Carnivorous Space Elves AKA The Guardians

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From this we can gather that they might even be like hairless birds with razor sharp beak-like forearms. No mention is made of their heads.

And there is far cry from "upright" to "humanoid". We don't even know if they are bilaterally symmetric, they could be upright ctenaphores for all we know. Let alone with a human like heads or even discernible faces.

One thing we do know... that Braben himself has promised that Aliens will be truly alien. Which means probably no "space elves".

for all we know this is what the "red" ones look like:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/73/fb/54/73fb543d1f1812ea9cfd38e911a771c4.jpg

Or perhaps like this:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6b/d0/26/6bd0265fdb944a71c11a1320ece15e70.jpg

The point being that it may be a bit early to be drawing them in humanoid bikinis.

Oh no, no, no, no!
I much prefer CMDR Dreamstates sketches to yours and I for one would really like to bump into one of them one day. I can see as a race, they would be almost impervious to falling flat on their face and should they ever fall over then they would just bounce right back up again.
 
Finally found a quote by Braben on aliens, although he was replying to someone who asked about the Thargoids: http://www.theaveragegamer.com/2014/07/08/david-braben-wants-thargoids-terrifying-elite-dangerous/

Quote: "I do hope. I think they [Thargoids] are great fun. I don’t like it when Star Trek with the stick on ears and stick on foreheads just annoyed me because they are all basically humanoids. In fact, all basically American humanoids. I think if you are going to have an alien make them alien. For me they do that. That’s why I want them to be as terrifying and as alien as we can make them."

The Thargoids will be truly "alien", like what everyone wants :) and they did a good job making the alien ships look the part (bio-mechanical monstrosities that they are).

The Guardians could be another alien race entirely, separate from the Thargoids (although I hypothesize that the Guardians are the Thargoids makers, before possibly turning on the Guardians themselves through extermination, but we'll just have to wait and see) - an alien race that is more like us, although we probably won't see them in the game, like, ever -- it is probably suiting exposition before the Thargoids hit full-time (the Guardian lore).

Would be amazing, though, if they did pop up in the future. :)
 
From the given information, the only things we can really assume is that 1) they're bipedal, 2) they have arm-like appendages, 3) they have small mouths. I'd add that they probably have forward facing eyes, since they're apparently capable of vision and predators usually have forward facing eyes. Per the whole mammalian vs. reptilian stuff, why would you assume they evolved the same phylogenetic classes as Earth? They aren't gonna be "space elves".
 
Just a few evolutionary notes from our own heritage. If you go back and look at our most distant identifiable ancestors, which are the earliest fish, they didn't have a lot of structures we take for granted today. For example, their mouth didn't have a jaw or teeth. Those were things that evolved later on. Jaws and later ears were evolved via modification of some of the gill arches. Limbs and fingers came from fins.

The point of bringing this up is that we can't assume that, even if they are broadly humanoid, that they have similar body structures to us. Obviously they can see and hear and manipulate tools and it sounds like they have internal fertilisation, but they may do all these things ways with a totally different arrangement of sensory organs and appendages to us. Since they come from a separate genesis of life their body systems pretty much have to have a fundamentally different architecture, even if they perform similar functions to ours.
 
Just a few evolutionary notes from our own heritage. If you go back and look at our most distant identifiable ancestors, which are the earliest fish, they didn't have a lot of structures we take for granted today. For example, their mouth didn't have a jaw or teeth. Those were things that evolved later on. Jaws and later ears were evolved via modification of some of the gill arches. Limbs and fingers came from fins.
That's true, but the reason the jaw has been wildly successful in practically all chordata is because it enables such a wide variety of other behaviours. That would be the impetus towards convergent evolution. Bilateral symmetry is another good example for terrestrial species. Sure, cnidarians and other organisms exhibit symmetries greater than two, but from molluscs to arthropods to jogging primates, bilateral symmetry works, in a multitude of environments. Again, that would be an argument in support of a convergent view of evolution.

