Sorry, this was a repeated post !
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Carnivorous Space Elves AKA The Guardians
- Thread starter CMDR Dreamstate
- Start date
- Status
All good stuff. Sadly we have very little to go on regarding the link. Personally I subscribe to the "thargoids are Guardian IA evolved" idea - at least in some vague way.
I think the most likely of your three is the last one. There's no record of the Guardians encountering sentient life, and I guess that would be something they'd mention, especially if they fought them (pre-AI rebellion thing, the Guardians didn't really do conflict, they had to learn how during their civil wars), but the Thargoid area of space (we think) is pretty near to the Guardian ruins, so they may well have encountered Guardian tech, as you say.
Here's a thing I've been thinking about.
Barnard's loop is approx 2 million years old (science thinks). That means around the time the Guardians lives, the Loop was possibly just a star.
That means it's not inconceivable that the Loop went Nova during the Guardian lifetime. If you look at the Galactic map there's the potential for a bit of a narrative.
Get your tinfoil hats ready, I realise this is a bit crazy.
This is the map (the core is "north" of this picture. The row of bookmarks you can see is where the Guardian Ruins are. The central marker and bookmark is the heart of the Col 70 sector that's all permit locked off, that bookmark is the system where the Thargoid probes are sending signals to.
You can see the loop there at the bottom of the picture. Just below that you can see a yellow circle I added, that's a very dense nebula sitting behind the loop - that's ALSO permit locked off, just that little bit.
It's always seemed a bit odd to me that the Guardian ruins seem to be in a line or arc (albeit a bit wobbly). That to me looks like the edge of a bubble...
In this image, if you draw a circle so that the edge roughly meets the arc described by the Guardian Ruins, the centre of that circle is roughly in the area of Barnard's loop. Obviously this is all every vague.
If you assume that the Guardians like us expanded approximately in a bubble from their homeworld, then maybe this is the Guardian bubble. The ruins we find are just small frontier colonies, maybe when the war(s) were done, all that really remained were some frontier colonies and as they died off (through lack of support from the core worlds, etc) they buried thier dead, hence the totems and cairns, etc..
That puts Thargoid space inside the Guardian bubble...
It's possible that the Guardian home star was unstable, maybe that's what's alluded to in the references to ecological change. Or (frighteningly) it might have been destroyed during the war. (or none of the above and the Loop star exploded destabilising the Guardians government, or killing off the lat survivors of the war). Or, maybe when the Loop star exploded the Guardian survivors had to heavily modify themselves to live in new environments - Humans were the ones that fled the supernova radiation and set up a new colony on a world far enough away to escape the radiation, Thargoids are the ones that modified themselves radically, forgot who they were and evolved...
Those permit locked systems near the Loop may be the Guardian homeworlds, or like our non-Earth capital worlds (Earth is our ancestral home, but it's only really of historical importance in 3303).
I'm heading loop-ways now to investigate around there, maybe I'll get lucky and find something!
Interestingly, if Guardian space really was this big, you can see that the Thargoid surface bases (the cluster of bookmarks off to the left) are also on the edge of the bubble, and Human space (the bookmarks in the very top-left corner is only just off the edge, like maybe a far-frontier colony perhaps!
Barnard's loop is approx 2 million years old (science thinks). That means around the time the Guardians lives, the Loop was possibly just a star.
That means it's not inconceivable that the Loop went Nova during the Guardian lifetime. If you look at the Galactic map there's the potential for a bit of a narrative.
Get your tinfoil hats ready, I realise this is a bit crazy.
This is the map (the core is "north" of this picture. The row of bookmarks you can see is where the Guardian Ruins are. The central marker and bookmark is the heart of the Col 70 sector that's all permit locked off, that bookmark is the system where the Thargoid probes are sending signals to.
You can see the loop there at the bottom of the picture. Just below that you can see a yellow circle I added, that's a very dense nebula sitting behind the loop - that's ALSO permit locked off, just that little bit.
It's always seemed a bit odd to me that the Guardian ruins seem to be in a line or arc (albeit a bit wobbly). That to me looks like the edge of a bubble...
In this image, if you draw a circle so that the edge roughly meets the arc described by the Guardian Ruins, the centre of that circle is roughly in the area of Barnard's loop. Obviously this is all every vague.
If you assume that the Guardians like us expanded approximately in a bubble from their homeworld, then maybe this is the Guardian bubble. The ruins we find are just small frontier colonies, maybe when the war(s) were done, all that really remained were some frontier colonies and as they died off (through lack of support from the core worlds, etc) they buried thier dead, hence the totems and cairns, etc..
That puts Thargoid space inside the Guardian bubble...
It's possible that the Guardian home star was unstable, maybe that's what's alluded to in the references to ecological change. Or (frighteningly) it might have been destroyed during the war. (or none of the above and the Loop star exploded destabilising the Guardians government, or killing off the lat survivors of the war). Or, maybe when the Loop star exploded the Guardian survivors had to heavily modify themselves to live in new environments - Humans were the ones that fled the supernova radiation and set up a new colony on a world far enough away to escape the radiation, Thargoids are the ones that modified themselves radically, forgot who they were and evolved...
Those permit locked systems near the Loop may be the Guardian homeworlds, or like our non-Earth capital worlds (Earth is our ancestral home, but it's only really of historical importance in 3303).
I'm heading loop-ways now to investigate around there, maybe I'll get lucky and find something!
Interestingly, if Guardian space really was this big, you can see that the Thargoid surface bases (the cluster of bookmarks off to the left) are also on the edge of the bubble, and Human space (the bookmarks in the very top-left corner is only just off the edge, like maybe a far-frontier colony perhaps!
