Calling on the community to play in Open Play

[CMDR Bansidhe]

As forums are a written medium, tone is difficult to assess - emoticons help with this problem.

True. You'll get no argument from me on that score. Luckily you can bypass the need for all that by being totally bleeding obvious.

So people really thought I was coming on to the guy? For real? Some random stranger? On the net. Who I was arguing with?

Not sure if that is a common occurrence where you guys live but round here that would be pretty freaking absurd.

That's the problem with the internet, I guess. Everybody talks so much crap that nobody knows the difference between reality and absurdity.

Still, if I think about it, I took people seriously when they espoused the "PVPers are all nasty griefers" idea and that's just as obviously absurd.

 

[Dabba]

I think some of this could be down to sheer excitement at release, and misunderstanding, but how could a human player have a cobra on the day of release? Did they not get ships reset?

I'm seeing quite a few who are just attributing attacks by players on the assumption that pirates behave better, so while you knew what was happening, its getting to the point where people are claiming attacks without knowing about the radar indicators, which is buried half way inside the manual.

It seems to have calmed down now, but if you are interested in a solo experience that's ok, and I understand that it was crappy when you tried open.

I started on the 23rd or something after doing some reading and tutorials for a few days to a week, maybe I've been dumped on an instance with differing people.

Hopefully Frontier can make open better without affecting solo negatively.

The beta testers had the option to keep their gamma accounts, which I believe started about 3 weeks before launch. There were already player flown Anacondas on launch day because of the way rare commodity trading worked during gamma. I knew the difference in the icons, it was definitely a human CMDR.

Honestly I wasnt even all that upset about how it went down, I get how these games work. It was the reception to a simple question on the forums after the fact in combination with the experience of getting blown out of the sky for no reason 5 minutes after entering the game that pretty much instantly soured me on interacting with the community in this game. Either way Ive been enjoying the hell out of the game in Solo mode and playing with the Mobius group, so no great loss for me.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I think some of this could be down to sheer excitement at release, and misunderstanding, but how could a human player have a cobra on the day of release? Did they not get ships reset?

No - there was no reset between Gamma and release. Also, there were pledge tier reward ships in the Kickstarter - there were a couple of Cobra options there.

 

[CMDR Bansidhe]

If it helps any I found it amusing, and my reply about the forum GHB was similarly tongue in cheek.

OH!

I was looking forward to that.

















Disclaimer: No Barfs were harmed during the making of this thread.

 

[Hanzax]

Winning and losing are subjective terms and we each take our victories in different ways. When I'm trading I'll take mine in outthinking or being better prepared than my opponents when opposition is unavoidable. That can be just as simply down to escaping them unharmed because I thought ahead and geared myself up... because I carried enough defenses to make acts of piracy against me extremely hard, kept a careful eye on my radar at all times, or knew when to bow out and find another route when the one I planned on gets too risky. It doesn't actually involve much PvP violence on my part and if it really comes down to that I have a few desperate last ditch options to let fly, or I might accept defeat and hand over some cargo. Occasionally I might end up dead, but I also plan ahead for that and carefully ensure I always have a decent pot of credits to fall back on. I'll feel disappointed when those days come, but every time I leave a pirate standing whilst I hyperspace off into the distance I'll get a nice warm rush of satisfaction, then also feel veeery relaxed and entertained.

That entire experience is a hundred times more meaningful than engaging reams of mindless AI, and yet I don't really think that is PvP in the traditional sense. I think that's an important distinction that needs to be made with Open.

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I'll agree with you on that and I personally don't support the notion it should be forced. On the other hand I also don't support the notion those who do engage in PvP should be villified, insulted and pillored, neither should those who don't want it at all.

This, I assume, is the situation many Pirates and Bounty Hunters find them selves in, it certainly is for me. The idea that pirates are just flying around hunting players to spoil their fun doesn't make much sense imo. There is only so much enjoyment one can get from the murder of another player. Voyeurism is the main word any PvP players has in mind. We want to be put into situations where we have to think and react to succeed. For that reason PvE just isn't sufficient. An avid gamer as myself and others are quick to figure out the most efficient routine for success.

Having an unknown variable of another player hunting you down adds an extra, much needed, mechanic to the game. Having to prepare oneself for human piracy makes Elite: Dangerous that little bit dangerous. I've read countless accounts of traders removing their shield generator in favor of extra cargo space because of the lack of danger. If anything the pirates are adding to the experiance that traders can be put through.

