Carnivore AI / Ecosystem Balance

People complain about this and other things with the Dinosaur AI. The issue is that this game was not made with a free roam in mind. It was obviously made for a park setting only. That is why there is no herding or anything like that cause there is no reason for them to herd cause they were never meant to be in large enclosures or free roam. The buildable areas on the islands are kind of limited as well. This is why you see people complaining and comparing this games AI to JPOG. JPOG had the AI it did cause there was a free roam mode called Site B mode. In this game it's not needed cause there is no Site B mode. You actually build a park on Site B in this game.

This doesn't mean it can't change or be fixed. A Dinosaur free roam would be nice. But the whole carnivores chasing down every single herbivore and killing it is annoying. But again it's because they were never meant to be in enclosures with Herbivores. At least not ones they could kill. Part of the management depth of this game is building enclosures to meet the Dinosaurs needs. This means finding out which ones can be placed together, how much space they need and so on.

True... I think we wanna go for big enclosures with many different species in it because space is very limited, so building many medium/large enclosures for sometimes 1 or 2 carnivores is frustrating, using half the map size just to have a few carnivores. It's also very nice to see a rich variety of species together. One factor for me is the feeders. Many enclosures means a load of feeders to resupply all scattered everywhere. I feel they are easier to manage when many of them are in the same enclosure.
But you're right. This game is not about making a wildlife preserve, though I would love that!!
 
I came with plenty of examples of animals killing for fun. I wrote them all down... It's weird I have to repeat myself. Start off by reading my posts before you answer or research yourself... Even normal cats do this.

And a lizard is not an aggressive animal at all. These are theme park monsters made to be aggressive. Huge difference.

And if you introduce a couple of rabbits to a fox with 2 km radius I guarantee you, those rabbits are done. So many examples of especially foxes killing entire herds of chickens without proper cause.

And what does JPOG have to do with this? Because that old game had incorporated an illogical ecosystem doesn't mean JWE has to do it? Weird to think they are copying another game. Why would they? They could just make JPOG2 if this was the case... You could never get an ecosystem of highly aggressive and huge animals to work on the small space we have in this game. Like I stated earlier a Rex would probably need a territory size of 200 kilometers. It wouldn't allow any other carnivores to roam in that area.

I don't think the AI is trash. I'm perfectly fine with it. I wouldn't have cows and lions in the same pen, if I had a regular zoo. The cows would be dead. So why the hell would I mix dinosaurs? LOL

You did not list ONE example of predators killing for fun, all you listed were some examples of animals killing others for reasons other than food responses. You are contradicting yourself constantly in order to fit this narrative that just isn't the case.

Moreover, you still haven't responded to the issue that everyone here has, namely that we should be able to build micro ecosystems to house our dinosaurs without the predators going on a killing rampage. That is where this conversation should have ended.

I will say this again; predators by in large DO NOT kill for fun. They are opportunistic, they have defence mechanisms and they are biologically wired to engage in certain behaviours. What we don't see is the Indominous rex levels of carnage that EVERY predator in JWE shows. There is no logical argument against that.
 
This isn't a new suggestion by any means - it's been mentioned before, and I'm sure it will do again. I do however agree with you, although you'd have to find a clear distinction between why a carnivore would choose a feeder over live food; what would force a Rex to eat a Goat, or from the feeder, rather than attempting to take on (and out) a Triceratops?

There's also a good chance this topic of yours will end up closed and it'll be requested you use the wishlist thread. It's highlighted at the top already...

A T. Rex should always prefer live food. Think about what Dr. Grant says, "T-Rex doesn't want to be fed. He wants to hunt. Can't just suppress 65 million years of gut instinct."
 
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In the JP novel Muldoon mentions how the Rex would go over to the Apatosaur paddock and wiggle it's arms in frustration cause it knew it couldn't get at the herbivores in the paddock next to it. So even in the Lore they didn't bust down the fences probably cause they were electrified, which is realistic. If Dinosaurs had good memory they would remember not to go near the fences. But in this game the electric fences don't really stop them from breaking out.

Also at the end of the day it's just a game.

Indeed it is just a game.

The fence between the paddocks in my example, were standard non-electrified fences, only the outer walls. I wasn't expecting any trouble, whilst he was satisfied, that went as expected, but I was expecting him to become irritated or panicked when losing health for being starving. Then whilst panicked / irritated, I would expect him to wan't out... perhaps even choosing the path of least resistance, which in turn (either way) would have lead to a full stomach, either on delicious herbivores or humans. But, he just sat there and happily died. Chilled out T-Rex.

Now comparing this to a more 'open' plan park, he won't rest until he's eaten everything he can, everywhere. Aggressive Killing Machine T-Rex.

