General / Off-Topic Cecil the Lion

[Ziljan]

To the OP. Try to imagine how you would feel about a toddler being tossed into a gladiators pit with a sexual predator, who finished the deed by smiling over the baby's corpse for a photograph. That is how animal activist feel about humans hunting defenseless animals for sport.

A billion years of survival and successful reproduction ends with me.
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The problem with this theory is that only intelligent people will do this, in which case the human race will effectively regress back into primates. Tbh, this might even increase the longevity of the human race since technology seems to be shortening it by several million years according to all current indications.

 

[Xenomorph]

For the record, the Ceo of GoDaddy the american Webspace provider does this same thing too, people left GoDaddy in droves after it emerged he'd shot and killed a young elephant. I'm pretty sure I signed a petition against him ages ago after he'd shot a lion too. What is it with rich idiots killing terrified innocent animals for sport?

 

[Surfinjo]

The Zimbabwean researcher who followed Cecil the lion for nine years, and was the one who discovered he had been killed has told the BBC he heard when he found out about Cecil's death.

Brent Stapelkamp, from the Oxford University Wildlife Conservation Research Unit, told the BBC's Alastair Leithead that he had found the international reaction to the killing "overwhelming".

Video on the link.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-33812449

 

[Pomerlaw]

To the OP. Try to imagine how you would feel about a toddler being tossed into a gladiators pit with a sexual predator, who finished the deed by smiling over the baby's corpse for a photograph. That is how animal activist feel about humans hunting defenseless animals for sport.

They are a bit insane then (in my opinion). A lot of them seem to think humans are responsible for all suffering, that would somehow dissapear if we weren't there. But we ARE a product of nature. I agree we should take more responsabilities for our actions though.

They have a completely unrealistic, Disney World vision of Nature, which is cruel and always has been. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/s...-on-their-remains-when-they-die/#.VdJBgvl_NBd

We aren't highly evolved mate unfortunately. Whales are. They have more empathy, compassion and natural ethics than Mother Teresa on Ecstasy.

I'm sorry, but how do you know that? Are you somehow able to enter a whale's consciousness to know how it sees the world?
And they looked like that a few millions years ago...

 

[Surfinjo]

They are a bit insane then (in my opinion). A lot of them seem to think humans are responsible for all suffering, that would somehow dissapear if we weren't there. But we ARE a product of nature. I agree we should take more responsabilities for our actions though.

They have a completely unrealistic, Disney World vision of Nature, which is cruel and always has been.


I'm sorry, but how do you know that? Are you somehow able to enter a whale's consciousness to know how it sees the world?
And they looked like that a few millions years ago...

Quite, which gives us the same right of ownership over everything as any other product of nature.

Where our right becomes superior, giving us the right to destroy, or not is by conquest. The law of nature.

What survives, does so, not because of some philosophical right, but because we, as masters of all we survey, say it should.

Now will someone please tell the cats!

 

[Surfinjo]

The US dentist who sparked an international outcry after killing a lion in Zimbabwe has said he did nothing wrong and is planning to return to work this week.

Speaking in his first interview since the July killing of Cecil the lion, Walter Palmer said he had been unaware of the animal's significance.

He also revealed that there had been "some safety issues" for his family.

Zimbabwe has said it wishes to extradite and prosecute Mr Palmer.

Speaking publicly for the first time about the incident, he told the Associated Press and Minneapolis Star Tribune that he had acted legally, but said that if he had known who the animal was he would not have killed it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34171847

 

[Patrick_68000]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34171847

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/16114/production/_84688309_hi028440990.jpg

Very good !

 

[Ravenscroft]

I think what infuriates people is the fact that money can buy you anything, even a licence from the Zimbabwean govt. to hunt big game with a bow and arrow and also collusion from guides to kill a protected animal. I am sorry this man's family is being incommoded, but how about Cecil's? Also, what is never mentioned is how many animals are injured, not killed. I was told by a hunter that while in the Sudan, a German bow-and-arrow enthusiast put thirteen steel arrows into an elephant ... which got away. Great sport. But in the end, money-hungry governments are to blame. The animals are simply a commodity.

 

[Patrick_68000]

I think what infuriates people is the fact that money can buy you anything, even a licence from the Zimbabwean govt. to hunt big game with a bow and arrow and also collusion from guides to kill a protected animal.