The point of bringing this up is that we can't assume that, even if they are broadly humanoid, that they have similar body structures to us. Obviously they can see and hear and manipulate tools and it sounds like they have internal fertilisation, but they may do all these things ways with a totally different arrangement of sensory organs and appendages to us. Since they come from a separate genesis of life their body systems pretty much have to have a fundamentally different architecture, even if they perform similar functions to ours.
With a sample size of 1 it's impossible to generalise. However, given that Tah expressed surprise at how similar they are to humans, I'd be inclined to infer that this is the remarkable point. He didn't say "wow, those doodz had crazy willy-hands and eyes on their kneecaps," did he?

That said, Tah also neglected to mention that the females of the species had back problems, so I think some aspects of the design might have to be... *ahem* scaled back somewhat.
 
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Carnivorous Space Elves AKA The Guardians​

Before you skip, because others did: the Lore discovered in the ruins points at the Guardians being humanoid (not reptilian or insectoid) - please read your lore before you start reading this thread, by reading the evidence first: LINK

Before I start: I posted this in the main Canonn thread, but it was being over-run with posts on the ruins - therefore, since this is a lengthy thread, I thought it would be fine as a stand-alone.

Other contributions I have posted: check out my post on the ruins being an Interstellar Temple, HERE. (In light of new evidence in the ruins about religion, I may not have been far off).

START OF THIS POST:

After reading through the lore gathered so far (here: link), I expect everyone is wondering what the Guardians may have looked like. I set about doing some designs, though you'll have to forgive me as it is done on paper - and I only had my 4yr old daughter's pencils and crayons on hand to work with :D (I have Photoshop, but no art tablet to draw with *sad times*).

However, this did not deter me!

I took into account the facts now known in the Lore, and expanded on some aspects slightly by using evolutionary theory as a potential base to work from.

These are the facts I used as a base:

1) "It is also interesting to note the genetic break that occurred at the time of the north-south split, with the appearance of a redder skin in the members of the northern clan, suggesting a racial element of division."

2) "Politicians were the first to react to this new concept of social landscape, but very quickly, the resistance to the technological revolution took a religious turn."

3) "The relationship between the audio data and the constructs used, namely the written form, proves to be very complicated… it would seem that their spoken language had a tonal form, similar to certain human languages, which means that the meaning of a word was determined by the manner in which it was pronounced."

4) "The written form of the Guardians’ language is based on glyphs, each glyph representing a word. Glyphs seem to be able to be associated to describe complex concepts, while the integration of movements can also be used to add additional meaning."

5) "Some details about the physical appearance of the Guardians and the fact that the species had two distinct sexes. There did not seem to be taboos about sex because this database is full of images and recordings … just like some of our data networks!"

6) "This data contains more details about the Guardian’s sexual behaviour and reproduction. Their body form encouraged sex while standing, but although this was the most comfortable pose, they entertained a variety of positions. I’ve concluded that sex was a recreational behaviour and not only for procreation. They didn’t use birth control as they could manipulate their bodies to become temporarily sterile at will, although Ram has not yet identified the precise mechanism for this. It’s clear their biological-manipulation technology was quite sophisticated. This data has huge applications for Medical treatments if we can unlock the secret."

7) "New details on procreation and reproduction with the Guardians. Procreation was a matter of personal choice, although they were obliged to be parents at least once in their existence to ensure the survival of their species. It seems that the gestation period was long enough to allow sufficient development of the newborn before birth. Indeed, the children were frail for a certain period after their birth."

8) "Regarding the education of children. The community had the responsibility to take care of the little ones. Newborns were placed in communal crèches instead of staying with their parents. Pre-natal care included genetic manipulation to remove all hereditary diseases and other complications."

9) "Recordings on their foods: The Guardians are carnivorous, since they used to hunt in a pack. Their forearms are not only sharpened to kill their prey, but also to cut their meat into pieces more suited to their small mouth."

10) "Rules of decorum relating to hunting. The need to kill has always been preserved, despite the evolution of their society. The food killed during a hunting game was considered a refined dish. For the guests, it was an honor to give a prey hunted to their host, but it was customary for the latter to do the same. The food that had been hunted by a single person was even more valuable. It had to be done without a weapon. Weapons were only used in the context of civil protection or law enforcement."

