Yes indeed
Calling all Federation Commanders - We are at War with the Empire
- Thread starter FederationNavyHQ
- Start date
A well written response Commander Swift Arrow of the EIC and for that I offer my thanks and respects.
However you are missing one very important and fundamental fact about life in this galaxy, that of freedom of choice. All members of the pilots federation have the freedom to blaze their own trail.
As a Federation commander, my choices are not simply limited to just supporting other established Federation causes which you within your large Empire groups think to be acceptable and this is something of which I am extremely grateful. I am free to write my own story and this is the story I have chosen.
You seem convinced that this is something the Federation "cannot win" and that our "foolish activities" are worthless. You may yet be proven right. However, if this story can inspire other players to get involved and they get to experience even a fraction of the extra depth and immersion that this has given us all here in Operation Blossom then I will consider these activities to have been of the highest of worth and I would very much count that as a win.
I hope that all commanders following these events will feel free to choose their own path as this story unfolds.
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There never was a treaty between the Federation and the Empire in Liaedin! That was a treaty between minor factions. The Empire factions were told, flat out, that at least one minor Federation faction did not agree to the terms yet they signed the treaty anyway. The whole thing was laughable. Perhaps deals for a real peace treaty, one that ALL factions can agree to, is possible. But that joke of a treaty that amounted to nothing less than a Federation surrender WAS NOT IT.
How do you eat something that outruns you by almost 200 km/h?
Source for your information? Perhaps an (authoritative) link? And what were the demands of the one faction that did not agree to these terms? Were these demands reasonable? Evidently not, since the Federation as a whole went ahead and signed it anyways. You can't please all the people all the time, that's why compromise is necessary. It is the cornerstone of a peaceful society.
Okay... show me ANYTHING on Galnet about the Federation OR the Empire signing ANY treaty in Liaedin. That would be authoritative. What you have is a few small groups that said, "okay we call it quits". NONE of that is AUTHORITATIVE. Other Commanders, no matter how well organized, CANNOT speak on the behalf of someone who DID NOT give them the consent to do so. The groups that signed this "treaty" have no official voice for either the Federation or the Empire as a whole or even as a part. They only speak for the limited number of Commanders who have consented to membership in those tiny organizations.
Thank you for your compliments, I am quite flattered by the +reps I have received for my post.
That said, these choices do carry opportunity costs and repercussions. Energy spent supporting one operation means energy not spent somewhere else. A pilot has the right to criticize these poor choices wherever possible, and point out logical fallacies and falsehoods when they appear in print when these things are used to justify these poor choices (which I have done in my previous post).
I do appreciate the fact that you are trying to build a community and create a story in support of the Federation. But you undermine yourself when you resort to misrepresentations, fear-mongering and logical fallacies to justify what some may regard as a poor choice.
If you are going to build a community, it should based on truth and avoid logical fallacies to justify an operation, and engage in goals that actually make sense. Merchant Marines got it right by declaring operation Papercut, and they got recognized for it. I won't be surprised if their numbers increased hugely as a result of that acknowledgement by Frontier. Those are people not going to you.
I have made a case as to why operation Blossom makes absolutely no sense, even from the perspective of a pro-Federation perspective. This very fact is why EIC and other large pro-Federation groups (MM) have come to the agreement that they did. This resulted in forcing you to go public with your operation...a desparate move since you will attract some supporters, but those gains will be offset by galvanizing pro-Empire support for Liaedin in addition to the huge organization that is EIC.
Again, I appreciate your compliments, and I wish you the best of luck in providing that additional content and galvanizing players to get involved. Keep doing what you are doing, it will only help the Imperial Community grow. Your post generated more support for Liaedin than even EIC was able to accomplish, as the increase in PP's influence has shown.
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I just want to say how nice it is to find someone to blockade run against, I'll happily run goods past feds, imps or whomever if there is a buck in it. Just a shame the Crimson fortune company (local feds) don't have a platform or something - having to dig around to get missions that involve hauling some decent cargo in system. just brought in 9 tons of robotics for them at Peters station in the back of my Vulture while avoiding the EIC chaps - off to get my Cobra back out, Blockade running is what she was built for (sticks Copperhead road on the 8 track and roars out of the space dock ).
edit - just got tasked to bring in.... 2 tons of liquor - right Lavian brandy runner it is, you'll never catch me
edit - just got tasked to bring in.... 2 tons of liquor
- right Lavian brandy runner it is, you'll never catch me
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You misunderstand, the treaty I refer to (admittedly implied), is not the one between the player groups but as part of the in-game text itself.
"Once a disputed system" ....... implies it is no longer in dispute.