Personally what infuriates me is the stupidity of people who like to hunt the animals for the pleasure of the hunting

 

[beelbeebub]

So with the news that the lion killing dentist will not be prosecuted because he had the correct licences, I think some perspective is needed.
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The killing of lions, elephants and other "big game" animals is sometimes necessary. Without periodic culls, populations of certain species can get out of balance and the health of the whole park ecosystem and the populations of the various animals can suffer.
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Assuming an animal must be killed (for the above reasons) the next question is what is the most humane way to do it. The answer is with a high powered rifle shot to the heart or brain.The parks and reserves could pay expert marksmen to dispatch the animals, but expert marksmen do not come cheap.
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Luckily, some rich idiots will pay money to shoot "big game" animals, so the smart thing to do is to charge these people an huge amount of money for the "privilege" of shooting an animal for you.So, regardless of your thoughts on hunting, the practice of selling licences to kill a lion or elephant to rich American dentists is not unethical.
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The fault in this whole sorry affair lies with the authorities for not properly administering and controlling the licencing of the hunts.
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More to the point, some people need to reflect on their reactions to the case. Was intimidating the hunter, his family and friends really a legitimate reaction? Is making your child hold up a placard with "Lion Killing Scum" a good teaching experience for them?
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Is it ok to hate and threaten someone you've never met simply because you find some of their hobbies distasteful?
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It's a short step from "Honey, it's ok to wish that hunter dead because they do something (lawful) that we find distasteful" to "Honey, it's ok to wish that gay person dead because they do something (lawful) that we find distasteful".
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For the record, I find "big game hunting" rather distasteful. I see the logic of making money that can be used for conservation from the necessary practice of culling, but I don't see the attraction of shooting a lion/elephant etc. myself. If the hunter in question had broken the law by not getting a permit or hunting outside the terms of the permit, I would fully support his prosecution.

 

[Caput Mortis]

 

[Surfinjo]

So with the news that the lion killing dentist will not be prosecuted because he had the correct licences, I think some perspective is needed.
.
The killing of lions, elephants and other "big game" animals is sometimes necessary. Without periodic culls, populations of certain species can get out of balance and the health of the whole park ecosystem and the populations of the various animals can suffer.
.
Assuming an animal must be killed (for the above reasons) the next question is what is the most humane way to do it. The answer is with a high powered rifle shot to the heart or brain.The parks and reserves could pay expert marksmen to dispatch the animals, but expert marksmen do not come cheap.
.
Luckily, some rich idiots will pay money to shoot "big game" animals, so the smart thing to do is to charge these people an huge amount of money for the "privilege" of shooting an animal for you.So, regardless of your thoughts on hunting, the practice of selling licences to kill a lion or elephant to rich American dentists is not unethical.

These are great arguments.

If I may extend.

Some people, legitimately convicted by courts, are sentenced to death.

OK, many countries don't have the death penalty, but most don't allow the killing of wild lions, tigers, elephants and meercats either!

Now many wealthy American dentists and some others will be more than willing to pay for the privilege of shooting these condemned criminals.

A quick head or heart shot and its all over.

Certainly a lot more humane than strangling them with a rope, stoning or pumping their bodies full of chemicals.

As a bonus, those countries who are regularly criticised for abusing and mistreating their prisoners could simply had over the responsibility of killing the criminals to a private company. Then it would be their responsibility to ensure the welfare of the guilty.

They could even have a short chase and broadcast it on live TV, with advertising sold to Toys-R-Us and Mazda Cars.

Everyone wins.

 

[beelbeebub]

These are great arguments.

If I may extend.

Some people, legitimately convicted by courts, are sentenced to death.

OK, many countries don't have the death penalty, but most don't allow the killing of wild lions, tigers, elephants and meercats either!

Now many wealthy American dentists and some others will be more than willing to pay for the privilege of shooting these condemned criminals.

A quick head or heart shot and its all over.

Certainly a lot more humane than strangling them with a rope, stoning or pumping their bodies full of chemicals.

As a bonus, those countries who are regularly criticised for abusing and mistreating their prisoners could simply had over the responsibility of killing the criminals to a private company. Then it would be their responsibility to ensure the welfare of the guilty.

They could even have a short chase and broadcast it on live TV, with advertising sold to Toys-R-Us and Mazda Cars.

Everyone wins.

A straw man/reductio ad absurdum argument? Come on Surfinjo, you can do better than that.
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Which point are you arguing against?
1. Culling is a necessary process in game reserves and parks
2. Shooting is the most humane method of dispatch
3. If there is a way of minimising the cost of, or even making money from, a necessary activity, it is logical to do so.
4. Money collected from issuing licences can be used for conservation work such as poaching patrols or breeding programs
5. The overall health and welfare of the ecosystem and individual species takes priority over the life of any individual animal.
6. It is bad to teach children that it's fine to hate other human beings simply because the do something you disapprove of.

 

[Surfinjo]

A straw man/reductio ad absurdum argument? Come on Surfinjo, you can do better than that.
:
Which point are you arguing against?
1. Culling is a necessary process in game reserves and parks
2. Shooting is the most humane method of dispatch
3. If there is a way of minimising the cost of, or even making money from, a necessary activity, it is logical to do so.
4. Money collected from issuing licences can be used for conservation work such as poaching patrols or breeding programs
5. The overall health and welfare of the ecosystem and individual species takes priority over the life of any individual animal.
6. It is bad to teach children that it's fine to hate other human beings simply because the do something you disapprove of.

You're right. I was being flippant.

I think the whole thing has been a tad silly. I wonder if the guy's crime was to shoot an animal or to be an American?

As for the animals in Africa, it's over.