was so poorly defined that it was really unclear if they were actually a treaty signatory ... but as they were bringing a majority of the actual pilots no-one really asked too much about that. If it had actually obliged its signatories to take or refrain from any actual actions, some of that might have been more of a problem.)
 
(My first dealing with Colonia treaties was the very old Colonia Militia Forces agreement, which was even less well drafted than the above treaty, was changed without notice or notification by its creator to something equally badly drafted at least once so different signatories were unknowingly on different versions of it but incorrectly marked in public as having signed the latest version, and included at least one party whose very existence was so poorly defined that it was really unclear if they were actually a treaty signatory ... but as they were bringing a majority of the actual pilots no-one really asked too much about that. If it had actually obliged its signatories to take or refrain from any actual actions, some of that might have been more of a problem.)

As you mention it... what happened to the Militia? To my knowledge I am still a member of Twin Candles and the Militia, which is probably meaningless now though.
 
As you mention it... what happened to the Militia? To my knowledge I am still a member of Twin Candles and the Militia, which is probably meaningless now though.
All of Twin Candles decent PvP pilots ran off to Kurughnaye to become pirates, as did the Imperial ambassador.
Galcop left over the events setting up the CEI.
Iridium Wing left when CCN got its PMF on neutrality grounds
The other groups were mostly just members on paper only anyway.

You're probably technically supreme milita commander now.
 
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All of Twin Candles decent PvP pilots ran off to Kurughnaye to become pirates, as did the Imperial ambassador.

Dont know why I found this so funny but I do :)

You're probably technically supreme milita commander now.

Some of the best stories start with a plot line like this.....and end up with all the civilians following out of danger.....Lead them to their new home in Sag A Tharm, there'll be songs written about you :)
 
@Ian Doncaster - Thanks for the Treaty summation, very interesting the details of whats missing as well as whats in....

Confidentiality - Wouldnt expect anything less, no worries.

I owe you a bottle of wine for all the help you've given, thank you.
 
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