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![[VR] Frank_G](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/59/59394.jpg?1553527111){kind=avatar}
What an information juggernaut this thread is... bookmarked. Coming back now and then to see, read and maybe contribute. Thanks a lot for the work, CMDR Dreamstate! o7
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Guardian Anti-Xeno Back-Engineered Weaponry & Utilities Templates
Weaponry:
- R54-RG Series Mk.II
- Appearance appears to be a Large/Huge Railgun designed for super penetration against alien-type armour resistance. Unlike the smaller R54-RG Mk.I Series cousin, below, the larger R54 variant requires no apparent nozzle push-back method (effectively full rail mode), which will probably result in a further reaching range and higher overall power.
- R54-RG Series Mk.I
- Appearance appears to be a Railgun designed for super penetration against alien-type armour resistance. The smaller variant appears to have the nozzle attached to moveable rods that are themselves attached to the hard-point mounting. When fired, the nozzle should push back under the velocity.
- AX Missile Launcher Series Mk.II
- Medium Anti-Xeno Missile Launcher designed for heavily injuring biological or bio-mechanical aliens. These are best used in conjunction with other manufactured Aegis armaments, such as the R54-RG Series variants or the AX Multi-cannon variants, since the specialised missiles that the AX Missile Launcher fires are not designed with penetration in mind.
- AX Multi-Cannon Series Mk.II
- Medium Anti-Xeno Multi-Cannon designed for nominal penetration against alien weaknesses once they have been exposed by the AX Missile Launcher armament. While they are not very effective against the initial hard armour, the multi-cannon projectiles can cut through exposures - early reports suggest that the AX Multi-Cannon Series performs above expectations when being used in this exploitative manner.
- Unknown Laser Series: AG-0004
- Appearance suggests this is a Small/Medium Pulse Laser designed for reducing xeno-type shielding once a "Heart" has been exposed and destroyed.
- AX Xeno Scanner
- Utility mount designed by Professor Palin in order to accuratly scan alien vessels. It can read and extract some valuable data to be used by commanders at a later date, as well as provide benefits such as finding weaknesses in alien ships, such as "Heart" modules.
- AX "Unknown" Utility
- Leaked from the design labs at Aegis. This utility is still in the process of being designed and no doubt tested. It could be another scanner or it could be point defence, but we will not know until it is ready.
- AX Disabling Pulse Resistor
- Utility mount designed to help prevent an alien ship disabling your vessel with a type of EMP. This ensures that pilots cannot be disabled if they are prepared for it.
Added to main page (OP).
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Ruin (?) find on Trapezium Sector YT-A C9 / A 5 A
I found this thread by searching for mentions of the system name, Trapezium Sector YT-A C9. Apologies if its the wrong thread.
I'm presently sitting on the moon of the Earth-like in YT-A C9, ie "Trapezium Sector YT-A C9 / A 5 A" and while loafing around on the surface in the SRV I thought I heard a signature sound on the wave scanner without any visual signature. Going in that approximate direction I got a faint signature in the upper, "exciting" part of the wave scanner window that didn't match anything on the http://www.wavescanner.net. I tried to close in on it but when it had a width that usually suggest a 2-300m range it disappeared. Continuing further in about the same direction it appeared again, but wide as if at a greater distance. This time I poured on the speed (I wondered if it was a transient phenomena that had ended) and finally found a small area, about the size of the SRV, with what appears to be a very ruined structure without any targetable parts. Current position on Trapezium Sector YT-A C9 / A 5 A is 73.6305 20.7272 . Screenies attached that should show the appearance of the ruin (?), the location, and the wavescanner visual signature.
I'll try "Homo Sapiens Sapiens contact procedure 1A updated" aka "poke it with a stick/shoot at it", and then I'm parking my ship and taking a nap.
CMDR Von Jolb
(Apparently I can't attach pictures, and I'm too tired to mess with image hosting right now, so I put them on my steam page)
View from inside SRV, wave scanner signature, surface coordinates and ruin visible.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1170887824
Ruin from oblique above
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1170891366
I found this thread by searching for mentions of the system name, Trapezium Sector YT-A C9. Apologies if its the wrong thread.
I'm presently sitting on the moon of the Earth-like in YT-A C9, ie "Trapezium Sector YT-A C9 / A 5 A" and while loafing around on the surface in the SRV I thought I heard a signature sound on the wave scanner without any visual signature. Going in that approximate direction I got a faint signature in the upper, "exciting" part of the wave scanner window that didn't match anything on the http://www.wavescanner.net. I tried to close in on it but when it had a width that usually suggest a 2-300m range it disappeared. Continuing further in about the same direction it appeared again, but wide as if at a greater distance. This time I poured on the speed (I wondered if it was a transient phenomena that had ended) and finally found a small area, about the size of the SRV, with what appears to be a very ruined structure without any targetable parts. Current position on Trapezium Sector YT-A C9 / A 5 A is 73.6305 20.7272 . Screenies attached that should show the appearance of the ruin (?), the location, and the wavescanner visual signature.
I'll try "Homo Sapiens Sapiens contact procedure 1A updated" aka "poke it with a stick/shoot at it", and then I'm parking my ship and taking a nap.
CMDR Von Jolb
(Apparently I can't attach pictures, and I'm too tired to mess with image hosting right now, so I put them on my steam page)
View from inside SRV, wave scanner signature, surface coordinates and ruin visible.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1170887824
Ruin from oblique above
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1170891366
Impossible. The human race as we know it is only a couple of millennia old, I think about 50.000-60.000 years. Humans also never changed their position in space since until 3280ish (don't know exactly) interstellar travels were impossible. So: humans were not existing at the time of the events, and humans didn't know anything at all about the most recent events since they were much too far away.
I think that may be a random POI of a destroyed ship or something, but it's missing stuff?? :S
Yes, it's a random POI. I've encountered it several times. It looks like a eroded crashed vessel. The surface texture on the debris is the same as the ones of destroyed vessels in, for example, Degraded Emissions while in Space.
