Change My Mind

[Sterling MH]

That's the point. Everybody powerplaying in solo makes PvP gameplay meaningless

Nope. It doesn't. But removing it from the majority of modes means it IS meaningless because it doesn't exist. You, however, still get to play Solo or PG.

"Sandro is proposing these changes so that powerplay can return to its intended PvP-centric roots"
Yeah, but you made up the bit about what it will return to. Sandro never said that.

 

[dfgqsb]

Can you outline exactly how it will "kill powerplay"?


Currently I think powerplay is already dead. These proposed changes would make powerplay PvP gameplay more meaningful, with players able to directly put a stop to underminers and stop enemy factions from shipping fortification materials to their control systems.
Players would need to wing up and fight for their systems, which is exactly the type of PvP gameplay that is needed in this game. I am not convinced that undermining/fortifying from solo makes the game any better.

I agree.

Well how will the change change that? Either there already ARE pewpewtargets in open and there is no issue, or the pewpewtargets won't move to Open to be pewpewtargets for you. Meaning it will get even MORE dead.

So does he, about powerplay is already dead.

 

[Genus]

Redundant "Open only Powerplay" arguments...

1/. No one has to play in [Insert Mode Here] if they don't want to

2/. [Insert Mode Here] Powerplay activities make it unfair for those that choose to play [Insert Other Mode Here] only, or favour [Insert Mode Here]

3/. Any point which claims putting a boundary in between any feature or [Insert Mode Here] is rational game design for ED

4/. Any point which links PvP or PvE as suffering or benefitting from the suggested change to Powerplay being Open only

5/. Any point which claims technical solutions such as Bots, Router Modifications, P2P Networking or Instancing, has anything to do with motivating Sandro to have made the suggestion


I don't think I've left anything major out of that list, happy to consider extending it if suggestions are agenda'less. They cover all the nonsense I've read for the last couple of days and are all redundant systemically. If anyone can come up with a rational...non-sociopathic argument outside of those points, I'll be happy to consider it.

 

[Sterling MH]

Ok, take this example:

Archon was turned inside out by 5C a few weeks ago.

20 systems were fortified

3 unwanted systems were expanded to 2500% each

1 wanted system was opposed to about 2000%

All this was done by invisible enemies in invisible ships.

Yes. Invisible. You can be invisible too.Go solo. Job done.

If it's such a game breaking superpower that the invisibility itself makes the win, use it. If you can't win playing invisible ships, then you suck at PP and it wasn't the invisibility that made you lose.

 

[NY09]

Or they could just log into open if they want to partake in powerplay. Nobody is forced to play permanently in solo, you know. Just like nobody is forced to take part in powerplay.

Sadly this isn't strictly true. Single player console players, who bought the game because it was advertised as a single player game, are unable to play in open unless they pay a monthly access fee to Sony or Microsoft.

If you think console players are unimportant, you should review Frontier's 2017 financial statement to understand how important FD thinks console players are.

You also underestimate the number of cross platform players who want nothing to do with online gaming, preferring the single player experience.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Im in agreement that PP going open is good fer the game...Im not in agreement at pvp players attempting to rub salt into the wounds. This is a hot enough topic without throwing more fuel at the fire, and threads like this wont make the situation any better.

In this case, some levels of stupid are beyond repair...yer doing more harm than ye realize...1/10 ^

I think the OP is a legit question. When you take a way all the non-arguments and focus just on this one simple question ("Why do you think powerplay is made better if you allow people to undermine etc in solo?") you may actually get real arguments for keeping it in Solo. I havent heard any yet, because people keep dodging having to discuss powerplay itself. We now had dozens or hundreds of pages, and most people who are against the change pretty much are 'against people in Open' or 'pvpers' or 'feel this is the beginning of the end', without ever saying what is so good about being able to grind riskfree directly against other people.

And its a fairly decent question:" Why do you feel you should be able to attack the systems of other players, while simultaneously believing it is unfair for those players you are actively working against to try and shoot you for it?"

 

[Rubbernuke]

Redundant "Open only Powerplay" arguments...

1/. No one has to play in Open if they don't want to

2/. Solo Powerplay activities make it unfair for those that choose to play Open only

3/. Any point which claims putting a chinese wall in between any feature or mode is rational game design for ED

4/. Any point which links PvP or PvE as suffering or benefitting from the suggested change to Powerplay being Open only.


If anyone can come up with a rational...non-sociopathic argument outside of those points, I'll be happy to consider it.

Well for your second point, read my post. 5C hiding in Solo and PG are the bane of Powerplay.

 

[Sterling MH]

So does he, about powerplay is already dead.

So it's dead. Get over it. Move on, and let PP exist for all three modes.

Well for your second point, read my second point. 5C hiding in Solo and PG are the bane of Powerplay.

Be 5C yourself. Hide in Solo.Screw them up. And 5C will win in open because you keep claiming that PvP isn't an instant lose for anyone not doing the combat stuff. So that 20000% goes down to,what? 19900%?

 

[Ian Skippy]

Redundant "Open only Powerplay" arguments...

