Challenger is not a challenge it's just no good.?

Frontier placing a poll earlier on twitter krait or Challenger which do you prefer, last time I looked it was 82 - 17 in favour of Krait.

So what will happen to the challenger, scrapped or design change or nothing, with the amount of reviews on it, it does not look to bright for the challenge, to much of a challenge, well not the ship for me.
Don't worry i'm not starting a poll, but it kind of shows the way forward for ship design.

A, No more rehashes and lazy design ships as the challenger has just proven (may delay the Crusader ?? Krait phantom?? maybe (will these be rehashes also!!)
B, start designing ships we don't have Boa, Mamba, gecko, Moray, and the rest make these version 2s if you wish the Krait worked out K...not gonna say it "Great"
C, Maybe design ships that are not just for the thargoid threat all the time (T10, Chieftain, Challenger so on) lets get some explorer versions from the original elite ships.

Your thoughts on ship design and where it should be going, before more of the same rehash designs come along. We got the Krait eventually so nothing wrong with wanting other new ship types, without making them from what we already have even though there are 17 cmdrs that like the challenger:/ probably more by now!.
 
Folks are excited by the Krait because it's something completely different that's been teased for over a year. It's got just about everything that people have clamored for in a Python. I have one; I like it well enough.

Folks are less excited by the Challenger because it's just kind of a rehash of the Chieftain. It's like the Federal Dropship/Assault Ship/Gunship, where they're all based off the same body and have similar stats. Nothing too exciting between them. Yet the Challenger has three medium hardpoints, which is pretty useful for fighting Thargoids. I think of it as having almost the firepower of a Gunship, but with a medium tragically downgraded to a small hardpoint. Still useful, and it makes up for that with speed and maneuverability that the Gunship hasn't got (though it doesn't have a fighter.)

And there's a solid history of variants of ship types, which is useful for getting more ships in the game with less development effort: See the Viper Mk III/Viper Mk IV, Cobra Mk III/Cobra Mk IV, Diamondback Scout/Explorer, Asp Scout/Explorer, Type 6/Keelback, Type 9/10 Defender, as well as the aforementioned Federal ships.

Each ship type has its uses; not each is necessarily super-useful or "the best" at anything, but there's variety there that some appreciate. Sometimes finding a use for a less commonly used ship is half the fun!

(Also, realize that the development pool is limited, so as Frontier adds ships they either meet a demand that's not there or tie them somehow to other content that's being added, hence adding ships to fight Thargoids. The Krait, however, isn't necessarily being released as a Thargoid counter, so I don't know what you're talking about in that regard.)
 
Frontier placing a poll earlier on twitter krait or Challenger which do you prefer, last time I looked it was 82 - 17 in favour of Krait.

So what will happen to the challenger, scrapped or design change or nothing, with the amount of reviews on it, it does not look to bright for the challenge, to much of a challenge, well not the ship for me.
Don't worry i'm not starting a poll, but it kind of shows the way forward for ship design.

A, No more rehashes and lazy design ships as the challenger has just proven (may delay the Crusader ?? Krait phantom?? maybe (will these be rehashes also!!)
B, start designing ships we don't have Boa, Mamba, gecko, Moray, and the rest make these version 2s if you wish the Krait worked out K...not gonna say it "Great"
C, Maybe design ships that are not just for the thargoid threat all the time (T10, Chieftain, Challenger so on) lets get some explorer versions from the original elite ships.

Your thoughts on ship design and where it should be going, before more of the same rehash designs come along. We got the Krait eventually so nothing wrong with wanting other new ship types, without making them from what we already have even though there are 17 cmdrs that like the challenger:/ probably more by now!.
Many people like the challenger.
Piracy oriented players seem to enjoy it quite a lot.

Personally I do feel that the Challenger and Chieftain are a bit too samey.
If the Crusader is based on the Chieftain too I hope it at least looks more different.
 
Folks are excited by the Krait because it's something completely different that's been teased for over a year. It's got just about everything that people have clamored for in a Python. I have one; I like it well enough.

Folks are less excited by the Challenger because it's just kind of a rehash of the Chieftain. It's like the Federal Dropship/Assault Ship/Gunship, where they're all based off the same body and have similar stats. Nothing too exciting between them. Yet the Challenger has three medium hardpoints, which is pretty useful for fighting Thargoids. I think of it as having almost the firepower of a Gunship, but with a medium tragically downgraded to a small hardpoint. Still useful, and it makes up for that with speed and maneuverability that the Gunship hasn't got (though it doesn't have a fighter.)

