Calling on the community to play in Open Play

[Maiakaat]

Just because you've not experienced it, does not mean it is not going on.
There are people on these very forums who have posted recently that they enjoy shooting out peoples drives then leaving them there - not pirates, as they don't ask for cargo, they just pull people out of SC, kill the drives without a word and leave.

This is exactly why Solo and Private groups are needed - if this was forced on to everyone, people would give up playing - and you'd be back here moaning you never see anyone.
The only reason I bought the game was to play with my real life friends, which I do. I don't know either of you two, and no offence, I don't want to know you two in game so why should I have forced interactions with people not on my TeamSpeak server whom I have no interest in?

Sounds like the pair of you both need Star Citizen to hurry up, much more the size and pace you want. If you bought this as a filler until then, you bought the wrong game.

Surely if this is happening in anarchic systems though it is a fair part of the risk, perhaps with increased security though in most other systems.

I really haven't seen many posts like this in a while, and I come on the forums every day. But yes there is a lot of new posts every day

I've made some constructive suggestions at the bottom, as this was only ever meant to be an open discussion, I wasn't around for the beta so didn't know about the long frustrating debates that had already happened. I'm trying to be constructive in how I address these concerns, I hope you can understand.

 

[dalmar72]

A big selling point in Elite is the ability to play in a real dynamic universe with other human players, much of the criticism comes from not enough contact with a vibrant MMO community, and it seems increasing numbers of players are now playing in Solo mode.

I'm calling on players to play in open play so we can have participation in a dynamic universe, rather than spend most of our time dealing with NPC's, we have a role to play in making the game environment more dynamic and exciting and currently we are not doing it.

I see on average 1-2 players in each system, which pretty much suggests unless there is only a few thousand active players in the populated part of the universe at any one time on Open Play, since most trading takes place in about 2,000 systems.

I play on open or on a private group (PVE Mobius to stop griefing), but have moved more to the open play because,...... I have NEVER seen another actual CMDR, So i have never been griefed, so there isn't that much to worry about.

 

[Striike]

I have opted out of open play because to me it seems pointless. As others have pointed out, the benefits of Open Play are:
1. Interactions with other players.
2. More dynamic universe, IE less predictable encounters.
3. More of a rush with pirating and/or trading.
However, the flaws with this idea are:
1. 100 billion systems is a lot, and even in populated systems running into other players is few and far between.
2. As pointed out, the instancing is jacked, I sometimes don't see my friends, much less some random player.
3. The only interaction with other players is communication. There is no trading, bartering, crafting, co-operative anything, central hubs that would actually attract crowds, pvp zones, or any thing that brings players together. You know, the basic stuff an MMO usually implements?
Add in most of them items from number 3 along with incentives, and players like me will come to open play. Right now, the only 2 reasons I can see to come into open play are to pirate other players, or to enjoy the rush of getting pirated by another player. Sorry that doesn't do it for me.

 

[nosscar]

truth is there is a lot of opinions about the different groups, but they are almost the same, not much difference, so either make them different or why have them at all, just have the one. they are all online, they share the same galaxy. They are all safe.

(the only difference is you might happen to see human players once in a long while)

 

[ascendence]

but the game is all about "muh singleplayer experience!!1"

 

[Matt Hawkins]

2): You realize that if they shoot you first, and you aren't already wanted they become wanted? (unless you have report crimes against you off). That means if you do defend yourself in the no fire zone you get a FINE not a BOUNTY. It still amazes me how many people haven't figured out through player that there is a difference. Fines don't make you wanted and don't get you shot at because you have to pay them off at the faction that issued them, and they come from things like firing in the no fire zone, pad loitering, etc. Even smuggling is usually just a fine. BOUNTIES on the other hand come from attacking and/or killing another player. Bounties cause WANTED to appear above your heat signature, and if you go into a system map and move over the station wanted will appear above all the ones that will shoot at you if you get scanned at them.

Yes I realise that. My first shot got me a fine for firing in the no fire zone. The other player was wanted. My second shot got me wanted status. A few seconds later I was being shot at by security. Luckily I could jump to a different system and pay off the fine and bounty. It seemed a bit strange I was attacked by the station within seconds while the wanted player who was the aggressor was free to do as he pleased. If I had been playing Solo I wouldn't have needed to mess about.

 

[Maiakaat]

Yes I realise that. My first shot got me a fine for firing in the no fire zone. The other player was wanted. My second shot got me wanted status. A few seconds later I was being shot at by security. Luckily I could jump to a different system and pay off the fine and bounty. It seemed a bit strange I was attacked by the station within seconds while the wanted player who was the aggressor was free to do as he pleased. If I had been playing Solo I wouldn't have needed to mess about.

I think this is just a case of inexperience, and Frontier needing to iron out a few quirks, are you sure it was another player NPC's seem to be the only threat to my character? Has it happened since the game has stabilized (ie. since 2 weeks after the release date, so that initial excitement has died down?) If so then you were unlucky, and need to make sure you are outside the no fire zone.