Why such a difference in behaviour just because there is a fence? Not enough grassland / too much forested area sends him into a frenzy and he will happily smash himself into a concrete electrified fence repeatedly for that, but not into a normal one when he's starving to death?

Okay, well I'm cool with that, as it turns out, because I don't usually starve my Dino's but, if such is the case, then I also would expect a more chilled attitude when it's more of an open plan. That's all I'm getting at.
 
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You did not list ONE example of predators killing for fun, all you listed were some examples of animals killing others for reasons other than food responses. You are contradicting yourself constantly in order to fit this narrative that just isn't the case.

Moreover, you still haven't responded to the issue that everyone here has, namely that we should be able to build micro ecosystems to house our dinosaurs without the predators going on a killing rampage. That is where this conversation should have ended.

I will say this again; predators by in large DO NOT kill for fun. They are opportunistic, they have defence mechanisms and they are biologically wired to engage in certain behaviours. What we don't see is the Indominous rex levels of carnage that EVERY predator in JWE shows. There is no logical argument against that.

Cats, regular domesticated house cats kill for sport.
 
Indeed it is just a game.

The fence between the paddocks in my example, were standard non-electrified fences, only the outer walls. I wasn't expecting any trouble, whilst he was satisfied, that went as expected, but I was expecting him to become irritated or panicked when losing health for being starving. Then whilst panicked / irritated, I would expect him to wan't out... perhaps even choosing the path of least resistance, which in turn (either way) would have lead to a full stomach, either on delicious herbivores or humans. But, he just sat there and happily died. Chilled out T-Rex.

Now comparing this to a more 'open' plan park, he won't rest until he's eaten everything he can, everywhere. Aggressive Killing Machine T-Rex.

Why such a difference in behaviour just because there is a fence? Not enough grassland / too much forested area sends him into a frenzy and he will happily smash himself into a concrete electrified fence repeatedly for that, but not into a normal one when he's starving to death?

Okay, well I'm cool with that, as it turns out, because I don't usually starve my Dino's but, if such is the case, then I also would expect a more chilled attitude when it's more of an open plan. That's all I'm getting at.

Probably cause as I said in a post above they never meant for the Rex to share an enclosure with a herbivore it could kill.
 
Indeed it is just a game.

The fence between the paddocks in my example, were standard non-electrified fences, only the outer walls. I wasn't expecting any trouble, whilst he was satisfied, that went as expected, but I was expecting him to become irritated or panicked when losing health for being starving. Then whilst panicked / irritated, I would expect him to wan't out... perhaps even choosing the path of least resistance, which in turn (either way) would have lead to a full stomach, either on delicious herbivores or humans. But, he just sat there and happily died. Chilled out T-Rex.

Now comparing this to a more 'open' plan park, he won't rest until he's eaten everything he can, everywhere. Aggressive Killing Machine T-Rex.

Why such a difference in behaviour just because there is a fence? Not enough grassland / too much forested area sends him into a frenzy and he will happily smash himself into a concrete electrified fence repeatedly for that, but not into a normal one when he's starving to death?

Okay, well I'm cool with that, as it turns out, because I don't usually starve my Dino's but, if such is the case, then I also would expect a more chilled attitude when it's more of an open plan. That's all I'm getting at.

This is far fetched, but maybe he becomes too weak to break out. [haha]
 
You did not list ONE example of predators killing for fun, all you listed were some examples of animals killing others for reasons other than food responses. You are contradicting yourself constantly in order to fit this narrative that just isn't the case.

Moreover, you still haven't responded to the issue that everyone here has, namely that we should be able to build micro ecosystems to house our dinosaurs without the predators going on a killing rampage. That is where this conversation should have ended.

I will say this again; predators by in large DO NOT kill for fun. They are opportunistic, they have defence mechanisms and they are biologically wired to engage in certain behaviours. What we don't see is the Indominous rex levels of carnage that EVERY predator in JWE shows. There is no logical argument against that.

Yes I stated lots of animals killing without the need to eat. How can you decide this isn't in fun? Can you tell when a wild animal is having fun? Can you ask them? It's weird to state something you have no clue about or whether it is right or wrong. I highly doubt it is in "fun". It was just to state, it's not about food concerns. It's most probably to sharpen their hunting behaviour or just territorial aggression, like I ALSO stated earlier. But no one will ever know if they are just doing it for fun, so I'm wondering how you can conclude that... You must be the high and mighty. [haha]

And I stated numerous times, that the island spaces are too small for an ecosystem to work with aggressive animals that are so massive in size. And like other people stated, this games is meant for you to build a park, not let the animals roam free. And animals in captivity are usually highly aggressive unless they've been nurtured from birth. That's why zoo's in real life doesn't mix predators and prey. Makes perfect sense to me...

