Can we drop the "ED is not EVE" moaning?

[Wolf Starslayer]

Based on what Frontier have implemented in this game, Elite is not Eve; no need for "moaning."

Based on some players wanting Elite to be more like Eve, hell no. They can go play Eve and leave Elite to be Elite, thank you very much, and good day!

Mr Braben has already done a full 180' by allowing guilds, guild assets and guild only missions; don't think they'll be much resistance to further guild only content or eventual system ownership.

 

[WR3ND]

Mr Braben has already done a full 180' by allowing guilds, guild assets and guild only missions; don't think they'll be much resistance to further guild only content or eventual system ownership.

There is a clear difference between carrier group ownership and "owning" systems and areas of space, in my mind. Hopefully the latter doesn't happen, and I don't think it's likely to.

 

[charognard]

Making ED with some features from EVE, can only help ED to become a better game guys...

 

[WR3ND]

Making ED with some features from EVE, can only help ED to become a better game guys...

Depends on the specifics, in general I would have to disagree with this statement though.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Mr Braben has already done a full 180' by allowing guilds, guild assets and guild only missions; don't think they'll be much resistance to further guild only content or eventual system ownership.

Given what little we were told about Squadrons at FX'17, to equate speculation regarding what the scope of the Squadron implementation will be with "allowing guilds, guild assets and guild only missions" might possibly be a bit optimistic.

Making ED with some features from EVE, can only help ED to become a better game guys...

That's certainly one opinion - it rather depends on which features.

 

[charognard]

Depends on the specifics, in general I would have to disagree with this statement though.

Concerning all the MP part, i don't see how someone can desagree with this fact. Concerning solo, well, they re not concerned, they're already in solo mode with npcs...

 

[WR3ND]

Concerning all the MP part, i don't see how someone can desagree with this fact. Concerning solo, well, they re not concerned, they're already in solo mode with npcs...

Then certainly not. Open would be much less appealing to me if it were beholden to "guilds."

 

[charognard]

Then certainly not. Open would be much less appealing to me if it were beholden to "guilds."

And why ? Even in EvE little clans make their own life, and you can find a lot of independant players without any need to be hide... Not all clans/ guilds/ squadrons are evil... To be franc, all these features will just help with some solid mechanic what is actually unofficially done by all players groups... It will help to manage our clans, and provide goals to players groups. I can only see benefit, even from (for now) an independant player like me...

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

There is a clear difference between carrier group ownership and "owning" systems and areas of space, in my mind. Hopefully the latter doesn't happen, and I don't think it's likely to.

I bet that this will happen. Squadrons owning systems. It's the logical result of the path FD has taken with squadrons.

Wings, player minor factions, squadrons.

Players always want more. Guilds look like many players wanting the same thing. It's easy for developers to "fall into that trap" thinking that player groups or guilds represent what players of the game want.
It's easier to get some sort of feedback. It creates drama and media coverage. It's just very addictive for developers to listen to guilds and just to guilds.

We already have power-play only rewards.
We will get wings only missions.

How long will it take until there are squadron only missions and rewards?

 

[charognard]

I bet that this will happen. Squadrons owning systems. It's the logical result of the path FD has taken with squadrons.

Wings, player minor factions, squadrons.

Players always want more. Guilds look like many players wanting the same thing. It's easy for developers to "fall into that trap" thinking that player groups or guilds represent what players of the game want.
It's easier to get some sort of feedback. It creates drama and media coverage. It's just very addictive for developers to listen to guilds and just to guilds.

We already have power-play only rewards.
We will get wings only missions.

How long will it take until there are squadron only missions and rewards?

And ? what's wrong about giving content for players groups too ? I'm playing ED since closed beta and waiting this kind of stuff since day 1... Again, ED let you ignore this stuff if you want with different play mods, and, it one of the most important thing to make ED world really alive. Squadron alliances, conflicts, territorial wars, diplomacy, relationship, well, it will add some life in the game and a "RP" life on the forums, for me it's totaly the right way.