I meant "humans are the remains of the guardians that fled". I'm well aware of our history as a species. And to make it clear, cos I doubt I've said it in this thread, I don't IRL think we're descended from aliens or believe any of that stuff. However, in the universe of ED I think it's possible given the massive similarities between Guardians as described by Ram Tah and humans. I've said before at length that it's massssssssively unlikely that two unrelated species would develop in almost identical ways in almost the exact same part of an otherwise empty galaxy. And since DB has repeatedly stated his dislike for "human aliens" then it's clearly an intentional link.
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Okay, thanks for the clarification
I mentioned it just because the text implied that to me, but now it's clear. I didn't want to accuse you of anything though. I have (not yet) an opinion about the history of humans in the ED Galaxy.
Okay, thanks for the clarification
I didn't want to accuse you of anything though. I have (not yet) an opinion about the history of humans in the ED Galaxy.
It's an interesting question! I suspect the eventual answer might actually be more complex than anyone has yet guessed lol.
Thanks. Sorry for wasting everyones time
CMDR Von Jolb
No time wasted mate, next time it could be the find of a century
if unsure always ask.I think this might be a new thing for you. Fair warning, this is from the FFE Journals, which are not really lore in ED, but...
This is from the part of the storyline that occurs if the player makes peace with the Thargoids and they trade information. I thought these would appeal to you:
ANOTHER SPECIES?
M.C.S
Further details of Thargoid cultural history are coming to light as the co-operative team on the trans-species ship currently sitting North of the Edge are able to communicate in more depth with our newly re-discovered galactic neighbours.
They are, as predicted by Professor Innitu, inherently peaceable although there appears to have been a long history of warfare in the period before the beginning of what it so be renamed the First Trans-Galactic Conflict (previously known as the Thargoid Wars). In an era corresponding to the second millennium and expanding into the early part of the third, the Thargoids were in a constant state of armed conflict.
What is not yet clear from the details made available is whether the war was inter or intra species - that is, whether Tharg was fighting Tharg (Different races? Different Species? Different cultures? Different politics?) for dominance of a small sector of space or whether there was another, unnamed species involved.
IF the latter was the case, then we must ask ourselves the question: do they still exist? If so, how are they? If not, how and why were they destroyed?
COMMON HISTORY OF VIOLENCE
M.C.S
Both sentient Galactic species share, it seems, a common history of violence. The difference is that whereas humanity confined itself to wiping out members of its own species in the hundreds of thousands in the name of religion and progress, the Thargoids wiped out an entire sentient species. The full details of the past are not clear yet. In fact, it is not entirely obvious whether the 'third race' is genuinely extinct or whether they have merely retreated out of range.
The Thargoid's suggestion is that the third race is aggressive in intent, that it is being held back by fear of our joint technology and that it is likely to attack once more when it believes that its own technology has progressed to the point where it would win an all-out Galactic conflict. Their fear is that if the human/android race explores far beyond the current confines of inhabited space (as is likely once alien technology becomes widely available) then we may be at risk of attack and may even provoke a 'third race' attack on our relatively unprotected sector of the Galaxy.
The alien inter-actors have been at pains to point out that they have no wish whatsoever to enter into any further conflict, with ourselves or any other sentient species and they would almost certainly avoid taking part in any such war unless their own home systems was under direct threat. That leaves us in an almost identical position to the one we were in a short time ago: there are sentients out there, we don't know where they are and we don't know what they want, but there's every chance that they will come and get us - sometime. In view of this, we advise that Federal citizens think carefully before travelling outwith the current safe zone.
This is from the part of the storyline that occurs if the player makes peace with the Thargoids and they trade information. I thought these would appeal to you:
ANOTHER SPECIES?
M.C.S
Further details of Thargoid cultural history are coming to light as the co-operative team on the trans-species ship currently sitting North of the Edge are able to communicate in more depth with our newly re-discovered galactic neighbours.
They are, as predicted by Professor Innitu, inherently peaceable although there appears to have been a long history of warfare in the period before the beginning of what it so be renamed the First Trans-Galactic Conflict (previously known as the Thargoid Wars). In an era corresponding to the second millennium and expanding into the early part of the third, the Thargoids were in a constant state of armed conflict.
What is not yet clear from the details made available is whether the war was inter or intra species - that is, whether Tharg was fighting Tharg (Different races? Different Species? Different cultures? Different politics?) for dominance of a small sector of space or whether there was another, unnamed species involved.
IF the latter was the case, then we must ask ourselves the question: do they still exist? If so, how are they? If not, how and why were they destroyed?
COMMON HISTORY OF VIOLENCE
M.C.S
Both sentient Galactic species share, it seems, a common history of violence. The difference is that whereas humanity confined itself to wiping out members of its own species in the hundreds of thousands in the name of religion and progress, the Thargoids wiped out an entire sentient species. The full details of the past are not clear yet. In fact, it is not entirely obvious whether the 'third race' is genuinely extinct or whether they have merely retreated out of range.
The Thargoid's suggestion is that the third race is aggressive in intent, that it is being held back by fear of our joint technology and that it is likely to attack once more when it believes that its own technology has progressed to the point where it would win an all-out Galactic conflict. Their fear is that if the human/android race explores far beyond the current confines of inhabited space (as is likely once alien technology becomes widely available) then we may be at risk of attack and may even provoke a 'third race' attack on our relatively unprotected sector of the Galaxy.
The alien inter-actors have been at pains to point out that they have no wish whatsoever to enter into any further conflict, with ourselves or any other sentient species and they would almost certainly avoid taking part in any such war unless their own home systems was under direct threat. That leaves us in an almost identical position to the one we were in a short time ago: there are sentients out there, we don't know where they are and we don't know what they want, but there's every chance that they will come and get us - sometime. In view of this, we advise that Federal citizens think carefully before travelling outwith the current safe zone.
Would really suck if Frontier decided to keep this bit in and the Guardians were actually the agressors. It'd be fine story, but dang it I like the Guardians.
This is highly enlightening! Thank you!
I no doubt suspect there is something in this... While Frontier may have or will slightly retcon some of the details (that they were in constant conflict from the 2nd to 3rd milleniums), this does read as suspiciously eerie.