You can state that the predators may need to rest in between killings to gain energy, but they would still be highly aggressive. The herbivores not being able to defend themselves is the real problem here. Like I ALSO stated.
 
Yes I stated lots of animals killing without the need to eat. How can you decide this isn't in fun? Can you tell when a wild animal is having fun? Can you ask them? It's weird to state something you have no clue about or whether it is right or wrong. I highly doubt it is in "fun". It was just to state, it's not about food concerns. It's most probably to sharpen their hunting behaviour or just territorial aggression, like I ALSO stated earlier. But no one will ever know if they are just doing it for fun, so I'm wondering how you can conclude that... You must be the high and mighty. [haha]

And I stated numerous times, that the island spaces are too small for an ecosystem to work with aggressive animals that are so massive in size. And like other people stated, this games is meant for you to build a park, not let the animals roam free. And animals in captivity are usually highly aggressive unless they've been nurtured from birth. That's why zoo's in real life doesn't mix predators and prey. Makes perfect sense to me...

You can state that the predators may need to rest in between killings to gain energy, but they would still be highly aggressive. The herbivores not being able to defend themselves is the real problem here. Like I ALSO stated.

"I came with plenty of examples of animals killing for fun. I wrote them all down... It's weird I have to repeat myself. Start off by reading my posts before you answer or research yourself... Even normal cats do this."

Sound familiar?

Your argument is so confused. Please just answer this, do you think the carnivore AI is too aggressive and needs to be tweaked? That's all this debate is about.

I'm more than happy to discuss how predators act in the wild, you clearly misunderstand a lot; but that isn't what this post is about.
 
Cats, regular domesticated house cats kill for sport.

Yes, they do. But sport is different from fun. Fun implies that the cat is having a positive emotional response to killing, which we of course cannot know and therefore is not worth debating.

Killing for sport is an evolutionary adaptation, intended to sharpen the cat's hunting skill.

They most certainly don't go on killing rampages however, and THAT is what we are debating here.
 
Yes, they do. But sport is different from fun. Fun implies that the cat is having a positive emotional response to killing, which we of course cannot know and therefore is not worth debating.

Killing for sport is an evolutionary adaptation, intended to sharpen the cat's hunting skill.

They most certainly don't go on killing rampages however, and THAT is what we are debating here.

I agree. Not very often. But I've encountered severel times in my life around 4 or 5 killed birds in the yard by my parents and grandparents cat, just for the hell of it. LOL. If they could catch prey more often (they usually get away on quickness) then I'm sure they would catch and kill stuff all the time. They even play around with half dead animals. Not totally sure it's in fun, but it's some kind of amusement, since they already knocked the animal half out and doesn't want to kill it. This can't be to sharpen hunting behavior. It's totally unnecessary. IMO the AI for the carnivores are fine. The herbivores are totally lacking defense mechanisms though. And the ability to run away...
 
The herbivores are totally lacking defense mechanisms though. And the ability to run away...

Well, there is that, although they do run away, if you can call 10 meters "away".. only to be re-engaged and finished off almost immediately.
The same goes for two carnivores in a fight, they take turns, both drop health (almost equally) to a point where they are both in the red and give up.. they wander 10 meters, then re-engage and take turns again until death.

I also wouldn't mind seeing a strength in numbers type scenario, as is very common in the wild, but then, to accompany that, there would need to be pack hunting and maybe even opportunists.. that would take extra risk, especially when hungry. I do also think the hunger mechanism needs to be attached to the comfort level too, it seems to not be, at all.

The panicked state 'freezing' dino's that need air lifting to resolve, still needs fixing too.
 
First of all Hippo herds protect their young and keep them in the center of the herd, so the crocs can't get to them. There's been multiple videos showing crocs gettin' DESTROYED by hippos because they tried to get to the juveniles or weak ones. Predators doesn't engage in a fight they can't win. Furthermore Hippos are actually way more aggressive than crocs. So it would be suicide for crocs to attack hippos.

And sharks are seaanimals which have no relation at all with dinosaurs, so it's a really weird example to bring up... But when you wanna talk about aquatic animals, dolphins have been proved to kill Porpoise herds for fun. It's not uncommon that a bunch of these animals are washed up on shore and experts concluding they were killed by dolphins for no apparent reason.

Just the fact that you say "surplus killings" doesn't happen in the wild, just shows you know nothing about what you're talking about... You obviously have internet since you're on this forum, so maybe you should look up the term and see the facts before you start talking. LOL. It's a very well known term in the animal kingdom. And I've been around cats all my life and they do surplus killings ALL THE TIME. Killing mice and birds for fun. Wolfs are known to do this pretty often. Kill entire herds of elk and leaving them there...