And there's a solid history of variants of ship types, which is useful for getting more ships in the game with less development effort: See the Viper Mk III/Viper Mk IV, Cobra Mk III/Cobra Mk IV, Diamondback Scout/Explorer, Asp Scout/Explorer, Type 6/Keelback, Type 9/10 Defender, as well as the aforementioned Federal ships.

Each ship type has its uses; not each is necessarily super-useful or "the best" at anything, but there's variety there that some appreciate. Sometimes finding a use for a less commonly used ship is half the fun!

(Also, realize that the development pool is limited, so as Frontier adds ships they either meet a demand that's not there or tie them somehow to other content that's being added, hence adding ships to fight Thargoids. The Krait, however, isn't necessarily being released as a Thargoid counter, so I don't know what you're talking about in that regard.)
I feel the game has got to a point where it may even be harder to bring the original ships back into the game because of the basic lore and mechanics of the game, back in 1984 we still had all the ships to fight off the thargoids, without a trace of fed gunships, T10, Chieftain, challengers etc, so as long as frontier make it happen their should be no problem about having them in game for a number of rolls. :)
 
Many people like the challenger.
Piracy oriented players seem to enjoy it quite a lot.

Personally I do feel that the Challenger and Chieftain are a bit too samey.
If the Crusader is based on the Chieftain too I hope it at least looks more different.
Here lies the problem, rehashing of ships since the challenger is now top story in the community something the Devs must now know, so hopefully it's back to the drawing board for crusader and phantom? plus it is properly annoying that this is 100% a lazy developer tactic plain and simple.
 
Variants can be very similar w/o basically being copies with a few things moved around. As an example, the Krait Phantom could be slightly shorter with a more narrow fuselage and a two person tandom cockpit. Reduce the wingspan a little while also changing the angle on the leading edge to be more aggressively swept and then spruce up the wingy bits on the bottom a bit. Definitely still a Krait but it would have a bit more interior and exterior uniqueness compared to the current trend of variants.

Glad I'm not alone in not really liking the excessive sameiness of some ships in the current lineup.
 
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Copy/Paste or basing something on a similar base-frame is completely understandable and should be kept. It's been done for centuries: just think on all weapons based on the AK-47/74, a lot of WWII Tanks were just different turrets on the same frame. It allows producers to have flexibility without having to do a completely new design while also deriving from other models of the ship. It makes perfect sense in terms of economy and eficiency.

If we only had unique ships EVERYONE would be complaining about the low frequency of ship releases, because designing a ship is not just drawing three lines and two hours of texturing/modelling work.

And it's not like there's no work included in the derived versions, balancing and playtesting still has to be done, apart from the slight changes to the base frame that also need their time.
 
On this thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/436899-Where-are-the-deep-space-exploration-ships this person said:

What you really want is to buy a base hull and spec it out to be an explorer.

The only thing that should be dedicated is the hardpoints because they are specifically engineered to address the stress of weapons fire. That said, you should be able to use them for purposes other than weaponry if you choose.

Following this logic, you would then build a ship with the abilities you choose, or make sacrifices and compromises if you are determined to use that particular hull. Any unused space becomes cargo.
And personally I think this might be a better way forward. It would negate the need for slightly differing rehash designs, and take the pressure off the dev's to produce whole new ships on a regular basis.

You could pick your favourite ship and stick with it, developing it to suit your needs, rather than having to buy one ship for one role and one for another role etc. The ship kits could substantially alter the ship's appearance in place of the model variants we currently see. E.g. the Federal Dropship could have been the base ship, a kit could have made it look like the FAS or FGS variants and shifted the hardpoints, and we could choose our own internals accordingly, with the compromises made being our own choice.
 
I just spent 3 days in CZ in a Challenger.

My main challenge was not giggling like a schoolgirl.

It's a fun ship, that is designed perfectly for its role.
 
I think the argument of "cut and paste" is misleading and inaccurate. Making variants or very similar-looking designs does not equal copy/paste.