"Became part of the Empire after the warming of relations between the Empire and the Federation". Effectively, because the Federation and the Empire became friends (which implies a treaty), Liaedin became Empire. By choice, the Federation decided to end their claim to Liaedin, which means the Empire gained it by default.
If someone claims land, and there is no counter-claim, it becomes yours after a reasonable amount of time. Possession is 9/10 of the law as they say (which is esp true in space). This is common law 101.
Your turn.
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As I mentioned previously, which seems to have been missed, Theodore Schneider bequeathed Liaedin to two families, the Blossoms and the Faveols, and by extension both the Federation and the Empire. For many years both sides maintained starports in the systems. Where is the Federation starport now? The Empire controls the system fully now and is therefore unopposed to re-write history however it chooses within that system, regardless of fact.
A group of loyal commanders began to canvass the people of Liaedin for a return to the intended legacy of Theodore Schneider. When the people of Liaedin proved sympathetic to the plight of the Blossom family the Empire sent in the EIC to blockade the system fearful of the growing support to Liaedin's rightful status-quo as a home to both Empire and Federation. At the same time Patron's Principles began a war in the Federation system of Volungu.
Your information is a derivative of this post (from Elite 2 as well as the books):
http://www.frontierastro.co.uk/Gazetteer/liaedin.html
http://www.dream-ware.co.uk/frontier/books/gazetteer/
This source, however insightful, is ancient history and does not represent the current status of the system. There is very little current lore in regards to Liaedin sadly. We don't know what happened to the blossoms, and neither faction are represented in Liaedin. There is also no mention of Crimson Fortune company.
As you can see, the source (which is what you are quoting) is outdated because all this dispute business is negated by the "once a disputed system" statement (which is FRONTIER LORE, not some Empire re-write of history). As far as we know, both factions no longer exist in the current universe unless Frontier says otherwise (which they haven't....yet).
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You are correct Commander, we do not know what happened in Liaedin, so your assertion of a peaceful handing over of the system is pure speculation. My source may be dated, but yours in non-existent except for the current controlling faction's claims in the Cartographic data.
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Frontier wrote these "claims", not the faction (and you have no proof that cartographic data was written by the faction that controls it.....esp considering that Universal Cartographics is....as far as I know....a neutral party). Unless otherwise stated, that counts as lore.
Since Liaedin, per in-game text, is no longer disputed, the "possession is 9/10ths of the law" rule applies. Case closed.
You'll have to wait for the next war between the Federation and the Empire for another chance to get it back.
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Frontier wrote these "claims", not the faction. Unless otherwise stated, that counts as lore.
According to Cartographic Data the Imperial capital is underwater.
Perhaps this data is not the authoritative source you seem to believe.
Now you are grasping at straws.
"Water worlds" can still have islands and small continents. Nothing in your picture says it is "under water", or in any way contradicts established lore. Even if the capitol was "under water", that only makes the capitol that much more awesome! Under water cities are like way cool!
JOIN THE EMPIRE! WE GOT UNDER WATER CITIES!
Your argument is invalid.
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Perhaps commander, but you have no proof of any agreement or treaty regarding Liaedin. Your only "proof" is from Cartographic Data. Are you staking the lives of all these people on your faith in the accuracy and advocacy of Cartographic data? You have already stated that the EIC does not speak for the Emperor, we begin to see why.
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Guys its official there is now a CG in Volungu. We need more feds here!
If you actually talk to the Imperials in Liaedin, be respectful, and comply with their directions (you are in their space, after all), you might find them less prone to having a shoot-on-sight attitude with you. But if the Imperials interdict you, and you just run or flip the bird at them or generally act non-compliant, I hope for your sake that you are good at running away.
If any human ship interdicts me the first thing I do is run away, too many times I've had the 'drop cargo or we shoot' , dropped cargo, and then got shot.
But if you're running around like you own the place , of course I'm going to run cargo in because you want to stop me... that goes for feds as well...
But be warned, if I return fire.. you better be good or you're dead.
Bill
Perhaps I should have listened to my dad... shoot first and ask questions of the survivors
Are YOU "staking the lives of all these people" on information that is no longer current, nor relevant (except from a historical stand-point)?
Cartographic data (and all information there in) is official Frontier lore unless otherwise stated. If there is an error or weird information in cartographic data, that is a statement about Frontier's ability to write lore. It doesn't make it any less authoritative. If you are prepared to say that Frontier lore is not lore, than you completely invalidate all your arguments on history (since that, too, is Frontier lore).
It then degenerates back to the fact that this is a naked, war mongering grab for land in Liaedin because certain Federation players don't like seeing a blue dot in a sea of red. Empire is the defender in this case.