Challenger = Chieftain = Crusader, Krait = Python... What's the point?

[Apos]

The chieftain and the challenger don't even fly the same. Even though their pitch rate is really close, the challenger drifts much less. Their experience is quite different.

Even in terms of aesthetics, the differences are subtle, yet notable enough to create preferences. For example I like the engine arrangement of the chieftain, but the tail wings of the challenger. And well, that means the crusader is going to be my favourite in terms of looks.

And I'll take any alliance ship FD throws our way. I'm very happy with the trio, I just hope we get a proper big ship as well.

 

[lenna]

I don't think it's a clone but looking at the specs, it really is very similar to the Python and it seems to boil down to the characteristics you mentioned which I find insufficient to justify the existance of the Krait.

For you perhaps, but not for everyone.

The Python and the Krait serve quite different roles.

I don't actually get why some are so dead against these new ships that FD have been adding - the only explanation that seems to fit in my mind would seem to be a case of "ship envy" with any excuse being used to rail against them just for the sake of it.

 

[Tarman]

For you perhaps, but not for everyone.

The Python and the Krait serve quite different roles.

I don't actually get why some are so dead against these new ships that FD have been adding - the only explanation that seems to fit in my mind would seem to be a case of "ship envy" with any excuse being used to rail against them just for the sake of it.

Paper piloting. Too much focus on the numbers without any practical flight time; along with a healthy dose of that contrarianism you mention, which seems to be ingrained in the Elite community.

 

[lenna]

Paper piloting. Too much focus on the numbers without any practical flight time; along with a healthy dose of that contrarianism you mention, which seems to be ingrained in the Elite community.

Same old "my build is better than your build" spreadsheet warrior kitsch then?

 

[Vardaugas]

Paper piloting. Too much focus on the numbers without any practical flight time; along with a healthy dose of that contrarianism you mention, which seems to be ingrained in the Elite community.

This. One thing Fdev are really good in is giving each ship its own personality. The way it sounds, maneuvers, performs. It's always very unique.

Couldn't get my in a Cobra III, yet I absolutely adore the Viper IV. On paper, they are pretty much the same, but from the pilot seat, they are distinctly different ships.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Paper piloting. Too much focus on the numbers without any practical flight time; along with a healthy dose of that contrarianism you mention, which seems to be ingrained in the Elite community.

at least numbers are objective

 

[lenna]

at least numbers are objective

The problem with any metrics is that they do not tell you anything about the context.

You can play with numbers all day, but they do not necessarily translate well in practice. A small difference in metric terms can equate to either a huge or negligible contextual impact.

Numbers are meaningless without context, and even with context you can not tell the whole story just from the numbers.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

The problem with any metrics is that they do not tell you anything about the context.

You can play with numbers all day, but they do not necessarily translate well in practice. A small difference in metric terms can equate to either a huge or negligible contextual impact.

Numbers are meaningless without context, and even with context you can not tell the whole story just from the numbers.

So what's the context here?

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Paper piloting. Too much focus on the numbers without any practical flight time; along with a healthy dose of that contrarianism you mention, which seems to be ingrained in the Elite community.

We call it "hangar flying".

Ever since the original Python got nerfed, there has been a cry to have a combat Python-sized ship. After multi-crew, there has been a cry to give the Python an SLF. The new ships do that.

For those of us who don't do multi-crew, or combat very much, the new ships are not all that interesting...except to be shot down by them. Since I play solo, the only time I will see such ships is when they are attacking me. The only choice is to run away. Another mini-game, and perhaps a rebuy. Not a lot of content addition for exploring, trading, and mining. Just annoyance.

 

[Stigbob]

So what's the context here?

Numbers can be entirely objective, it depends how they are presented.

Video games are entirely subjective though so they are irrelevant a lot of the time.

 

[Tarman]

Same old "my build is better than your build" spreadsheet warrior kitsch then?

It's easy to be dismissive of something when you don't have the full picture, and for vehicle operation (even pretend ones of sufficient detail) you need to actually move it around to truly say what its field parameters will be for your piloting style or whether it handles like some other ship. Quite sure I could build 60 similar-arrangement (FR and such, the big parameters) cars in Gran Turismo with the exact same kitout and get 60 different op conditions even before tweaking the components themselves.