11) "Given the physical similarities between us and them, I’m amazed at the cultural and societal differences and the speed at which they rose to become part of their lives."

Alas, here is my sketch:


And here is my very first sketch, if the southern tribe had a green pigment (a bit like the UAs):


Here are some plain sketches of the red Guardian:




My Thoughts & Reasons​

So, they are humanoid - they have sharp for-arms - have many physical similarities.

I decided to go with pointed ears as, like on earth, cats and other carnivorous mammals have pointed ears (improved hearing while on the hunt and for danger senses) - given this fact, I would assume the Guardians to also have finer senses (pointed ears), given that they are carnivorous humanoids that still retained their hunting method, despite evolving to the point of space travel. I would argue that because they kept this practice, they would retain these more animal-like features.

Like humans, they would probably be slightly more frail than other animals in the animal kingdom, but they evolved larger brains (probably larger than a humans). As such, I did not expand too much on the head, but if the eyes were smaller, it would (the cranium) appear much bigger.

On the design of the eyes, I reasoned they would have two, like a human (depth perception is a mark of hunters), but their pupils may in fact be more like a snake or a cat - one could argue this would give them much better sight advantages and, considering they kept their hunting instincts over the course of evolution, it could be a sound hypothesis. I also made them much larger than a humans' eyes (three times larger) - part of this reason is to differentiate them from humans slightly, and the other is that larger eyes are much better for, potentially, low-light vision.

The mouth is not much bigger than a human's, in my opinion. In the animal kingdom on earth, humans do have "small" mouths when comparing them to other species on the planet relative to their size. As such, I saw no reason to give the Guardians in the drawing anything smaller than a human's.

Being carnivorous, their teeth will be slightly sharp and pointed - looking at the evidence of carnivores on earth, most carnivores don't use their teeth to chew - but to kill and shred meat. The Guardians used their sharp for-arms in order to do this, so their teeth may not have evolved to the point of shredding, like a cat, for example. Therefore, I drew small pointed teeth - they would appear like modern-day human "vampires" if they were to open their mouths. Their digestive system would probably be more alkaline in nature, like the carnivores on earth, with smaller intestinal tracts as a result. The Guardians may have swallowed strips of meat whole after shredding it (no chewing), and they may do, what carnivores do on earth, drink the blood of their kills as a source of liquid/water.

The "bones" of the models in the drawings are more angular, as to create a distinction between the Guardians and humans - and may even be another reason as to their obsession with geometric shapes. As such, I drew their jaw-lines and cheek bones as slightly more rigid and angular, like a triangle. This is easier to see "face-on" in the second picture with the green Guardian - the face down to the hips are very sharp and angular to promote some semblance of difference.

The hands are potentially more rigid and angular, perhaps longer - they may have had claws in place of finger nails, though this has yet to be discovered. What we do know is that they had "sharp" forearms. Therefore, I did two versions. On the green Guardian, I drew two small bony ridges - one for stabbing, one for cutting. I wasn't too sure about that version, so on the second version (red Guardian), I drew a single, much larger and curved bony implement coming out of the forearm. It would be sharp at the bottom, at the top, pointed, and thick in the middle - it would also be curved, like a tooth, to serrate the wounds of the pray they hunted. This shape would therefore be devastating and strong - it's like having a sabre cat's two large fangs strapped to your arms as weapons with which to pierce, serrate and slice.

When it comes to the female form of a Guardian, I deliberately chose to draw naturally large "chests" - the reason for this is actually a cultural one. As it states in the lore, the Guardians duties are to their responsibilities in the various tribes. Because of this, parents who breed have their off-spring, but then leave them at communal creches (as it states in the lore) - so who is going to feed the babies full time? The Guardian's nurses, of course - and, considering their culture prefers to go along the "natural" route, they would forgo, potentially, the technology of feeding through milk supplements (powdered milk). Therefore, if it is your duty in the tribe to feed and rear kids, you'll need the assets to do it (if this is the case, I seriously feel sorry for those nurses - but the lore is what it is).