1/. No one has to play in [Insert Mode Here] if they don't want to

2/. [Insert Mode Here] Powerplay activities make it unfair for those that choose to play [Insert Mode Here] only, or favour [Insert Mode Here]

3/. Any point which claims putting a chinese wall in between any feature or [Insert Mode Here] is rational game design for ED

4/. Any point which links PvP or PvE as suffering or benefitting from the suggested change to Powerplay being Open only.


If anyone can come up with a rational...non-sociopathic argument outside of those points, I'll be happy to consider it.

Powerplay could be a fun feature for players interested in a competitive feature, rather than the senseless grindfest it currently is. heck, you yourself have gone on and on about how terribly stupid PP currently is and why noone ever plays it. And now they want to change it suddenly it should stay this way?

 

[Rubbernuke]

Be 5C yourself. Hide in Solo.Screw them up.

I'll pretend you did not write that.

So you are now saying use Solo to kill powerplay more?

So, you are saying Solo is bad for Powerplay now?

 

[Ian Skippy]

Be 5C yourself. Hide in Solo.Screw them up.

Some want to play an actual game, not exploit their way while being invulnerable. Some people feel that mindless exploit grinding in isolation is not a particularly good design for people to oppose each others power. Weird, I know.

 

[c00ky1970]

I will admit I dont powerplay.

Most of Sandro's flash post went over my head.

But, I can see the logic in PP being Open only, as it's function is adversarial. Now they do offer the propoganda way of doing things, but at teh end of the day the idea is that you go out and destroy as many ships of "the other side" to get enough thingies, to allocate to a doohickey and wait to see if something happens every Thursday.

This to me sounds like a PvP focussed gameplay, and to date all clever PPers joina Private Group of like minded individuals and murder NPCs in their engineered ships.

Allowing/forcing these "warmongers" to actually go up against other like minded players with the same or better engineered ships will mean that there is an element of risk, Dangerousness even in this PP operation.

As far as I am concerned go for it and have at them, whoever "them" is that week.

 

[Perseus]

Do you think that Dev time should be set aside for a game mode that less than 5% of the players base uses or that we should fix other parts of the game first before we get around to removing a set number of people from a game mode they bought?

Yes, I do. It was badly implemented and it's being addressed. This should see it's popularity rise.
It isn't removing people from a game mode - people do that themselves when they select open/pg/solo.

 

[Sterling MH]

I will admit I dont powerplay.

Most of Sandro's flash post went over my head.

But, I can see the logic in PP being Open only, as it's function is adversarial.

But not direct adversarial. That was CQC. See CQC.See it not run.

You support your faction, they support theirs. Player efforts vs Player efforts. NOT player ship vs player ship. Again, that was CQC.

Yes, I do. It was badly implemented and it's being addressed.

But the addressing is other than the "make it open only". None of the rest of the several points were reliant on Open only.

 

[Rubbernuke]

But not direct adversarial. That was CQC. See CQC.See it not run.

You support your faction, they support theirs. Player efforts vs Player efforts. NOT player ship vs player ship. Again, that was CQC.

It is adversarial.

CQC is ship v ship in controlled arenas.

Powerplay is ship v ship and power v power in the galaxy, with random encounters and combat

 

[Lateralus]

I'll pretend you did not write that.

So you are now saying use Solo to kill powerplay more?

So, you are saying Solo is bad for Powerplay now?

Let him carry on, he's doing wonders for the 'yes' argument [up]

 

[Cheese Helmet]

So it's dead. Get over it. Move on, and let PP exist for all three modes.



Be 5C yourself. Hide in Solo.Screw them up. And 5C will win in open because you keep claiming that PvP isn't an instant lose for anyone not doing the combat stuff. So that 20000% goes down to,what? 19900%?

If it's dead it doesn't need to exist in all three modes. Moving it to open only isnt gonna bother anyone then.

And the whole if you can't play pp right play it wrong like the solo players is absurd. Youre not here to debate. Youre just here because you have some weird vandetta about anything pvp.

 

[Phazon Xenomorph]

I agree with Rinzler Senpai, this is good that powerplay is Open only and will help foster better pilots and better powerplay experiences. Notice me Senpai!

But in all seriousness I am for the idea of Open Powerplay. Doesn't seem fair to me to go around being able to manipulate the balance of powers in the galaxy without even being able to put up any resistance because of Private Groups / Mobius / Solo. I just don't like the way that feels. Yeah the game was marketed as any mode can do anything but opinions change over time and Frontier can clearly see infographics we don't have access to and might be rethinking some decisions. Lets see how it feels before jumping the shark here.

 

[Sterling MH]

If it's dead it doesn't need to exist in all three modes.

If it's dead, then remove it from all of them, then.

Let him carry on, he's doing wonders for the 'yes' argument [up]

But anything is counted as a "yes" for the fundies of PvPewew. Look at the evangelists.

 

[SnowyNI]

Let me get my Mystic Meg hat on.... "PP moves to Open, CLs go up 1000%" ...you're welcome!