And maybe you should go watch the documentary about the lions of Sabi Sands... They were 6 lions that KILLED everything even other lions and took over the largest territory ever by lions. They ended up killing each other, that's how their herd ended. They controlled everything in a radius of 267 square kilometres.

And lots of animals can live inside a tiger territory. A tiger is not 100 km wide so it can grap everything inside? LOL. It takes time for a tiger to track down prey. That doesn't mean they don't kill when they come across prey. And yes it's very hard to find a tiger in the wild. Most people that goes on safaris and all that almost never spots one, because of their crazy big territory. They are almost impossible to find. It's not unusual that it takes 10 hours to spot one. Even with experts by your side...

No one ever said the dinosaurs were hybrid. But they are genetically made and will never be like the real animals. They say this in almost all the movies and in the books. That's why they don't have feathers etc. So no these are not animals they are theme park monsters, to quote JP exactly...

Maybe you should research stuff before making yourself look stupid. :)
Hmmm..It seem you don't get my point in here yet. Okay, I'll try it once more.

First, Like i said before.. ' I knew that possible cz adult hippos are more stronger than nile crocs but we are talking about juvenile here and that every herds of animals always have 'the weak one' inside them including hippos.'
Even after they try best to protect it all the time, crocs are still potentially threat to them. So with your argument above, hippos and crocs should live separately but no, they still live side by side because nature have their own law and doesn't have to obey with your stupid law, also for sure, you never seen crocs kill a baby hippos yet before and because you not seeing it yet, it doesn't mean that thing aren't there!

Second, Why not?? Why you can't make sea animals like shark as example for wild behaviors??? Did you know that all life in this world started from the bottom of the sea???, so in someway there is connection between land and sea creature.
and about Dolphin, that's one of example killing for territorial area. Not for food neither for fun.
Like my statement above about territory, 'The purpose are to split area to live and what i mean live here are area to eat, drink, breed, sleep, etc. Although, in some case it work with different species, but mostly work with same species
and for sure, not work with predator and prey relationship!'
Dolphins kill Porpoise because they treat Porpoise as threat to their environment especially for their food source. So get your fact straight!

Third, Now you compare Wild animals with domestic animals??? Really??
Even domesticated animals like cats are not killing for fun. They hunt mice and bird cz they have what i call it 'hunting instinct' on their blood from their ancestor and need to keep it to stay sharp.
Even with home cats, after you provide them with better food so they doesn't really need to hunt anymore but still, sometime they go out to hunt neither because they got bored with you or your pathetic food, but because they have instinct/ nature call to do it.
But mainly, you can't compare wild animals with domesticated animals. Why?? cz domesticated animals act like an hybrid dinos in JP lore. Sometimes they will not work properly like it used to be and this thing are common in domesticated animals.
For example, One of my cat choose to run and hide after some big bad mouse pass in front of him rather than chase and kill it or big dog who afraid with small cat and so on.
So you need to think again about term of 'killing for fun'.

About wolf, i told you that as long as i can tell, i never seen any evidences or reports like that in the wild.

Tigers, LOL! man..im Indonesian (that's one of my excuses for my bad english cz it isn't my native language).
I live in country which had 3 different sub-species of tigers (Sumatran, Javanese, and balinese tiger. Only Sumatran tiger officially remained but personally i think Javanese are still exist too cz so many evidence about their existence in their nature preserve till now and i wish i can tell you the same about Balinese one but sadly, i can't.) and for sure, I have knowledge about them then you had. The territorial area of tigers not always 100 km, it depends on that area itself and how many tigers live inside it because territorial area like i said before, 'Territorial area isn't same with 'comfort zone'. It lot wider in range compare to 'comfort zone'. The purpose are to split area to live. Although, in some case it work with different species, but mostly work with same species and for sure, not work with predator and prey relationship!'
Yes, it take a lot time before you can spot tigers because of their wide range of territorial area but not just because tigers are solitary predator (not like their cousin in Africa) also they need to keep move from one spot to another inside their range to keep it clear from any other tigers (you can call it as a patrol) but for sure you can easy to spot their prey 'inside' their territorial area if it have stable environment (Nature law, Prey always had a big number compare with their predators.).
In other hand, you don't take much time to spot a lion pride after you see African buffalo herd in Tanzania because mostly only male lions and not the whole pride, who do the patrol job on their territory.