In a vehicle moving game, having vehicles with subtle as well as pronounced differences that you can alter to suit your preferences is a gigantic part of its appeal. 60 different-looking vehicles all handling exactly the same might as well be 1, but that doesn't mean you always need to go from formula racer to monster truck to speedboat to camelback in variance. Always room to expand within an existing field as well as making new fields, to better find something that has your signature on it within a given field or set of fields instead of taking the one and lonely choice.

Plus, the spreadsheet prejudice completely disregards the effect of personal taste. There are people who fly ships because they love the look and feel of the ship; the sounds of its boosters; they only fly ships from certain makers; it has a really cool paintjob they think looks awesome on that hull; they're X-ship only pilot for whatever reason. Non-spreadsheet things that sell a ship on a pilot. Look at Uni, who can barely stay out of a Cobra after all these years. Many ships are flown because people lurve them, not because they win the spreadsheet battle. I categorically am aware that my Python is much better at BGS by sheer cargo capacity, and it's relatively tough to destroy, but I named it Cosmic Hippo for a reason. I do not like to fly it. The Krait by comparison is only named HS Complex Two because my original C3 was already named Han Solo Complex. >___>

... aaaaand I just realized my avatar has no sleeves on their jacket so he's essentially wearing a vest. ._____.

 

[Ethaidan]

I don't think it's a clone but looking at the specs, it really is very similar to the Python and it seems to boil down to the characteristics you mentioned which I find insufficient to justify the existance of the Krait.

You're wrong. Instead of merely looking at the specs, how about buying them both, kitting them out, engineering them, then testing out how they perform in different situations. They really are completely different ships - even with similar specs on paper.

 

[lenna]

Numbers can be entirely objective, it depends how they are presented.

Video games are entirely subjective though so they are irrelevant a lot of the time.

Pretty much sums up the situation...

In ED, ship stats only tell part of the story and at an insufficient level to draw solid conclusions.

In the case of the Krait and the Python, the differences are enough to make the experience flying each of them sufficiently different.

 

[Stigbob]

You're wrong. Instead of merely looking at the specs, how about buying them both, kitting them out, engineering them, then testing out how they perform in different situations. They really are completely different ships - even with similar specs on paper.

Exactly I think the Krait handles like a dream and the python sucks. It's the python that's entirely worthless in my personal subjective opinion. I couldn't care less about the numbers.

I would never ask for the python to be removed though, as other people like it.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

You're wrong. Instead of merely looking at the specs, how about buying them both, kitting them out, engineering them, then testing out how they perform in different situations. They really are completely different ships - even with similar specs on paper.

Pretty much sums up the situation...

In ED, ship stats only tell part of the story and at an insufficient level to draw solid conclusions.

In the case of the Krait and the Python, the differences are enough to make the experience flying each of them sufficiently different.

Exactly I think the Krait handles like a dream and the python sucks. It's the python that's entirely worthless in my personal subjective opinion. I couldn't care less about the numbers.

I would never ask for the python to be removed though, as other people like it.

Seems you guys forget that handling can also be quantified as a stat.

 

[lenna]

Seems you guys forget that handling can also be quantified as a stat.

Nope - Handling can be quantified but the end effect of the handling is qualitative in nature.

The Python and the Krait handle quite differently in practice.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Nope - Handling can be quantified but the end effect of the handling is qualitative in nature.

The Python and the Krait handle quite differently in practice.

Well, all stats provoke practical effects, otherwise nobody would read the stats.

 

[lenna]

Well, all stats provoke practical effects, otherwise nobody would read the stats.

The stats are not completely irrelevant, but you can not tell enough about in-game performance from them.

They are just indicators, nothing more.

 

[sollisb]

The point of them is pretty obvious; Shop sales... They're added like the guardian SLFs to entice you to buy in the shop.

 

[Stigbob]

Seems you guys forget that handling can also be quantified as a stat.

Of course it can't, I don't even know how it stacks up against the competition I just like how it flies.