 

[joshman72nd]

elite isnt eve while true is really just a statment.

one thing most of players that want guild and only certian factions to have acsess to a base/system is that we all are members of the pilot federation like it or not. (they do need the button though where a player can denounce the pilot federation and play without being connected to them this of course would be hardcore mode since the rebuy of the ship will be 1:1 scale along with a rescue fine and they have to pay docking fees and extra service fees oh and gain influnce at a smaller rate and the combat/trade/exploration rank system no longer works for them and ship prices increase slightly and their is a fee each time they change ship outfit and they pay storage on all extra ships/modules)

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

And ? what's wrong about giving content for players groups too ? …

As long as it is not exclusive and the rewards not only obtainable for members of a guild - nothing. It usually isn't that way.

Giving squadrons control over territory will simply destroy the lore of the game and make all the background stories irrelevant. Removing content from lone players who are interested in the story of Elite.

FD already showed that they absolutely don't care about the lore of Elite if they can please some player group. They give lore relevant systems to player groups. Inject player groups alligned to a superpower into the space of an other superpower.

Step by step they are ruining their own lore.

Squadrons will make this faster and affect everybody.

 

[WR3ND]

And why ? ...

Because I am a lone wolf type player primarily that doesn't want Open further disincentivized to me than what it already is. I don't mind crossing paths with other players, in fact I often rather enjoy it. I however don't want to be at a significant disadvantage to groups of players that for all intents control the game in which I'm playing. That isn't Elite; that's a farce and meta social engineering game, like EVE. No thanks.

 

[Captain N]

Guilds aren't even an EVE specific feature. It's more like a standard feature from every MMO out there. Most of those games don't resemble EVE in the slightest. Most follow the theme park model popularised by WoW which is closer to how ED operates.

The difference between a more freewheeling sandbox MMO like EVE and the restrictive theme park model is mainly in how much power the player groups are given to influence the world.

Buying a carrier where guild members can restock doesn't sound like much power to me.

 

[charognard]

In actual state, since day 1, a lone wolf is disavantaged face any group... Even before wings are in game. It just ad content, it just add life and a real way for players to exist and influence world in a better way then just doing mission for BSG... And in fine, it don't change anything because 90% of players switch in safe mod when they cross the first little danger...

 

[GODofDUTY83]

There are grounds for concerns to be raised. The Elite franchise has always been about you, a lone pilot, making your own way and reputation in a hostile universe.

I for one don't want that to change and do not want it like Eve that effectively forces you to form groups to gain access to services and bases etc.

Been there and done that, and while we were more of a loose association of players with isk who could create our own corporations and alliance to access the content we needed we were still forced to become a group to gain access. I don't want ED going that way.

Enabling guilds I'm not against, if players want to work together under a group identity that's fine and should be allowed. But the day the game gives advantages or services to a group that an individual player cannot access (other than the benefit of increased numbers working together obviously) it creates a situation where it starts to force groups on people.

Obviously allowing a squadron of 1 is all that is needed to not force people down that path. If a carrier is 10 billion then while it would take longer to get a 1 player than 100 it is still an option and a choice. It should also allow that lone player to attempt squadron missions even if they realistically have no chance of completing alone.

But if it removes choice so that options only apply to those who form groups, I think the game will lose something of its core legacy.

We don't have any real details yet so I'm reserving judgement. But while introducing better guild mechanics is a good thing in my opinion, it's a valid fear for lone commanders to question whether they will be excluded from content and advantages unless forced to join a guild.

Could you imagine the transfer cost of the thing for a lone cmdr who, for some strange reason (probably greed) would want to own a fleet carrier.
I get where you're coming from though. I dont want to see gameplay and/or assets being locked out unless I join a group. Options are good.

 

[WR3ND]

In actual state, since day 1, a lone wolf is disavantaged face any group. ...

I agree, but I did say that I don't want it to be further disincentivized (well, minus any typos... ). Fortunately Frontier has for the most part kept this in check and I've managed to get along well enough so far.