 

[SpaceGoblin]

I think this is just a case of inexperience, and Frontier needing to iron out a few quirks, are you sure it was another player NPC's seem to be the only threat to my character? Has it happened since the game has stabilized (ie. since 2 weeks after the release date, so that initial excitement has died down?) If so then you were unlucky, and need to make sure you are outside the no fire zone.

Although if folks outside a no fire-zone are being allowed to shoot at folks inside said zone with no penalty, I'd find that to be a loophole that could do with closing.

 

[Maiakaat]

Although if folks outside a no fire-zone are being allowed to shoot at folks inside said zone with no penalty, I'd find that to be a loophole that could do with closing.

Yeah certainly agree there, the trajectory of the weapon should also need to stay outside the no-fire zone

 

[Dabba]

I'm screening this call. Straight to voicemail. Rather talk to a telemarketer.

 

[Maiakaat]

I'm screening this call. Straight to voicemail. Rather talk to a telemarketer.

I just love mature intelligent contributions like this, where us adults can have a serious discussion about what might improve gameplay for differing types of experience, where members simply ignore the thread or post valid comments, rather than responding with childish remarks whenever they disagree with something

I've made some observations in the original post, if you disagree fine, but most sane people would not rather talk to a telemarketer than have a reasoned debate about something that clearly has got confrontational in the past.

Most of us are managing to discuss this like adults.

 

[Draconus]

Something as simple as a docking queue for crowded stations would probably solve the "Docking Request Denied" issue that seems to be one of the reasons for avoiding Open.

I think it's a little more realistic if there are times when you try to dock that the station is in fact full - especially at an outpost when they only have a few pads to begin with. Also, the threat of PvP, which for an online game is pretty minimal, seems to be synonymous with the lore of Elite and it's dangerous spaceways. If by playing Solo you are effectively trying to play "easy mode" then you're only diluting what is an amazing game.

All that aside, I can respect those that don't want to be in Open, even if I don't really understand. I just believe that players should only be able to effect the story from Open.

 

[Corwyn]

David Braben even started that to see a another player in Open Online should be rare. The fact that players have been chased over to Solo by PvP griefers, is a major factor as well.

I started playing back in Open Online, and did fine. Then, one day, a single PvP player interdicted me 3 times within 20 minutes. The same player. That's griefing as far I'm concerned. I moved back to Solo, and intend to stay there. I expect open will become a ghost town, leaving only the PvPers to gank each other, I'd they see each other. Solo players will uphold the economy, since its all the same economy.

 

[Shintai]

David Braben even started that to see a another player in Open Online should be rare. The fact that players have been chased over to Solo by PvP griefers, is a major factor as well.

I started playing back in Open Online, and did fine. Then, one day, a single PvP player interdicted me 3 times within 20 minutes. The same player. That's griefing as far I'm concerned. I moved back to Solo, and intend to stay there. I expect open will become a ghost town, leaving only the PvPers to gank each other, I'd they see each other. Solo players will uphold the economy, since its all the same economy.

If its supposed to be rare in open play. How will it be when we can walk around in stations? Even less? It kinda breaks the MMO part. And then leave us with something that could just as well be a Solo/Group game.

As I see it, Frontier simply made a mistake with the massive amount of populated systems.

 

[Soulstain]

I have played in both open and solo and to be honest, I see no reason to play in open.
When I play in open, I experience lag and when I play solo, I don't. I have no friends who want to play this game so I have no need to group up. The real elephant in the room is the fact that there is no need to group up. There is no real content to this game which requires you to group up. I can progress along in the game right now just the same as if it was solo/offline.

I fly in a fairly well fitted Cobra. I mainly bounty hunt. I don't carry much cargo. I have no fear of being attacked or griefed in open play so that is not why I avoid it. There just is no reason to play there. The occasional chance of experiencing real combat with a human player is not worth the lag. On top of that, there is such a clunky comms that if someone hailed me I would probably miss it.

I have been a long time MMO fan and player, so I understand the richness of playing with others. I just don't believe this game provides any meaningful reason to do it. Maybe in the future that will change. For now I will remain in solo because as others have said, the only reason to play there is to be bait for the bored. It doesn't matter if you are NEVER griefed, for many it would be seen by them as the only reason for being there as the game provides pretty much no benefit in open over solo. It really is a solo game with multiplayer tidbits. It is not a fully fleshed out MMO experience with fully fleshed out MMO mechanics and fully fleshed out MMO purpose. That is the reality and the reason at this point to not care about open.

 

[Maiakaat]

David Braben even started that to see a another player in Open Online should be rare. The fact that players have been chased over to Solo by PvP griefers, is a major factor as well.

I started playing back in Open Online, and did fine. Then, one day, a single PvP player interdicted me 3 times within 20 minutes. The same player. That's griefing as far I'm concerned. I moved back to Solo, and intend to stay there. I expect open will become a ghost town, leaving only the PvPers to gank each other, I'd they see each other. Solo players will uphold the economy, since its all the same economy.

I've only played since the release, when the consequences were not going to be reset, and it hasn't been like that, but I appreciate it was apparently bad during the beta at times.