The Guardians are carnivorous, it was in their nature to hunt, so it could be that the Thargoids misinterpreted general hunting for "Warmongering" - if indeed the Thargoids are a seperate species (which is looking all the more likely) and are not the AI creations of the Guardians (which many assumed, me counted, could be that the Guardians are the backstory for the origins of the Thargoids).
However, the second subject "Common History of Violence" you could say is supported slightly by Ram Tah's lore - there was some sort of "foe" or "adversary" that a few Guardians knew the language of... that in turn plays on the rumour that a few humans have also had limited contact with Thargoids...
If we are to believe more of the details in the second log (CHoV), then it appears the Thargoids are indeed worried about the Guardians returning... and that would make sense, given that they destroy anyone carrying Guardian Ancient Relics and their wrecked motherships purge their galaxy chambers if they (Ancient Relics) are plugged in (while sounding like they are screaming in anger or sheer terror)... They are absolutely petrified(?) of them, and for good reason: Guardian weapons technology and capability can totally rek them if brought to bear on them in full power.
You know what this could mean?
The Guardians could still be alive - they may not be extinct (possibly further supported by Sandro Samarco at Lavecon 2017: "We aren't done with the Guardians yet, not by a long shot").
They were caught off-guard at a time of weakness, and then, possibly during the final days of the second civil war, potentially re-united when pressed by the growing Thargoid threat that may have taken advantage of them after they fought one another in two civil wars (the Guardians did have the means to kill them, the Thargoids, so it would make sense for the Thargoids to try to wipe them out if they, the Guardians, are paralyzed by a civil war or two)... if it is one thing the Guardians would be good at, though, it is giving everything up to save each other from an external threat - hence their name as Ram Tah suggests. It is a racially evolved trait that seperates them a little more from humans - whereas we humans have waged thousands if not hundreds of thousands of wars against one another while the Gaurdians war record stands at a grand total of 3 (not counting one on one tribalism combat):
1) The "Unification" War (where the northern ethnicity dominated the homeworld that led to the advancement of the modern era)
2) The First Civil War (Homeworld)
3) The Second Civil War (Intergalactic/Bubble)
Given the choice of extinction or to survive, run, and come back another day to take the fight to the Thargoids, both the Exiles/Sympathisers and religious Zealots could have put their differences aside - they abandoned everything and disapeared far from the realm of the insectoids... and this may also explain why their history is so suddenly cut short, leading Ram Tah to suspect their extinction. Perhaps no one was around to continue writing their history - perhaps they were in such dire straights, they really had to leave in a hurry or face obliteration.
From the recent discovery of the INRA bases, it is increasingly looking like Frontier have not abandoned the old lore entirely, especially with the recent new book by Drew speaking of Thargoid factions (though I believe more evidence is needed to prove there are two factions and not disinformation), so of this lore mentioning the Thargoids concern of the return of the "Third" sentient species, it is well and truly possible it is refering to the Guardians...
Because, even in our lore now, we know of three species that are sentient - Humans, Guardians (extinct?), Thargoids (AI?). (Of course, there could now be a fourth - AI).
I'm looking forward to more Guardian lore... these old Frontier logs are a real eye opener...
edit; Considering the war record for a moment...
In terms of threat level, it could be guaged like this, to us;
First place: Humanity
Second place: Guardians
Third place: Thargoids
To the Thargoids, however, at this present time (until we develop more serious weapons they hate):
First place: Guardians
Second place: Humanity
Third: Thargoids
However, we do not truly know how many wars the Thargoids have waged, so their threat level is really "Unknown"... We do know they did attack us during the first Thargoid war (so that would bring the Thargoid war count up to 1 from 0 - and yes, we don't know if they count that as a war, so it's just a human interpretation) - what isn't clear is who attacked who first.
If we are to believe the old lore(?), the Thargoids attacked a human colony first.
In terms of aggression (against another species, not each other), then, it could be this:
First place: Humanity
Second place: Thargoids
Third place: Guardians
I wonder if the Thargoids had scant clashes against the Guardians - lost a lot of ships to poweful weaponry, knew they were outmatched, then waited it out and avoided them (until they could gain an advantage).
Could the Thargoids, being insectoid, have a need to dominate space? Could they truly be aggressors? Could the Guardians, with only 3 wars throughout their entire history, be the "warmongers" the Thargoids paint them to be, if indeed that is the third sentient race they are describing in the old Frontier Journal entries?
Much to ponder...
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That sounds pretty good. It's also worth considering that, (if we assume that everything we know so far is correct for the sake of discussion) that we significantly weakened the Thargoids with the Mycoid, it might be that the Guardians (or whatever they have now become) has reasoned that this is a good time to return.
Could it be, that "the return", didn't mean (just) the Thargoids...? Since the previous release was "the Guardians", which basically consisted of (apparently) just some dry ruins and one mission from an engineer, that seems a bit lacking for the main title of a release, so maybe there's a lot more there that we didn't find?
Also consider, in my post a while ago I was looking at the long string of Guardians sites and speculating that it might be the edge of a bubble. What if, instead of that, it's a FIREWALL between the Thargoids (col70 area) and the Guardians, maybe a string of monitoring stations or something, designed to detect if Thargoids expanded past that area. It's a bit speculative since 3D space would allow them to go over or under it, but it does cut off the most direct routs, and maybe when it was built a million years ago Thargoids Hyperdrive was significantly worse (like our old one could only jump 7ly).
Assume the Guardian bubble is actually somewhere else entirely, and that might also explain why there's apparently just some (nearly identical) ruins on airless rocks. They're not bases, they're just monitoring installations. We don't know that the names given to the objects there are accurate - OR - maybe it's like some groups on Earth will make totems around "bad" areas and use grave goods to decorate them (skulls and bones), sort of a warning and/or religious meaning to keep the bad in/out of an area.