Plus, In fact, animals always choose to live in stable environment which had rich water and food supplies to support their needs and number. So in rare case, you can spot zebras and lion side by side drink in same water hole. After the environment can't longer support they need, they will move away to another stable environment. That's why so many herbivore animals (especially in Africa) 'usually' live nomads but carnivore stay in range as long as they could, because carnivore already had their wide range of territorial area but all of this depend on the area itself.

Now you talk about Mapogo Lions, (the coalition of 6 ) Did you ever watch the documentary???
As long as i remember, there is no scene that show that lions kill entire herd of their prey inside their territory. They even not kill entire pride/coalition of other lion who came to challenge them over territory.
They become the largest pride after because they know what had to be done and if as you say ' KILLED everything even other lions and took over the largest territory', it will be impossible for them to become largest pride on Sabi sand if they continuously murder everything on sight.
Now, You got wrong about how their pride/ coalition actually ended.
Their coalition ended NOT because They were kill each other (Where the hell this story coming from??!) but something else. Beside, never call pride lions as herd!
Yes, once they got largest sector of territory but not for long, and yes there was fight between them (the infamous Mr. T with the oldest, Makhulu) which later ended by separated their pride and territory (Mr.T with Pretty Boy and Makhulu with the rest of Mapogo lions) but this is not how their coalition was ended. Their pride ended by other coalition.
And again, you wrong when you said 'They kill everything'. They don't kill everything but almost everything on their menu. there are differences at that terms.
So you need re-watch and think about it before you put it up here and become another false information. ;)

Lastly, No one ever said the dinosaurs were hybrid, huh??
cz i seen it a lot from other threads in this forum who said all dinos in lore are hybrid (example : a lot ppl here think that Spino from movie was hybrid. No, she not!). So you may need to check it up once again.

Now, before you told me that i need to do some research, maybe you are the one that really need to do it and stop make non valid argument and act like you are nature expert cz it seem you know nothing about it. not even the basic.
 
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People complain about this and other things with the Dinosaur AI. The issue is that this game was not made with a free roam in mind. It was obviously made for a park setting only. That is why there is no herding or anything like that cause there is no reason for them to herd cause they were never meant to be in large enclosures or free roam. The buildable areas on the islands are kind of limited as well. This is why you see people complaining and comparing this games AI to JPOG. JPOG had the AI it did cause there was a free roam mode called Site B mode. In this game it's not needed cause there is no Site B mode. You actually build a park on Site B in this game.

This doesn't mean it can't change or be fixed. A Dinosaur free roam would be nice. But the whole carnivores chasing down every single herbivore and killing it is annoying. But again it's because they were never meant to be in enclosures with Herbivores. At least not ones they could kill. Part of the management depth of this game is building enclosures to meet the Dinosaurs needs. This means finding out which ones can be placed together, how much space they need and so on.

Agreed, but herding still important cz it will keep this game on track and it should be applied in one way or another ASAP.
Remember, about Gallimimus valley scene or dead Apato herd scene in JW??
or bunch of dinos herds from Heli view scene and even Dr.Grant mention something about Trike herds behavior in that scene,
or pack of Raptor chase Hadrosauridae herd scene from JP3??
But mostly, remember legendary quote from Dr. Grant?? rite after he saw Brachios and Paras herd in that lake??
 
First, Like i said before.. ' I knew that possible cz adult hippos are more stronger than nile crocs but we are talking about juvenile here and that every herds of animals always have 'the weak one' inside them including hippos.'
Even after they try best to protect it all the time, crocs are still potentially threat to them. So with your argument above, hippos and crocs should live separately but no, they still live side by side because nature have their own law and doesn't have to obey with your stupid law, also for sure, you never seen crocs kill a baby hippos yet before and because you not seeing it yet, it doesn't mean that thing aren't there!

Second, Why not?? Why you can't make sea animals like shark as example for wild behaviors??? Did you know that all life in this world started from the bottom of the sea???, so in someway there is connection between land and sea creature.
and about Dolphin, that's one of example killing for territorial area. Not for food neither for fun.
Like my statement above about territory, 'The purpose are to split area to live and what i mean live here are area to eat, drink, breed, sleep, etc. Although, in some case it work with different species, but mostly work with same species
and for sure, not work with predator and prey relationship!'
Dolphins kill Porpoise because they treat Porpoise as threat to their environment especially for their food source. So get your fact straight!