 

[JeffRyan]

"ED is not EVE online!"
"Let's not turn this into EVE"
"Oh this is becoming EVE now, I'm out!"

This has been a topic brought up multiple times in the past, but never as often as recently, after FD announced the upcoming player "Squadrons" being able to own what's essentially a mobile base. So essentially a guild system.
A lot of people have long since argued that for long-time players to remain invested, you need to create something for them to care for, to maintain and own. On the other side of the argument, often times more of a reflex than an articulated opinion with reasons behind it, was the "ED is not EVE" movement. And to be perfectly honest I'm sick of hearing the same old complaint to be brought up time and again.

Yes, ED is not EVE. And a guild system won't turn it into EVE either. There's no way for player groups to restrict your movement in Elite. Space is really really big and you can always get to wherever you want. This is in sharp contrast to EVE online, with its less than 10.000 star systems. And here's the thing: Few people are even able to say anything beyond that initial "ED is not EVE" complaint. It's this weird reflex that anything EVE-like is bad, without justification.

Is it the ganking? We already got that here. At least ED has private groups and/or solo, so problem solved.
Is it the toxicity of the community? No game feature will make that better or worse. In fact, I'd argue that a proper C&P system does more to fix that, than a guild system could do to make it worse.
Is it elitism in game events? Well, remember Salome? Remember "all defending ships must be unarmed"? Tell me more about how there isn't already at least some scum and villainy, and how having actual player organisations in the game will make it "bad like EVE"...

No seriously. Stop moaning about Squadrons "turning ED into EVE". It's not.

Or if you think it is, and you have arguments to back up your complaint, bring them up. If they are able to stand on their own, then you probably don't have to mention EVE in the process, as if it was some kind of stigma.

I was probably 'Lead Pitchfork' in the runup to game launch of this sort of thinking. Not a fan of SDC, Harry Potter or anyone else who wants to watch the world burn. But over the last three years and the experience of running my own group (shout out to the Imperium! Yo!) has long-since convinced me that whilst those people are a problem, they're not a big one. They have to resort to publicity stunts and even play the game (killing the first Thargoid) to get fame.

So no, we're not EVE. ED is such a different beast we can't be.

 

[M00ka]

Look, this Squadron this is going to happen, whether you like the idea or not. Already (I can just about guarantee this) the existing groups are already planning what they will do with 'their' ship, even if they don't know a damn thing about it's capabilities or performance.

I would hope that the vast majority of this groups do the right thing but we all know that absolute power corrupts and there will be one or a dozen that get caught up in their new power trip to the determent of everyone else outside of their Squadron.

What I would like to see (forlorn hope here I know) is the FDev through the Admins institute some form of Conduct Code for these Squadrons. Something like if the Squadron is caught extorting or forcing a Non-Squadron member for services like fuel, repair or rearm or caught prohibiting another player from entering a System (i.e. blockading), especially if it is a CG or similar then they lose their Squadron ship. It might be like an Admin induced engine breach or power disruption - but the ship goes BOOOOOM, together with all the player owned ships and everything else stored on the mothership.

 

[JeffRyan]

Look, this Squadron this is going to happen, whether you like the idea or not. Already (I can just about guarantee this) the existing groups are already planning what they will do with 'their' ship, even if they don't know a damn thing about it's capabilities or performance.

I would hope that the vast majority of this groups do the right thing but we all know that absolute power corrupts and there will be one or a dozen that get caught up in their new power trip to the determent of everyone else outside of their Squadron.

What I would like to see (forlorn hope here I know) is the FDev through the Admins institute some form of Conduct Code for these Squadrons. Something like if the Squadron is caught extorting or forcing a Non-Squadron member for services like fuel, repair or rearm or caught prohibiting another player from entering a System (i.e. blockading), especially if it is a CG or similar then they lose their Squadron ship. It might be like an Admin induced engine breach or power disruption - but the ship goes BOOOOOM, together with all the player owned ships and everything else stored on the mothership.

Ha, our ship has been named for about 7 or 8 months before even the megaships made their appearance.