The only thing I cannot suitably explain is the red skin (and what it was before - I chose green simply because of the Unknown Artefacts). Therefore, the Guardians may not be the development of mammals, but could be more reptilian - so the colour may actually be from very small, fine scales than actual skin. However, the lore states "skin" not "scales", so they are probably mammalian.

I also added in some little easter eggs on the clothing.

If anyone is a much better artist and has the utilities to do much better on these designs, please feel free!

Anyone else got any sketches to show?

Masters of Cybernetics and Genetics

As we have read so far, the Guardians loved to integrate their technology (eventually) into their own culture. This meant that each person was connected to the Interstellar Network (no longer the Internet or www. more like Interstellar Web) and could communicate to either their neighbours next door or indeed to some friend or relative that is 120 light years away (much like Galnet). Such a network would need many, many hubs - and I believe the "Ancient Ruins" or "Interstellar Temple" (depending how you want to look at it), could have both served as a religious sanctuary and as an Interstellar Comms Booster to secure the network over the vast light years.

The Guardians turned to religious routes later on, however, because of this communications explosion and that of faster-than-light travel through Witchspace.

It appears that rather than worshiping "Gods" of fabled legend or other aliens, they appear, from the evidence at the ruins, to have worshiped the very AI they created as a millennia passed. By this point, the Guardians were masters, apparently, of cybernetics - not too dissimilar to the fictional animation Ghost in the Shell:


However, it would appear that the Guardians, once they had developed AI and began to integrate themselves with it, that they were either dependent on the AI systems or worshiped the Interstellar Network as a "God" or "Paradise" (however, until we know more, we can only speculate).

Now, with the recent explosion of sightings of the "Thargoid" ships, I do wonder if the Thargoids themselves were an Artificial Intelligence created by the Guardians. They do appear to be "insect-like" and this has led many people to believe that the Thargoids are insects, yet they are also mechanical-looking, or are, at the very least, described as being Bio-Mechanical.

I would hypothesize that the Thargoids are creations of the Guardians - it is a long stretch, I agree, but from what we seen in previous Elite games, perhaps this is the new direction Frontier want to take us.

Considering the Guardians had a natural affinity with the environment, and they were not shy about using genetics to wipe out illnesses (probably various cancers) during pregnancy with advanced medical knowledge, while integrating subtle technology as they further evolved (to become one with the AI), it would not be a stretch to consider they also applied this mode of thought to their AI creations - as in, Bio-Mechanical creations that respected the environments on any world.

If they had both mastered genetics, space travel, and cybernetics, then perhaps they created ships that suited their culture.

But what of the Guardians now?

Well, as we have seen in many movies now, ranging from Terminator to Battlestar Galactica, perhaps the AI Thargoids decided that their creators had outlived their purpose?

And if any Guardians still survive today? Perhaps they have been the ones inside the ships hyperdicting commanders, scanning us, in their breathable gel environments.

Could they still be on the run from their creations, hiding in Witchspace? Or could they already be a long dead species...

I hope we find out...

Someone sure likes Outsider a lot...
outsider019.jpg

Me personally, I like your idea, although I would throw in a bit of poison ivy into the mix :)
 
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Just a few evolutionary notes from our own heritage. If you go back and look at our most distant identifiable ancestors, which are the earliest fish, they didn't have a lot of structures we take for granted today. For example, their mouth didn't have a jaw or teeth. Those were things that evolved later on. Jaws and later ears were evolved via modification of some of the gill arches. Limbs and fingers came from fins.

The point of bringing this up is that we can't assume that, even if they are broadly humanoid, that they have similar body structures to us. Obviously they can see and hear and manipulate tools and it sounds like they have internal fertilisation, but they may do all these things ways with a totally different arrangement of sensory organs and appendages to us. Since they come from a separate genesis of life their body systems pretty much have to have a fundamentally different architecture, even if they perform similar functions to ours.


I do not believe we actually know much at all about 'the genesis' of life beyond amino acids that form under certain conditions. Less is known about what drives mutation and evolution that appears to be intelligently driven.