At first glance, the F-14 and F-15 are very similar in appearance (two engines, two tails, swept-back wings) but you can hardly point to the variable-wing of the F14 and call it the equivalent of a "ship kit." Both aircraft have very different functions and abilities.

There are TEN "main production variants" of the F-16 alone.

For the in-game example, the Challenger is structurally different, with all four engine pods in the back of the ship, vs having a pair up toward the front. Then there's the different armor, different hardpoints, different speeds, different optional internal configuration.

Finding ways to re-use existing proven technology isn't "laziness" or copy/paste, it's efficient use of resources to address multiple applications.
 

Ozric

Volunteer Moderator
Frontier placing a poll earlier on twitter krait or Challenger which do you prefer, last time I looked it was 82 - 17 in favour of Krait.

So what will happen to the challenger, scrapped or design change or nothing, with the amount of reviews on it, it does not look to bright for the challenge, to much of a challenge, well not the ship for me.
Don't worry i'm not starting a poll, but it kind of shows the way forward for ship design.

A, No more rehashes and lazy design ships as the challenger has just proven (may delay the Crusader ?? Krait phantom?? maybe (will these be rehashes also!!)
B, start designing ships we don't have Boa, Mamba, gecko, Moray, and the rest make these version 2s if you wish the Krait worked out K...not gonna say it "Great"
C, Maybe design ships that are not just for the thargoid threat all the time (T10, Chieftain, Challenger so on) lets get some explorer versions from the original elite ships.

Your thoughts on ship design and where it should be going, before more of the same rehash designs come along. We got the Krait eventually so nothing wrong with wanting other new ship types, without making them from what we already have even though there are 17 cmdrs that like the challenger:/ probably more by now!.
Have you flown the Challenger?
 
The main problem is that FD are releasing new content and ships too damn quickly!

I still havn't unlocked all the guardian tech from 3.0 (or all the original engineers for that matter);
Havn't got round to Ram Tah's second mission - loved doing the first one;
Havn't explored new mega ships;
Havn't fully tweaked my (wee) fleet with all the new engineer experimentals for non-weapon;
Finally finished off and started testing out my shiny new Chieftain...

And boom. Two more ships, planetary installations, more mega-ship interaction...

I saw the twitter poll, but havn't fully finished and properly fly-tested my new Krait... may get round to the Challenger before 3.2 drops?
 
I think if in a poll Krait wins 82 votes over 99 it's because she's a good multipurpose ship , not because the Challenger is wrong . My only combat ship right now is a FDL , but out of curiosity I tried both the Chieftain and the Challenger , they DO their job and are different combat ships on many extents . I still prefer the FDL as combat ship ,still adore the Python as the greatest all rounder , plus I'm enjoying experimenting the Krait in different roles . But after tried the Chellenger I was not disappointed at all , it's a really pleasing ship , just not my cup of tea . (I'd still vote for the Krait btw hehe.. long live multiroles!)
 
I think my only beef is they keep bringing out rehashes of ships, which I just feel is a lazy approach. I have a chieftain and I like it but just don't need a challenger as well, as it practically is a same ship just with spoilered engines and a extra slot.!
 
I think my only beef is they keep bringing out rehashes of ships, which I just feel is a lazy approach. I have a chieftain and I like it but just don't need a challenger as well, as it practically is a same ship just with spoilered engines and a extra slot.!
I was kinda feeling that same way until someone compared the progression of the Chieftain and the Challenger to the Federal Dropship, Gunship, and Assault Ship. The five are a close match to each other and now I'm wondering if it's a sign that the Alliance is using the Thargoid invasion as cover to quietly prepare for war against the Federation.
 
I was kinda feeling that same way until someone compared the progression of the Chieftain and the Challenger to the Federal Dropship, Gunship, and Assault Ship. The five are a close match to each other and now I'm wondering if it's a sign that the Alliance is using the Thargoid invasion as cover to quietly prepare for war against the Federation.
Hmmmmm :)
 
Challenger serves well as a Thargoid Class hunter. Pack full of Guardian Tech and A Rated, GR5 Engineered Components and you have something to really shine.

Personally though, I prefer my Krait. It's quite literally "a new ship" to this game. Having never owned a Python, there is no need now. Just finding a role for my Chieftain now becomes the problem. I'd love to see the Boa, Mamba and ships of old return. I think it's time for new Exploration vessels.

Gary
 
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