The Pirate life isn't exactly the easiest one either. Bounty Hunters like me are just waiting for a wanted Player to take down, and not just for the money. Both sides are put into a high risk, high reward situation. Mainly one where the pirate gets put into the traders position. The pirates death sets him back far greater than the bounty hunters. This is my opinion, but actually having something to lose puts an extra spark of life into the game. Both parties know they have something to lose if the other player comes out on top which makes victories that much more rewarding.

As far a piracy and griefing is concerned, it's down to one simple question. Did the player committing the "grief" have anything to gain from it, besides finding joy in other players agony? If Yes, then it's not griefing. If No, he's waisting time and effort to grief players.

I guess there's also another question that needs answering. Would you honestly want to be pirated by NPC's for the rest of the games life time knowing that they'll, for the most part, be the same instead of being pirated by a Player where the possibilites are near endless?

In the end, I'd suggest all to play in open play if they desire a more varied gameplay.

 

[Jorlin]

In the end, I'd suggest all to play in open play if they desire a more varied gameplay.

And this might be the ultimate truth.
With a strong emphasis on the little word "if".

 

[Cmdr Effie Trinket]

I have resigned myself to accepting that half the world is utterly mad. I refuse to fence out the half that is, or isn't, because I don't know which half it is that I live in.

 

[Cowboy Bats]

To be fair I believe that there are more than a few that do want that, they just aren't the ones flinging around the coward, carebear, etc pejoratives.

Granted. There have been several who were open to a pvp group where players who want those engagements will be able to find each other. However, on the forum at least, they were outnumbered by the group who were looking for trading ships to prey upon.

I love the coward thing. That just tickles me pink. Courage and it's synonyms and antonyms honestly don't apply to sedentary hobbies such as video games, ever.

 

[Commander Silex]

That's really the point that would be pirates/grifers/and-now-rapists don't get. There is no thrill for the unarmed trader in these scenarios. You could arm yourself, but that's at the expense of cargo space and profit. What is the incentive to give up cargo space and profit, when you can just trade in solo?

Except you don't speak for every player who trades and plays on open. Some enjoy that extra level of consideration for their trade runs, because ultimately Open offers more varied human interaction of all types. I suspect you'll find, for the most part that's the draw. I'm not inventing this either. I have several very good friends who play, are also paying Open and aren't really much for PvP. Obviously they're not horrified at the prospect but they don't expect to be amazing at it, and they don't state it as primary in their list of things to engage in in game. They just enjoy the game more when it might happen.

I'd also like to blow another assumption out of the water. Every one of these people, myself included, played in '84.

 

[Jorlin]

I have resigned myself to accepting that half the world is utterly mad. I refuse to fence out the half that is, or isn't, because I don't know which half it is that I live in.

I want to live in your world
I think 90% of the world is insane...

And then there's me who is even beyond the 90% madness

 

[SirGirard]

In response to the original OP I think most of the points to encourage Open Play are valid. I do however believe it misses one seriously important point and that is that a lot of solo players believe that there is a high proportion of "Open Players" who just like the idea of PvP and blowing other players up, particularly if the other players are easy meat! Of course there will be many denials, but I play both Open and Solo and I am regularly attacked in Open Play by other players when I am trying to go about my lawful business. I run sometimes, fight sometimes but never log off.......but I cannot help but get the feeling that the "Open Play" proponents are just upset that there is not enough players for them to blow up!

It will only be balanced when the consequences for attacking another player, who is clean and going about their lawful business, are seriously difficult....then and only then will you get a lot more people joining us in open play!

 

[Cowboy Bats]

Except you don't speak for every player who trades and plays on open. Some enjoy that extra level of consideration for their trade runs, because ultimately Open offers more varied human interaction of all types. I suspect you'll find, for the most part that's the draw. I'm not inventing this either. I have several very good friends who play, are also paying Open and aren't really much for PvP. Obviously they're not horrified at the prospect but they don't expect to be amazing at it, and they don't state it as primary in their list of things to engage in in game. They just enjoy the game more when it might happen.

Of course I don't speak for everyone. I don't even speak for every player who trades in solo. I do however, remain confident that what I've written is accurate for a majority of players who trade in solo. After an enjoyable experience last night in open, I even plan to start splitting my time bounty hunting in open, and trading in solo. For the life of me, I just can't find a reason why I'd ever trade in open, when I put cargo racks in all of those slots that I'd have to use for weapons and shields in open, and still be the underdog in a fight. Then there is the hauler which is never going to be able defend itself against anything other than another hauler. I believe a mining laser is the only reason it even has a hardpoint.