I believe there's been a few permit locked areas on the other side of the galaxy discovered? There's some big bits of space locked off, big enough for a bubble much larger than ours.
(don't think this is entirely accurate, but it's just as an illustration)
In Reclamation, Rebecca (the old explorer) comments about the Rift, saying "And they thought the Thargoids were trouble..."
This has opened up a whole new realm of speculation around all the strange things we're seeing happening with the Thargoids.
EDIT: Here's a thing to consider. In some of my posts on the big Aliens thread I've speculated that Humanity might be being manipulated by the Thargoids (since that would explain a few things that don't otherwise make sense). What if, we've been infiltrated by the "third race" and they are using us to provoke war with the Thargoids?
Consider the Rift logs (from 3270's):
https://canonn.science/codex/formidine-rift-alpha-site/
https://canonn.science/codex/formidine-rift-beta-site/
https://canonn.science/codex/formidine-rift-delta-site/
They talk about "things" in Witchspace (one of them mentions "the lights in witchspace are coming for me", It's been noted that since 2.4 new lights have been seen in Witchspace... Might entirely be space-madness, but I always thought a lot of this sounds not-too-dissimilar from Thargoid interactions (EMP to disable ships, hyperdictions, etc.) but that would mean the Thargoids were out that way 30+ years ago, which doesn't entirely fit with what we know, but what if that's this "Third Race"?
There's also President Halsey who went a bit mad after her hyperdrive accident and started talking about things that seems similar to some of the things in these logs. And there's the odd little stories of explorers coming back with different personalities, I had speculated that it might be some sort of Thargoids infiltration - but again, might be "the Third Race"
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That's a pretty darn good bit of speculating!
You're right about Rebecca saying that... maybe the Guardians are truly out for hurt? Or perhaps, at least out to get revenge on the Thargoids...?
This talk of listening stations reminds me of a thought I had regarding one of Ram Tah's entries about biology again - involving Brain Trees found all over space near us, Regor, and Col 70:
Ram Tah; Tech 17: "This data gives details of the Guardians research into computer technologies. The Guardians' computer hardware operated on the same principles as our own. Their engineering was more sophisticated, but even to a layperson such as myself if it (sic) comprehensible. They experimented with organic computers, but ultimately these failed to meet expectations, except in a few areas such as bio-monitoring. Even then, genetically modified organisms usually performed better."
Could the Brain Trees really be early warning outposts for "Bio-Monitoring"?
Guardian First Contact in the Formadine Rift?
Hawking's Gap
Delta Mission: The trip and deployment of "artefacts" by "handling bods", who aren't the ship's crew, went without any problems. Crew presumed to have gotten home safely…
https://canonn.science/codex/hawkins-gap-delta-site/
Gamma Mission: Crew had no idea who paid them for the mission "credits are credits". Beacons were dropped off and setup by the crew, though one of the Beacons they deployed accidentally switched on and "started squawking some weird code before it got switched off. We were told we hadn’t heard anything." No other problems aside from inside job "accidents" on the ship to presumably shut people up from talking. Crew presumed to have gotten home safely…
https://canonn.science/codex/hawkins-gap-gamma-site/
Beta Mission: Captain went missing for weeks. Unknown cargo was dropped off without any problems - again, some third-party security was aboard to prevent anyone seeing what the cargo was. Crew presumed to have gotten home safely…
https://canonn.science/codex/hawkins-gap-beta-site/
Alpha Mission: Cargo "looks like satellites" - again, very well guarded from the crew. Mission goes according to plan without any odd problems cropping up. However, it seems communication of the Formadine Rift fleet's demise has swiftly turned into ghost stories for those in the Hawking's Gap fleet.
https://canonn.science/codex/hawkins-gap-alpha-site/
The Conflux
Delta Mission: Crew was prepared with extra FSD parts for a long haul. They seemed to have run into problems by trying to jump while in the presence of a neutron star, and burned out their FSD beyond what their repairs could manage.
https://canonn.science/codex/conflux-delta-site/
Gamma Mission: Mission went without a hitch. Crew behaved, asked no questions, and dropped off the beacons they needed to.
https://canonn.science/codex/conflux-gamma-site/
Beta Mission: Mission went according to plan as the logs don't display any distress. There were odd sightings of lights in the Witch-space clouds, and then of lights following the ship, but the crew inevitably cannot explain what they saw. Note: could have been initially Thargoids following them if that is the case, since the earlier logs seem to mention interdiction in Witch-space.
https://canonn.science/codex/conflux-beta-site/
Alpha Mission: Crew made safe passage to their destination without any problems. No problems mentioned with any third-party security. Long range beacons were dropped off at earth-like worlds.
https://canonn.science/codex/conflux-alpha-site/
Formadine Rift Hypothesis
Please Note before reading the main article, below: I have been informed it was much older jump drive technology being used on the ships by CMDR Moribus, so whenever I mention FSD (Frame-Shift Drive) in this article, below, what I am referring to is actually the Class 2B Hyperdrive and Stardreamer technology Jump Drives - these take weeks or months of travelling in Witch-space to reach a destination; (see qoute)
[Start of Formadine Rift Hypothesis]
Both the Conflux and Hawking's Gap had a much easier time than that of the ships that headed toward the Formadine Rift. In fact, no vessels that travelled to the Formadine Rift survived; it seems, from the logs acquired.
The Hawking's Gap fleet and that of the Conflux could have been sent after the Formadine Rift expedition ended in complete disaster in the loss of all ships - or; if communication via long-range wasn't a problem, then someone leaked information that quickly swirled into rumours, in which those rumours quickly spread to the other two fleets heading in different directions.
Either way, one thing is for certain: the Formadine Rift was a complete disaster, and as such a lot of it is permit locked by the Pilots Federation.
When large areas of the Conflux and Hawking's Gap aren't treated this way with permit restricted regions, it can only mean one thing: something is out in the Formadine Rift, and I don't think it is the Thargoids.