For all we know life in general could be more familiar than not.
 
Finally found a quote by Braben on aliens, although he was replying to someone who asked about the Thargoids: http://www.theaveragegamer.com/2014/07/08/david-braben-wants-thargoids-terrifying-elite-dangerous/

Quote: "I do hope. I think they [Thargoids] are great fun. I don’t like it when Star Trek with the stick on ears and stick on foreheads just annoyed me because they are all basically humanoids. In fact, all basically American humanoids. I think if you are going to have an alien make them alien. For me they do that. That’s why I want them to be as terrifying and as alien as we can make them."

The Thargoids will be truly "alien", like what everyone wants :) and they did a good job making the alien ships look the part (bio-mechanical monstrosities that they are).

The Guardians could be another alien race entirely, separate from the Thargoids (although I hypothesize that the Guardians are the Thargoids makers, before possibly turning on the Guardians themselves through extermination, but we'll just have to wait and see) - an alien race that is more like us, although we probably won't see them in the game, like, ever -- it is probably suiting exposition before the Thargoids hit full-time (the Guardian lore).

Would be amazing, though, if they did pop up in the future. :)

Well there is what we want and there is what is. It sounds like you are inserting the [Thargoids] into that quote, and also that you are inserting your personal desired for human like qualities onto the Guardians.

Braben seems to appreciate the a more unattached approach. One where aliens are NOT humans with bumpy foreheads and pointy ears. But instead are something more appropriate to the worlds they evolved on, which is likely wholy unlike anything that we would consider habitable. Besides anything that can "sharpen their forearms" isn't going to be something you can cuddle and breed with.

While I appreciate your drawings, they are not exactly scientific. Perhaps you should take a look at the pre-cambrian period on earth just to see how alien known life can be. Then you may get an appreciation for exactly how divergent life on other worlds is likely to be. And this is just the early history of our own little hospitable ELW:

06.36B_Odontogriphus-small.jpg


6cd1baab4fbdb2c12bb0dab07703c9ee.jpg


5d20601d2f8f948f5a5f80056fa782d1.jpg


4ef9d96873ce4061431d6da649b50bfc.jpg


I10-27-opabinia.jpg


4593939.jpg


%D0%BF%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B8%D1%8F-%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0-3004490.jpeg


06.37B_Wiwaxia_reconstruction-small.jpg


Which bizarre life forms might become dominant on another wholly different planet with a completely different history? Very likely something that is yet another step different from us than we are from these bizarre creatures above that actually share our basic form of DNA.
 
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Haha ;)

Well, the lore did add "but they also entertained other positions". I mean, most humans lie down or get on their hands and knees - and we know this is because of personal preference

No, it's because of a lack of imagination and an unwillingness to try anything too far outside the "norm". [haha] :D
 
That's true, but the reason the jaw has been wildly successful in practically all chordata is because it enables such a wide variety of other behaviours. That would be the impetus towards convergent evolution. Bilateral symmetry is another good example for terrestrial species. Sure, cnidarians and other organisms exhibit symmetries greater than two, but from molluscs to arthropods to jogging primates, bilateral symmetry works, in a multitude of environments. Again, that would be an argument in support of a convergent view of evolution.

With a sample size of 1 it's impossible to generalise. However, given that Tah expressed surprise at how similar they are to humans, I'd be inclined to infer that this is the remarkable point. He didn't say "wow, those doodz had crazy willy-hands and eyes on their kneecaps," did he?

That said, Tah also neglected to mention that the females of the species had back problems, so I think some aspects of the design might have to be... *ahem* scaled back somewhat.

Very good points :D

You never know, the Guardians may have stronger spines ;)

Perhaps from a physiological stand-point, that would make evolutionary sense, since they would need, perhaps, some form of kinetic motion to thrust their forearms at prey? :D
 
Sorry, but this is pretty ridiculous. Elves with small mouths and pointy teeth? NO. Not even close. And huge bazoombas? Lol! Dude, it's like you drew your adolescent fantasy elf from Everquest or something. They're super advanced, super intelligent, scary as %*#^ carnivorous ALIENS with forearm claws dude. If I had to I think I'd imagine them as closer to the aliens in the movie Signs, but the truth is we can't even begin to imagine what they'd look like and probably shouldn't try!!
 