Third, Now you compare Wild animals with domestic animals??? Really??
Even domesticated animals like cats are not killing for fun. They hunt mice and bird cz they have what i call it 'hunting instinct' on their blood from their ancestor and need to keep it to stay sharp.
Even with home cats, after you provide them with better food so they doesn't really need to hunt anymore but still, sometime they go out to hunt neither because they got bored with you or your pathetic food, but because they have instinct/ nature call to do it.
But mainly, you can't compare wild animals with domesticated animals. Why?? cz domesticated animals act like an hybrid dinos in JP lore. Sometimes they will not work properly like it used to be and this thing are common in domesticated animals.
For example, One of my cat choose to run and hide after some big bad mouse pass in front of him rather than chase and kill it or big dog who afraid with small cat and so on.
So you need to thing again about term of 'killing for fun'.

About wolf, i told you that as long as i can tell, i never seen any evidences or reports like that in the wild.

Tigers, LOL! man..im Indonesian (that's one of my excuses for my bad english cz it isn't my native language).
I live in country which had 3 different sub-species of tigers (Sumatran, Javanese, and balinese tiger. Only Sumatran tiger officially remained but personally i think Javanese are still exist too cz so many evidence about their existence in their nature preserve till now and i wish i can tell you the same about Balinese one but sadly, i can't.) and for sure, I have knowledge about them then you had. The territorial area of tigers not always 100 km, it depends on that area itself and how many tigers live inside it because territorial area like i said before, 'Territorial area isn't same with 'comfort zone'. It lot wider in range compare to 'comfort zone'. The purpose are to split area to live. Although, in some case it work with different species, but mostly work with same species and for sure, not work with predator and prey relationship!'
Yes, it take a lot time before you can spot tigers because of their wide range of territorial area but not just because tigers a solitary predator (not like their cousin in Africa) also they need to keep move from one spot to another inside their range to keep it clear from any other tigers (you can call it as a patrol) and for sure you can easy to spot their prey 'inside' their territorial if it have stable environment (Nature law, Prey always had a big number compare with their predators.).
In other hand, you don't take much time to spot a lion pride after you see African buffalo herd in Tanzania because mostly only male lions and not the whole pride, who do the patrol job on their territory.

Now you talk about Mapogo Lions, (the coalition of 6 ) Did you ever watch the documentary???
As long as i remember, there is no scene that show that lions kill entire herd of their prey inside their territory. They even not kill entire pride/coalition of other lion who came to challenge them over territory.
They become the largest pride after because they know what had to be done and if as you say ' KILLED everything even other lions and took over the largest territory', it will be impossible for them to become largest pride on Sabi sand if they continuously murder everything on sight.
Now, You got wrong about how their pride/ coalition actually ended.
Their coalition ended not because They were kill each other (Where the hell this story coming from??!) but something else. Beside never call pride lions as herd!
Yes, once they got largest sector of territory but not for long, and yes there was fight between them (the infamous Mr. T with the oldest, Makhulu) which later ended by separated their pride and territory (Mr.T with Pretty Boy and Makhulu with the rest of Mapogo lions) but this is not how their coalition was ended. Their pride ended by other coalition.
And again, you wrong when you said 'They kill everything'. They don't kill everything but almost everything on their menu. there are differences at that terms. So you need re-watch and thing about it before you put it up here and become another false information. ;)

Lastly, No one ever said the dinosaurs were hybrid, huh??
cz i seen it a lot from other threads in this forum who said all dinos in lore are hybrid (example : a lot ppl here think that Spino from movie was hybrid. No, she not!). So you may need to check it up once again.

Yes crocs are a threat to baby hippos and that's exactly why adult hippos protect them. So as long as the adults are around, there's no danger to them, because the Hippos will destroy the crocs. So there's no reasons for them to leave even with crocs around. I never set up a law, I'm just saying how nature works.

And no you can't compare sea creatures with land creatures. There's a reason why animals EVOLVED away from water. It's called evolution. It's like comparing a PS1 to a PS4. It's a totally different machine. "While some dolphins and porpoises consume similar types of food such as fish, squid and crustaceans, dolphin species consume a wider diversity of prey than porpoises. This is partially due to the dolphins wider distribution (as a species dolphins have more diversity in food choices) and the preferences of certain foods based on a dolphins species." So why attack them if they don't eat the same? How are they a threat? They are much smaller and are not a threat to dolphins food source or health.

All the dinosaurs in JWE are "domesticated" and has never been in the wild. SO yes they will act out of order and aggressively? That's exactly what I'm trying to say and you just agreed with that statement.
And if you don't call it fun when a cat kills 5 birds and play around with them half dead for no reason and won't eat them, then what is it? Because it's not hunting behavior and has nothing to do with them "sharpening their skills".
I've had around 10 cats in my life and not ONE has been afraid of potential prey. You must have a real cat. haha

And you can just look up the wolfs. Happens very often. Plenty of evidence for you.

And yes predator and prey will not work like you say. And yes Tigers patrol for potential intruders. Like I've also said all the time... And you agree with me on that as well.