And now I bring you these chilling tidbits...
Frequent FSD Malfunctions, Strange Signals, Power Outages, Space Madness, Sirens, Voices...
Out of three of the fleets in the Formadine Rift, two of them experienced consistent problems with their FSDs – one was completely destroyed and was little more than a debris field, and the other abandoned – both right next to Earth-like worlds.
This immediately raises suspicion. The human ships could have inadvertently alerted someone to their presence by setting up the probes and turning them on – especially next to these Earth-like worlds.
I hypothesize that those Earth-like worlds could be harboring Guardians.
What supports this, you wonder?
In the Alpha Mission (https://canonn.science/codex/formidine-rift-alpha-site/), one of the crew describes a “Siren song”, with the urge to join them. Whilst this could be space madness, Ram Tah does highlight that the music of the Guardians are more like songs because they lacked musical instruments:
Biology 15) “A human observer might find the Guardians' visual art severe and lacking in emotion, but the same could not be said of their music. They didn't use musical instruments, so strictly speaking it's singing, although I think they might have used their bodies for rhythm and percussion. I've extracted audio from the data you have collected and have listened to, for want of a better term, their “songs”. The range of their voices is something to be admired. And it's so rich with emotion – many pieces are so haunting, it breaks the heart to listen them.”
And in this entry, below:
Language 6) “This data packet indicates that the guardians used two different forms of communication with the same - or at the very least similar - language constructs, its slow but fascinating work, using this data I believe I can establish a rudimentary understanding of the oldest two forms - verbal communication. Like us, they had a vocal language, and the range of sounds appears to be similar to that used in human vocalisation.”
The same crewman in the Alpha Mission did describe that he or she thought they had heard some “weird voices” whilst travelling through Witch-space. They couldn’t understand the weird voices that they thought they had heard, but they could tell it was intelligible to them to ascertain the voices as a language, even if they didn’t understand it – and this is important.
Thargoids do not share the vocalization of a human (if anything, we’d think their noises sound like Whales to the human ear), but Ram Tah’s logs does indeed support that the Guardians did have a similar vocal range to us – therefore, could it be entirely possible that the crew did hear Guardian communications whiel traversing through Witch-space?
The crewman described, a bit later, that it was a “siren song”, and that they “are calling to me”. This may not have been the intent on the Guardians part (if it is indeed the Guardians), and not Space Madness – it may be that they picked up on a faster than light signal from somewhere whilst on their journey through Witch-space.
A siren’s song is described in ancient folklore as beautiful to some, yet haunting to others, and is used as a weapon by these mythical creatures to attract sailors to their ultimate doom crashing against the rocks. Ram Tah himself described the Guardians’ songs as rich with emotion, with many pieces very haunting, and it broke his heart to listen to them – their songs, especially so many of them, triggered his emotions very easily – personally, it would take a considerably beautiful, heart-felt song to get me to that point.
Now, what would the Guardian songs do to a crew who had been growing paranoid with every passing month because of rumours or weird Witch-space phenomena out in complete darkness with hardly any stars?
It would have the potential to make one of them, or all of them, snap.
This ship seemingly never made it, despite the FSD working better than the other two expeditions. It is likely they were near a hidden Guardian bubble, but weren’t close enough to an Earth-like unlike the other two missions, Beta and Delta.
During the Beta Mission (https://canonn.science/codex/formidine-rift-beta-site/), the crew described “a signal” that caught all of them off-guard and generated much concern. Over a month later after hearing this unknown signal, the tried to hyper-jump, but were immediately forced back into real-space. After almost a month trying to repair the FSD, they had to give up and decided to leave for a nearby Earth-like world…
Could it be possible that the ship itself was hacked by this signal? Yes, and it could explain the sudden FSD malfunction that destroyed their only means of leaving the same system with the Earth-like present. It is also entirely possible that the Earth-like they stumbled upon was also inhabited…
This is, potentially, growing evidence that whatever is in the Formadine Rift is blatantly trying to prevent the knowledge of their existence from getting out.
One way to do this would be to sabotage a space-faring vessel’s FSD via a signal source – and once the crew had gotten too close to one of the Guardians’’ Earth-like worlds, they would have prevented them from escaping.
Could the Beta Mission crew have made First Contact upon settling on this Earth-like, which, by the way, was conveniently scrubbed from the records right at the end of the logs. This, I don’t think, was interfered with by anything human; since it is more likely a human would have deleted all log entries, especially if they worked under the shadowy Dynasty Project.
The third and final entry that we have from the Formadine Rift is the Delta Mission (https://canonn.science/codex/formidine-rift-delta-site/).
For the most part, there was nothing unusual – no odd signals noted by the crew, nor any FSD power failures unlike the previous two.
However, unlike the other two, the Sidewinder and the “Support Ship” (Megaship? Since Anacondas cannot launch Sidewinders), experienced repeated power outages.
During a routine operation (dropping off a beacon), the Support Ship was seemingly destroyed, and all that was left was a debris field. It took the Sidewinder pilot three weeks to get over the trauma before the next entry in the log was written…
Several things may have happened to the Support Ship; it could have suffered a catastrophic failure of some kind, or it could have been an inside job – or, even more disturbing, an extra-terrestrial attack.
We can only speculate at this point, though it is more likely to be an inside job, since the Zurara Megaship had personnel aboard that took drugs to turn them into psychopaths to ensure no survivors - and they ensured they destroyed the main reactor to complete their mission.
It could be possible that, due to the unique nature of the Delta Mission, that the power outages were part of a larger problem unforeseen by the crew. If the “Support Ship” had a similar undercover crew of secret agents working against them during their mission, just like the Megaship Zurara, then destroying the main reactor while the ship was experiencing power failures from an external source could have caused the ship to explode accidentally, thus leaving a debris field.
I say external source, because both the Sidewinder and Support Ship during the Delta Mission experienced the same power outages multiple times over the course of two months – even when the Sidewinder was on an away mission.