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Well there is what we want and there is what is. It sounds like you are inserting the [Thargoids] into that quote, and also that you are inserting your personal desired for human like qualities onto the Guardians.

Braben seems to appreciate the a more unattached approach. One where aliens are NOT humans with bumpy foreheads and pointy ears. But instead are something more appropriate to the worlds they evolved on, which is likely wholy unlike anything that we would consider habitable. Besides anything that can "sharpen their forearms" isn't going to be something you can cuddle and breed with.

While I appreciate your drawings, they are not exactly scientific. Perhaps you should take a look at the pre-cambrian period on earth just to see how alien known life can be. Then you may get an appreciation for exactly how divergent life on other worlds is likely to be. And this is just the early history of our own little hospitable ELW:

http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/files/2013/02/06.36B_Odontogriphus-small.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6c/d1/ba/6cd1baab4fbdb2c12bb0dab07703c9ee.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5d/20/60/5d20601d2f8f948f5a5f80056fa782d1.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/4e/f9/d9/4ef9d96873ce4061431d6da649b50bfc.jpg

https://universe-review.ca/I10-27-opabinia.jpg

https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/4593939.jpg

http://img0.reactor.cc/pics/post/палеонтология-песочница-3004490.jpeg

http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/files/2013/02/06.37B_Wiwaxia_reconstruction-small.jpg

Which bizarre life forms might become dominant on another wholly different planet with a completely different history? Very likely something that is yet another step different from us than we are from these bizarre creatures above that actually share our basic form of DNA.

Actually I didn't add the [Thargoids] bit :p though if you did bother to check the link, you'd see the gaming website who asked the question added that in to remind the readers what Braben was referring to when he replied. This is why I have been sourcing materials, but I'm amazed people still don't bother going to the effort of looking for themselves. But of course, your next reply will be "I only said sound, not that I said you did add it yourself", so I'll save you the time and add that bit myself :p

Now on to my actual reply lol

I don't know what Braben is planning (and he certainly isn't the ONLY architect behind the game - the guy will have a team, and that team may very well rule against him - he will be surrounded by clever folk), but from what he said in that interview segment, he has gotten what he wants - something truly alien. The Guardians, as I said previously, are probably just exposition (the plot / lore) behind the Thargoids themselves (so what they look like etc, may not even be that important to Frontier, but they will chuck in nuggets of info about what the Guardians may have looked like themselves just for the hell of it), and was more than likely a humanoid society that is now long extinct (probably through war with their own creations). Yes, alien life forms, even on earth, can take a multitude of forms - we all know this, but we don't need it shoved down our throats. We get it mate, it ain't alien unless "aliens" :D

Despite the improbability that something is not likely to be the same because of it being a different environment, there is an equal possibility that something can be similar in another environment.

And that is the crux of the matter here (whether or not for or against) - the Guardians are very different if you look closely, despite being humanoid - they are very alien when compared to human beings.

They developed a sophisticated language that only Ram Tah can barely translate. Their culture was built on Pack mentality, which means the way they lived and the laws they lived by was within the boundaries of the Pack. They preferred naturalism over industry, despite inventing some form of cybernetics later on in their evolution. They developed and favored biological weapons (either in the form of Thargoids, chemical agents, or both) - something abhorred by the majority of humanity. They practically built "rail-guns" so big that they could launch Generation Ships into space without the need of rocket fuel - those structures would have been massive, but more than likely bio-mechanical, too. They later on worshiped the AI and the "internet" or "Interstellar Network" (however you want to spin it), and this led on to religion very much different than our own. They stuck to city-states, and never formed boundaries or "countries" like humans did (and because of this, it is likely they never had a Star Empire or "bubble space" like what humans have done).

The points I'm trying to raise here is that an alien species that is very alien doesn't need to "look" very alien - sometimes the entire culture and history of a species can be the thing that sets them apart from us and them as being "truly" alien.
 
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