 

[ksh]

Started open play yesterday. Minding my own business as a virtually penniless Sidewinder noob I got interdicted (first time ever)! My opponent was in a superior ship and we had about a 5 minute dogfight. I figured I was dead meat but my flight sim skills are keen and I managed to ward him off with his tail between his legs (he fled, I didn't follow). Most exciting five minutes I've had in, ... well a while. I'm sold on open.

OTOH, if I had been killed I'd probably be whining instead of gloating and heading back to solo. Go figure.

 

[Commander Silex]

Of course I don't speak for everyone. I don't even speak for every player who trades in solo. I do however, remain confident that what I've written is accurate for a majority of players who trade in solo. After an enjoyable experience last night in open, I even plan to start splitting my time bounty hunting in open, and trading in solo. For the life of me, I just can't find a reason why I'd ever trade in open, when I put cargo racks in all of those slots that I'd have to use for weapons and shields in open, and still be the underdog in a fight. Then there is the hauler which is never going to be able defend itself against anything other than another hauler. I believe a mining laser is the only reason it even has a hardpoint.

I suspect you're probably right about most people trading exclusively in solo, and those who don't get it quite possibly never will and that's absolutely fine. I suppose I'll try to explain, for what it's worth, so you might at least see why someone might enjoy this style of play.

This is the main difference for a trader who enjoys playing solely in Open over playing in Solo or private group. The emotional and personal rewards in succeeding against greater odds and in the face of more meaningful risk outweigh the in game benefits of greater financial reward for the safe road, as that in itself soon becomes a stale and predictable form of gameplay for some players. They could even risk going shields free and maxing out cargo space if they liked, although no doubt the profit would be outweighed by the risk to most, and rightly so.

So considering your other point, if by defend you mean return fire and emerge victorious, you're absolutely right. It's not happening in that hauler. But in my mind defense is equally viable when it exists purely to allow a reasonable and consistent chance of escape without great inconvenience. The efficacy of this route certainly varies for each vessel and without doubt the smaller vessels are the riskiest and most nailbiting of vessels to be going about in as your customsation options are severely hampered. Perhaps this is a fairly good reason for some sort of safe zone around starter systems, or ramped up AI police presence beyond the norm. Anything that would make the inital experience of open a little less brutal for some could be a good thing, in the long run. But in any case for the Open play trader the main goal is not to achieve military victory over their assailant. It is to survive, and for that you don't even need a laser.

 

[Corwyn]

NEWSFLASH! The devs already have your money. They already have mine. There is no subscription model so absolutely no reason to pander to the wishes of either of us. As a commercial entity Frontier will do WHATEVER they think will bring in more revenue. If that is more Solo PVE content then that is what we will get, if PVP/Multiplayer will draw in more wallets than that is the direction they will take. Visions or otherwise. This is a capitalist economy, only money talks.

As much as I agree with part of what you say, David Braben himself, at various conventions, on stage, and very publicly, has stated that they will do what's best for the game and the community. I'm sure money will play a part, but they aren't looking to make a ton of money off ED, they wanted to continue the saga of which it's based on, and share it with the rest of us. It does cost to do so, but they also have other avenues of revenue, so perhaps you're looking down the wrong tunnel as well.

Only time will tell, how they do it, so far, though, they appear to be following exactly as David has stated, and money doesn't appear to be the driving force behind it.

 

[Queebatron]

I've been flying in open but I guess where I am it must be some little-trafficked part of the galaxy (even though I'm only 30-some LY from Sol) and haven't seen a hollow icon on the radar in forever.

 

[Maiakaat]

As much as I agree with part of what you say, David Braben himself, at various conventions, on stage, and very publicly, has stated that they will do what's best for the game and the community. I'm sure money will play a part, but they aren't looking to make a ton of money off ED, they wanted to continue the saga of which it's based on, and share it with the rest of us. It does cost to do so, but they also have other avenues of revenue, so perhaps you're looking down the wrong tunnel as well.

Only time will tell, how they do it, so far, though, they appear to be following exactly as David has stated, and money doesn't appear to be the driving force behind it.

I doubt they are going to use funds from other games to bankroll Elite; and while its clear DB has a strong vision he wont deviate from, he's already had substantial investment to cover Elite, with VC backers (I think), and these are going to want a return.

To think money is not a factor is very naive, they have all those servers to operate and pay for after all, support to pay wages for, developers to pay (they have about 15 new positions opening up) that's a lot of money.