Just like the Beta Mission, the human vessels were in the vicinity of an Earth-like…
With all these co-incidences, I strongly suspect that the Guardians may have made First Contact with the human survivors of these missions into the Formadine Rift – if they do indeed still exist and are not some other extra-terrestrial.
It could make sense, however…
The star density in the Formadine Rift is extremely limited compared to other areas in the galaxy. Out of the three expeditions, the Formadine Rift is the most black and barren – it is secluded extremely well, and to reach any Earth-like worlds would take an extremely good jump drive to make those trips.
If the Guardians still do exist, then perhaps, like us, they needed a backup plan, too. If that is the case, then it is funny how both the Humans and Guardians would see the Formadine Rift as an excellent hiding ground on the edge of the galaxy in the event of the Thargoids over-running our home world space.
If this is the case, then perhaps the Thargoids jump capability is restricted to much shorter jumps than that of what truly mechanical technology can achieve… Could this be why, if the Guardians do now live in the Formadine Rift, that they chose that region of space, because the space between stars is just too great for the Thargoids to make with their bio-mechanical technology?
For now, I can only walk away with this conclusion…
The Guardians could later become known as “The Sirens” – aptly named for their haunting and highly emotional songs...
Hawking's Gap
Delta Mission: The trip and deployment of "artefacts" by "handling bods", who aren't the ship's crew, went without any problems. Crew presumed to have gotten home safely…
https://canonn.science/codex/hawkins-gap-delta-site/
Gamma Mission: Crew had no idea who paid them for the mission "credits are credits". Beacons were dropped off and setup by the crew, though one of the Beacons they deployed accidentally switched on and "started squawking some weird code before it got switched off. We were told we hadn’t heard anything." No other problems aside from inside job "accidents" on the ship to presumably shut people up from talking. Crew presumed to have gotten home safely…
https://canonn.science/codex/hawkins-gap-gamma-site/
Beta Mission: Captain went missing for weeks. Unknown cargo was dropped off without any problems - again, some third-party security was aboard to prevent anyone seeing what the cargo was. Crew presumed to have gotten home safely…
https://canonn.science/codex/hawkins-gap-beta-site/
Alpha Mission: Cargo "looks like satellites" - again, very well guarded from the crew. Mission goes according to plan without any odd problems cropping up. However, it seems communication of the Formadine Rift fleet's demise has swiftly turned into ghost stories for those in the Hawking's Gap fleet.
https://canonn.science/codex/hawkins-gap-alpha-site/
The Conflux
Delta Mission: Crew was prepared with extra FSD parts for a long haul. They seemed to have run into problems by trying to jump while in the presence of a neutron star, and burned out their FSD beyond what their repairs could manage.
https://canonn.science/codex/conflux-delta-site/
Gamma Mission: Mission went without a hitch. Crew behaved, asked no questions, and dropped off the beacons they needed to.
https://canonn.science/codex/conflux-gamma-site/
Beta Mission: Mission went according to plan as the logs don't display any distress. There were odd sightings of lights in the Witch-space clouds, and then of lights following the ship, but the crew inevitably cannot explain what they saw. Note: could have been initially Thargoids following them if that is the case, since the earlier logs seem to mention interdiction in Witch-space.
https://canonn.science/codex/conflux-beta-site/
Alpha Mission: Crew made safe passage to their destination without any problems. No problems mentioned with any third-party security. Long range beacons were dropped off at earth-like worlds.
https://canonn.science/codex/conflux-alpha-site/
Formadine Rift Hypothesis
Please Note before reading the main article, below: I have been informed it was much older jump drive technology being used on the ships by CMDR Moribus, so whenever I mention FSD (Frame-Shift Drive) in this article, below, what I am referring to is actually the Class 2B Hyperdrive and Stardreamer technology Jump Drives - these take weeks or months of travelling in Witch-space to reach a destination; (see qoute)
[Start of Formadine Rift Hypothesis]
Both the Conflux and Hawking's Gap had a much easier time than that of the ships that headed toward the Formadine Rift. In fact, no vessels that travelled to the Formadine Rift survived; it seems, from the logs acquired.
The Hawking's Gap fleet and that of the Conflux could have been sent after the Formadine Rift expedition ended in complete disaster in the loss of all ships - or; if communication via long-range wasn't a problem, then someone leaked information that quickly swirled into rumours, in which those rumours quickly spread to the other two fleets heading in different directions.
Either way, one thing is for certain: the Formadine Rift was a complete disaster, and as such a lot of it is permit locked by the Pilots Federation.
When large areas of the Conflux and Hawking's Gap aren't treated this way with permit restricted regions, it can only mean one thing: something is out in the Formadine Rift, and I don't think it is the Thargoids.
And now I bring you these chilling tidbits...
Frequent FSD Malfunctions, Strange Signals, Power Outages, Space Madness, Sirens, Voices...
Out of three of the fleets in the Formadine Rift, two of them experienced consistent problems with their FSDs – one was completely destroyed and was little more than a debris field, and the other abandoned – both right next to Earth-like worlds.
This immediately raises suspicion. The human ships could have inadvertently alerted someone to their presence by setting up the probes and turning them on – especially next to these Earth-like worlds.
I hypothesize that those Earth-like worlds could be harboring Guardians.
What supports this, you wonder?
In the Alpha Mission (https://canonn.science/codex/formidine-rift-alpha-site/), one of the crew describes a “Siren song”, with the urge to join them. Whilst this could be space madness, Ram Tah does highlight that the music of the Guardians are more like songs because they lacked musical instruments:
Biology 15) “A human observer might find the Guardians' visual art severe and lacking in emotion, but the same could not be said of their music. They didn't use musical instruments, so strictly speaking it's singing, although I think they might have used their bodies for rhythm and percussion. I've extracted audio from the data you have collected and have listened to, for want of a better term, their “songs”. The range of their voices is something to be admired. And it's so rich with emotion – many pieces are so haunting, it breaks the heart to listen them.”