And of course I watched the documentary. That's why I brought it up. LOL. They walk around and kill every lion cub for miles and challenged all the males in a 200 km radius. Yes Mr. T was killed by the other lions. They broke his back and left him to die. There's even footage of it in the documentary. Because all of them wanted to be in control, so they killed the leader. "They don't kill everything but almost everything". EXACTLY. They killed without being hungry, like the dinosaurs in JWE.
And the documentary was filmed over a span of 16 years! And they controlled that whole area about half of that. So 8 years are not long?
"This is a powerful documentary about the rise of a Coalition of six lions, branded The Mapogo Lions, and their takeover of the largest territory by a pride. This was filmed over the past 16 years by professionals and amateurs privileged to witness their survival skills. Down the years, rangers and biologists have been astounded by the pride's relentless hunger for domination as they showed no fear in massacring other lions - and their cubs - in order to expand their territory. In just one year, these six killed more than a hundred lions, and conquered an unprecedented amount of land. Their story is one of violence, deception, and thirst for power".

And no I never once said all the dinosaurs were hybrid. Please respond to what I am saying. Not others. No need to drag anyone elses theories into my posts.

But it's weird that you're actually supporting my theory with animals in captivity behaving more out of control, because that's what the dinosaurs are. And you also agree with me, that animals today roam and "patrol" for intruders. And confront them violently. Exactly like the dinosaurs in the game. So you agree with the things I'm saying but still arguing... How am I supposed to take that seriously. [haha]
 
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The AI

I see you all are in some way right, there is lots of factors to take into account that would determine lethal action from a carnivore.
Factors for lethal behaviour:
- Hunger
- Stress (small space/pushed into a corner/crowded)
- Territory (this is based on food/water and breeding opportunities in the area it ”clames”)
- Repopulate/mating
- Instincts (cats hunting smaller prey when it does not need it, because is is full or have access to food for example)
- Agressive behaviour (Rabies or diseases removing self-preservational instincts)

So what we end up with in JPE is that the carnivours sometime acts unreasnable based of the factors mentioned above. Let us break it down!

Hunger - The hunger will cause any animal to find food, if it has steady supply it will opt for that option. The animal will try to preserve as much energy it can (thats why we have Mc Delivery lol), but when the supply is low, desperation will cause animals to try to take on tasks that can cause its death. When you view very hungy lions they can attack bigger and stronger herbivores (elefant, hippo and so on), and or smaller but faster prey (mouses, rabbits) that they have hard time catching cause of the size and acceleration difference.

Stress - Small encloures can definitely cause major stress on the big aninals. Thats why wildlife can coexist together in the wild but have a harder time at the zoo (cause the habitat is too small). But then i JPE the dinosaurs can have full bar on population (should be based on the amount of dinosaurs in the habitat or area of enclosue) and still the carnivors will go on killingspree.

Territory - Most animals claims their territory, that include humans (our home). In most cases the territory is based if the animal can eat and drink enough, and (or) have the oppotunity to mate. When one of the factors can not be met you can see animals moving. This can in turn cause it to invade an other animals territory (or enter a preditors), that can cause an confrontation. I know there is not coded any territoryal instincts into the dinos in JPE (a shame), and it removes a core instinct (one of the reasons they feel so robotic).

Mating - This is some how related to territory but it is a key driver of animal instincts (probably the strongest after self-preservation, can be stronger shown by devoted parents in the animal kingdom). This is not to be seen in JPE, but they add ”Socializing” that most time is needed for mating. We know they are all bred female, but as we know they can change sex. This would be fun to see and that could go as far as baby dinos (who would not want that?)

Instincts - As we can see in JPE the carnivours have a endless apitite for killing stuff, and like some one mentioned it is like heat seeking missile. To add the herbivors are incredibly stupid, and they have zero chanse to dodge/evade (small vs big) or scare (numbers, size, horns) of an attack. This generates no excitement or survival to the game.

Agressive behaviour - So this can be the best reason why we have carnivours acting like they are full tilt rabies animals. They ignore the fundamental behaviours to a degree it becomes obvious they are not acting normal.



To me this game is supposed to be about the dinosaurs, not creating a butiful and unique park, becuse if that were so, there would have been lots more to play with on the creation side (shops, lamps, benches and so on). So when the main focus lacks the core functions the game feels hollow or non-organic.