I don't care about combat much, so its not about griefing, its just about seeing major hubs be major hubs and knowing events are dictated by humans who you can interact with, as per Draconus comment, this is one of the issues I have listed in the original discussion post that should be fixed, along with the other points which those in solo need addressing.

Also there needs to be a risk with dangerous systems and unknown systems I think (personally)

 

[Daffan]

They need to make an open-only server

Keep the solo/private/open server as choice #1

but make an Open-only server as choice #2

boom

Both groups are happy.

 

[Maiakaat]

I have played in both open and solo and to be honest, I see no reason to play in open.
When I play in open, I experience lag and when I play solo, I don't. I have no friends who want to play this game so I have no need to group up. The real elephant in the room is the fact that there is no need to group up. There is no real content to this game which requires you to group up. I can progress along in the game right now just the same as if it was solo/offline.

I fly in a fairly well fitted Cobra. I mainly bounty hunt. I don't carry much cargo. I have no fear of being attacked or griefed in open play so that is not why I avoid it. There just is no reason to play there. The occasional chance of experiencing real combat with a human player is not worth the lag. On top of that, there is such a clunky comms that if someone hailed me I would probably miss it.

I have been a long time MMO fan and player, so I understand the richness of playing with others. I just don't believe this game provides any meaningful reason to do it. Maybe in the future that will change. For now I will remain in solo because as others have said, the only reason to play there is to be bait for the bored. It doesn't matter if you are NEVER griefed, for many it would be seen by them as the only reason for being there as the game provides pretty much no benefit in open over solo. It really is a solo game with multiplayer tidbits. It is not a fully fleshed out MMO experience with fully fleshed out MMO mechanics and fully fleshed out MMO purpose. That is the reality and the reason at this point to not care about open.

Valid points, hopefully it'll improve with time

 

[Wicz]

I play all three modes depending on how I feel when I click start, and I can't see what my choice has to do with anybody else.

I'm more than happy for all players to play how they like, and to affect the story ( they paid too ) regardless of their mode of choice. This will be my position even if, in the very near future, I decide to play open mode exclusively.

 

[Yokai]

(Note to the OP: change your font color in the OP: too much is obsured and hard to read.)

Back to the point of the OP and this thread, it's really really really really really simple: In Open mode, there is too much risk/pain/cost and not enough reward to balance against that. It's a balance issue that revolves largely, but not completely, around two things that are entirely under FD's control (not player control):

A. Repair costs for larger ships are insane. If you have larger than a T7, gettting forcibly interdicted alone will ding you for 10% damage, even if you get away. That's a prohibitive repair cost for a commander who wasn't looking for PvP at the time. Likewise, potential loss of cargo (or your entire ship) to a pirate is an enormous loss. It's not a "fun" or "thrilling" little "sting" of defeat: it's being mauled by a bear and ending up in the hospital for 3 months with a bill that will take you the rest of your life to pay off afterward.

B. Docking queues in Open mode are maddening.

Now, even if FD address the above two inhibitors to open play, you're still stuck with the actions of griefers. I will probably never play Open mode even if the above two issues are fixed for the same reason I will never play ArchAge. ArchAge is fundamentally flawed in that traders take ALL the risk, and bandits/pirates take ZERO risk. In Archage, you spend lots of time/effort/cost to assemble a trade pack and then journey across dangerous territory to sell it at a profit. Meanwhile, any "pirate" with rags on their back can attack you, kill you, destroy your expensive ship, and steal ALL of your cargo and sell it themselves for pure profit.

Sound familiar? Yep. IMO, that's a fundamental flaw in ED's Open mode too. Honestly, FD needs to go back to the drawing board. The only way to overcome this current glaring design flaw is by somehow making the _reward_ for traders in Open mode balance with the risk. I could think of MANY ways to do this:

* You could simply make trading in Open mode significantly more profitable than trading in Solo mode. For example, the current time-gating for trading is roughly 8000 cr/ton/hour, on average. So why not leave that figure the same if you're playing in Solo mode, but increase that by a factor of 2x in Open mode? (16000 cr/ton/hour)?

* Or (and) you could have a simple mechanic in Open mode only, whereby IF you are interdicted by a real player AND you escape, you earn 200,000 cr. Not only that, but the 200,000 cr is actually deducted from the other player! If they don't actually have 200,000 to lose, then at the very least they are busted back to a Sidewinder and 1000 cr, and you still get your +200,000 cr anyway. Then sweeten the pot even further by making that number 400,000 cr if you actually fight and kill the interdicting player pirate.

Those are just two ideas. And the 200,000 cr is just a sample number: it could/should scale depending on the value of your current ship (you shouldn't win 200,000 for escaping in a Hauler, for example). The point of the second idea is to make it a _significant_ risk for player pirates to attack another player. And to _significantly_ reward players for dealing with the hassle of being interdicted and attacked by another player. And you have to make the penalty for pirate-attacking another player very harsh to prevent gaming the system between two or more cooperating parties.