And in this entry, below:
Language 6) “This data packet indicates that the guardians used two different forms of communication with the same - or at the very least similar - language constructs, its slow but fascinating work, using this data I believe I can establish a rudimentary understanding of the oldest two forms - verbal communication. Like us, they had a vocal language, and the range of sounds appears to be similar to that used in human vocalisation.”
The same crewman in the Alpha Mission did describe that he or she thought they had heard some “weird voices” whilst travelling through Witch-space. They couldn’t understand the weird voices that they thought they had heard, but they could tell it was intelligible to them to ascertain the voices as a language, even if they didn’t understand it – and this is important.
Thargoids do not share the vocalization of a human (if anything, we’d think their noises sound like Whales to the human ear), but Ram Tah’s logs does indeed support that the Guardians did have a similar vocal range to us – therefore, could it be entirely possible that the crew did hear Guardian communications whiel traversing through Witch-space?
The crewman described, a bit later, that it was a “siren song”, and that they “are calling to me”. This may not have been the intent on the Guardians part (if it is indeed the Guardians), and not Space Madness – it may be that they picked up on a faster than light signal from somewhere whilst on their journey through Witch-space.
A siren’s song is described in ancient folklore as beautiful to some, yet haunting to others, and is used as a weapon by these mythical creatures to attract sailors to their ultimate doom crashing against the rocks. Ram Tah himself described the Guardians’ songs as rich with emotion, with many pieces very haunting, and it broke his heart to listen to them – their songs, especially so many of them, triggered his emotions very easily – personally, it would take a considerably beautiful, heart-felt song to get me to that point.
Now, what would the Guardian songs do to a crew who had been growing paranoid with every passing month because of rumours or weird Witch-space phenomena out in complete darkness with hardly any stars?
It would have the potential to make one of them, or all of them, snap.
This ship seemingly never made it, despite the FSD working better than the other two expeditions. It is likely they were near a hidden Guardian bubble, but weren’t close enough to an Earth-like unlike the other two missions, Beta and Delta.
During the Beta Mission (https://canonn.science/codex/formidine-rift-beta-site/), the crew described “a signal” that caught all of them off-guard and generated much concern. Over a month later after hearing this unknown signal, the tried to hyper-jump, but were immediately forced back into real-space. After almost a month trying to repair the FSD, they had to give up and decided to leave for a nearby Earth-like world…
Could it be possible that the ship itself was hacked by this signal? Yes, and it could explain the sudden FSD malfunction that destroyed their only means of leaving the same system with the Earth-like present. It is also entirely possible that the Earth-like they stumbled upon was also inhabited…
This is, potentially, growing evidence that whatever is in the Formadine Rift is blatantly trying to prevent the knowledge of their existence from getting out.
One way to do this would be to sabotage a space-faring vessel’s FSD via a signal source – and once the crew had gotten too close to one of the Guardians’’ Earth-like worlds, they would have prevented them from escaping.
Could the Beta Mission crew have made First Contact upon settling on this Earth-like, which, by the way, was conveniently scrubbed from the records right at the end of the logs. This, I don’t think, was interfered with by anything human; since it is more likely a human would have deleted all log entries, especially if they worked under the shadowy Dynasty Project.
The third and final entry that we have from the Formadine Rift is the Delta Mission (https://canonn.science/codex/formidine-rift-delta-site/).
For the most part, there was nothing unusual – no odd signals noted by the crew, nor any FSD power failures unlike the previous two.
However, unlike the other two, the Sidewinder and the “Support Ship” (Megaship? Since Anacondas cannot launch Sidewinders), experienced repeated power outages.
During a routine operation (dropping off a beacon), the Support Ship was seemingly destroyed, and all that was left was a debris field. It took the Sidewinder pilot three weeks to get over the trauma before the next entry in the log was written…
Several things may have happened to the Support Ship; it could have suffered a catastrophic failure of some kind, or it could have been an inside job – or, even more disturbing, an extra-terrestrial attack.
We can only speculate at this point, though it is more likely to be an inside job, since the Zurara Megaship had personnel aboard that took drugs to turn them into psychopaths to ensure no survivors - and they ensured they destroyed the main reactor to complete their mission.
It could be possible that, due to the unique nature of the Delta Mission, that the power outages were part of a larger problem unforeseen by the crew. If the “Support Ship” had a similar undercover crew of secret agents working against them during their mission, just like the Megaship Zurara, then destroying the main reactor while the ship was experiencing power failures from an external source could have caused the ship to explode accidentally, thus leaving a debris field.
I say external source, because both the Sidewinder and Support Ship during the Delta Mission experienced the same power outages multiple times over the course of two months – even when the Sidewinder was on an away mission.
Just like the Beta Mission, the human vessels were in the vicinity of an Earth-like…
With all these co-incidences, I strongly suspect that the Guardians may have made First Contact with the human survivors of these missions into the Formadine Rift – if they do indeed still exist and are not some other extra-terrestrial.
It could make sense, however…
The star density in the Formadine Rift is extremely limited compared to other areas in the galaxy. Out of the three expeditions, the Formadine Rift is the most black and barren – it is secluded extremely well, and to reach any Earth-like worlds would take an extremely good jump drive to make those trips.
If the Guardians still do exist, then perhaps, like us, they needed a backup plan, too. If that is the case, then it is funny how both the Humans and Guardians would see the Formadine Rift as an excellent hiding ground on the edge of the galaxy in the event of the Thargoids over-running our home world space.
If this is the case, then perhaps the Thargoids jump capability is restricted to much shorter jumps than that of what truly mechanical technology can achieve… Could this be why, if the Guardians do now live in the Formadine Rift, that they chose that region of space, because the space between stars is just too great for the Thargoids to make with their bio-mechanical technology?
For now, I can only walk away with this conclusion…
The Guardians could later become known as “The Sirens” – aptly named for their haunting and highly emotional songs...
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