Anyone who has accomplished what he has will know they have a game that could set the company for years if they operate in a way that keeps both their solo/offline customers happy, and satisfies those wanting a social, more dynamic element, whether that is fighting, or just enjoying a world where you form participate as part of a complex community) remember the community doesn't just consist of those wanting a single player/group play game, though it may if they decide this is the vast majority of customers, and those are the ones they are going to focus on. EDIT: Excuse the lack of full stops

 

[mattyboy1509]

Always do.
i come across various players invariably friendly but comms rarely works and they tend to jump away when approached.
By the way I'm also friendly but sometimes nice to say hi occasionally.
Ps what am i doing wrong I've been playing online since alpha and have never been griefed ! Been killed in combat zones once or twice but no .... Never .... Not once ! And i play open all the time.

 

[Chummy62]

I wanted to play in the open. Have been since Beta. Unfortunatley, I have lost my ship and cargo two nights in a row in Lave. Tonight I was one shot by an eagle carrying a weapon that absolutly abliterated my ASP. No chance to use a shield cell, no chance for anything. He intradicted me, got behind me and than blam, I'm staring at the your ship has been destroyed screen. This is not my definition of having fun playing a game. This is being cannon fodder for PVPers. I may switch back after earning a few billion but right now I'm scratching for every credit I can get. The players pirating in Lave have ruined open play for me. I do hope you guys like stroking each other because you are not going to get my cargo any more. And the other nice trick these guys are playing is keeping their fines payed off so the do not show up as wanted. What a Wonderful game mechanic. Make me the wanted player. Klling them is worthless even if I did come back because they are not "Wanted". I'm not going to get made a fool a third time. I've got more important things to do than ferry valuable cargo just so you can steal it.

 

[Jockey79]

No, I am not trolling, nor insulting people by name calling. I simply object to comments such as, "all that ever happens is you get griefed and blown up by players just for giggles, every time you leave a station in Open play". That kind of extreme exaggeration, is unhelpful, misleading and simply plainly false. One has to wonder what motivates some people to portray the game in such a way?!

But you are also doing extreme exaggeration and massive denial of what others are seeing / saying / experiencing.
In the past 48 hours, 4 new threads come up with people talking about having thrusters blown out FOR NO REASON and left to self destruct (no cargo taken, none asked for), yet you keep saying open is perfectly safe and others experiences don't matter, because you say it is safe so it must be safe.

A few of you also seem to ignore that even if there was a mass exodus from solo or private to open, you're not going to see more people as lots will move away - and even though I love how big the game is, in some respects, it is in fact too big. So those who were in solo / private will just spend an hour jumping about until the land somewhere with no traffic - then what? moan to reduce the size of the galaxy? - As you'd still have little to no interaction and end up back at square one.

It was also pointed out, seeing another human is supposed to be rare and a big deal, that has been pointed out and quoted in this thread (and others like it), yet people want to ignore that.

Elite (from what I gather - not old enough for it myself) was about the one player versus the galaxy... that galaxy didn't include other humans, and ED is founded on that. Multiplay is currently a half done tacked on feature and not the premise for the game. And you PvPers need to learn that.

For me personally, I paid for my game - no one else, and I paid to play with my friends not random strangers (and after reading these forums, you don't get much stranger than you lot on here ) so that is how I will play. Screaming, crying, insulting me, telling lies over how "safe it is" or anything else is not going to encourage me to try open. I will promote the Mobius Group in every one of these threads to help build a PvE community (even though I'm not in it)

If I want PvP with random people, I will go play a MOBA - something designed around open and fair PvP. And a lot of those in private groups and solo feel the same, these threads just reinforce it even more.

Unless PvPers want to start a fund where they pay hourly wages I'm never going to touch open (btw, my going rate is £25p/h to be dynamic entertainment for someone else, terms and conditions apply).

But how do you play " with" other players. I never found any quest or whatever to do with several people.
I would really love an opportunity on the bulletinboard where they ask for two cmdrs to transport something.
Or ask an other commander to help transporting because I have insufficient cargospace.
Where do you find these? I can only fly together and do my own jobs. Then there is hardly any need to talk to another. Only say hi.
Does these jobs appear in the private group section?

While social tools are lacking, you can play in a team. I've teamed up with friends to do kill missions, done trade runs with friends (waiting at set points and chatting over what cargo to carry etc.) and even gone pirating with friends.
You just need to learn how to drop in on a friends Low Energy Wake when they drop (or are pulled) from SC.
And for kill missions, who ever has the mission needs the last shot, so stop about 10% and let them finish the target.
Multiplay can be done really easily if you want to do it