This is atleast how i see it ;)
 
I see you all are in some way right, there is lots of factors to take into account that would determine lethal action from a carnivore.
Factors for lethal behaviour:
- Hunger
- Stress (small space/pushed into a corner/crowded)
- Territory (this is based on food/water and breeding opportunities in the area it ”clames”)
- Repopulate/mating
- Instincts (cats hunting smaller prey when it does not need it, because is is full or have access to food for example)
- Agressive behaviour (Rabies or diseases removing self-preservational instincts)

So what we end up with in JPE is that the carnivours sometime acts unreasnable based of the factors mentioned above. Let us break it down!

Hunger - The hunger will cause any animal to find food, if it has steady supply it will opt for that option. The animal will try to preserve as much energy it can (thats why we have Mc Delivery lol), but when the supply is low, desperation will cause animals to try to take on tasks that can cause its death. When you view very hungy lions they can attack bigger and stronger herbivores (elefant, hippo and so on), and or smaller but faster prey (mouses, rabbits) that they have hard time catching cause of the size and acceleration difference.

Stress - Small encloures can definitely cause major stress on the big aninals. Thats why wildlife can coexist together in the wild but have a harder time at the zoo (cause the habitat is too small). But then i JPE the dinosaurs can have full bar on population (should be based on the amount of dinosaurs in the habitat or area of enclosue) and still the carnivors will go on killingspree.

Territory - Most animals claims their territory, that include humans (our home). In most cases the territory is based if the animal can eat and drink enough, and (or) have the oppotunity to mate. When one of the factors can not be met you can see animals moving. This can in turn cause it to invade an other animals territory (or enter a preditors), that can cause an confrontation. I know there is not coded any territoryal instincts into the dinos in JPE (a shame), and it removes a core instinct (one of the reasons they feel so robotic).

Mating - This is some how related to territory but it is a key driver of animal instincts (probably the strongest after self-preservation, can be stronger shown by devoted parents in the animal kingdom). This is not to be seen in JPE, but they add ”Socializing” that most time is needed for mating. We know they are all bred female, but as we know they can change sex. This would be fun to see and that could go as far as baby dinos (who would not want that?)

Instincts - As we can see in JPE the carnivours have a endless apitite for killing stuff, and like some one mentioned it is like heat seeking missile. To add the herbivors are incredibly stupid, and they have zero chanse to dodge/evade (small vs big) or scare (numbers, size, horns) of an attack. This generates no excitement or survival to the game.

Agressive behaviour - So this can be the best reason why we have carnivours acting like they are full tilt rabies animals. They ignore the fundamental behaviours to a degree it becomes obvious they are not acting normal.



To me this game is supposed to be about the dinosaurs, not creating a butiful and unique park, becuse if that were so, there would have been lots more to play with on the creation side (shops, lamps, benches and so on). So when the main focus lacks the core functions the game feels hollow or non-organic.

This is atleast how i see it ;)

Couldn't have said it any better myself mate. :D
 
The ref to wolves, sharks, tigers, cats etc. is quite interesting but I think have to remember that the closest approximation we have to dinosaurs are probably birds. There's an article here by the Chicago Exotics Animal Hospital about territorial aggression in birds .. known as Psittacine Aggression, one of the biggest problems going for owners of captive modern day dino-birds.

Although some of the advice in the article won't be practical in JWE, I wonder if anyone has tried doubling down on their 'over-aggressive' mega predators (who are killing too many herbivores) by adding another!

Though it might seem counter-intuitive, Chicago recommends the social aspect as one way of reducing aggression and as most of the predators (with a couple of exceptions) will live socially with one more their own kind (eg. T-Rex will) has anyone tried to experiment in open field paddock - with space for herbivores to move away - by adding another socially compatable predator (same species) to see if social makes the animal more satisfied with the feeder (on average) and less likely to hunt herbivores through possible boredom when solitary?

Obviously you will have twice the number of teeth to deal with but if you can give the herbivores a chance to get away (and if possible choosing herbivores that don't get involved in fight they'll probably lose) I wonder if you really do get 'twice the kills' from twice the number of predators, or if social slows it down?
 
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Something that also comes to mind when thinking about the AI are the death duels between carnivores in JWE. In my opinion it just doesn't make sense that carnivores ALWAYS fight to the death even though one of them is clearly outmatched. Even in JPOG when two giant predators met, they first roared at each other sometimes resulting in one of them fleeing and never trying to fight the other one again. Sometimes they took a few bites until one of them was heavily wounded which again resulted in flight (but survival). Very rarely one carnivore killed the other.

It's outright stupid that a rather small Metriacanthosaurus stays its ground when facing a T-rex that is double its size. One roar from the Rex and the Metri should run for its life. Only equally sized dinos should sometimes fight to the death. A dominance mechanic that does result in carnivores accepting their defeat and fleeing from or avoiding the superior rival would allow us to keep multiple carnivores in one enclosure, for example two T-rexes.
 
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