Changes are needed for making claims at new outposts

im not making claims on any future pathway. im just saying that if you want to colonise from a system thats way out there, and you arent part of the group that made the way out there, you would have to wait for a little before being able to colonise from the last point.
Right. In an unknown growing length and direction*. Of course there is no way to know which direction the path is going, because various members of the group want cool systems along the way, so it can take a brief turn here, or branch off there. You are describing the ability to reserve a region of space.

*From everybody else's point of view.
 
being mostly an explorer, I don’t care at all about colonisation because I can reach most places in the galaxy in my ship. Therefore also my attitude to lean back and do something else. The south side of the galaxy is said to be beautiful at that time of the year.

All I care in terms of colonisation is that stations get in-lore names because we are neither in a galaxy far away and long ago nor in any other sci-fi universe and second thing I care is that famous systems don’t get littered or pirate infested thanks to colonies because explorer ships aren’t really built for PvE.

The reason why I posted in this thread is because I wanted to help you understand that FDev won’t and shouldn’t waste a lot of effort into an unnecessarily complicated mechanics to fulfill your wish but instead develop some new features for many, if not all players.
 
if you are 1k ly from the bubble, looking at system being available to colonisation only thanks to a group of people from one squadron who made the bridge there, and you take the only elw system in the vicinity the very moment they complete the last system in the chain required to get there, you would have hard time convincing me it was by accident.
ignorance is a choice.
to be honest it's moot imo and I say this as someone who in principle supports having a very time limited 1st dibs on 1 system for one person involved in the building of the previous system.

however that is a rule change . IF the rules stay as they are with 1st come 1st served then frankly I will try to get what ever system I can. I ain't got time to worry about what the architect may or may not be doing and there is a good chance if I procrastinated it would be just as likely as another sniper to take the system anyway.
IF it's in the rules of the game then it is fair game imo. I have 2 systems bookmarked for when the game comes online and I will make no apology if I get one of them should someone post here with an "oi" you nicked my system . ;)
 
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FDev won’t and shouldn’t waste a lot of effort into an unnecessarily complicated mechanics to fulfill your wish but instead develop some new features for many, if not all players.
-if you arent part of the squad-faction that colonised a system (potentially only system out in black), you have to wait a day a time period before you can use that systems colonisation contact
to prevent squad/faction swap abuse
-if you left squad, you have to wait before joining/making another
-if you aligned squad with faction, you have to keep that faction perma / if your squad abandons faction, you have to wait before aligning with another

these changes seem too complex to you? i dont think they are.

as a disclaimer im not that into colonisation either. i dont care about any particular system, i dont care if this or that gets colonised to this or that amount. ill be playing mostly in bubble and if im exploring it will be as consequential to my gameplay as a location of a nearest dssa carrier.
the only reason im voicing this is because the sniping happened to multiple people in my vicinity, on this forum, and probably to many others that arent heard. im in this discussion because i think there could be a way out of this that would keep the wolf whole and sheep fed and i think i/we can attribute to that and that it would make the game better. this isnt my wish, nor is it anywhere close. me personally, if i got a year of no new content and just bugfixes id probably be more happy than if we got ship interiors, pather clipper, functional coffee machines, surface speeders and strippers on the carrier or whatever...

tho yknow, some people were using the argument of unnecessary complicated mechanics against colonisation way back too. and yet
 
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I don't have any issue with a proposed mechanic where the Colonization Contact is blocked to everybody else for 24 hours.
(Edit, And if this eliminates frustration or bad feelings towards others, then it is a good idea)

I have issue (see waaay back in the thread) with the assumption that someone is an evil sniper simply because they claimed a nice looking system. As the game stands now, any cmdr can innocently claim a cool looking system. There is no way for regular Cmdr Joe to know other cmdrs intention. And Cmdr Joe should not be required to contact another player IRL for permission.
 
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I don't have any issue with a proposed mechanic where the Colonization Contact is blocked to everybody else for 24 hours.
(Edit, And if this eliminates frustration or bad feelings towards others, then it is a good idea)
im glad to hear that
I have issue (see waaay back in the thread) with the assumption that someone is an evil sniper simply because they claimed a nice looking system
did i make that claim? if yes could you quote me? because that was never my intention.
 
Yes. You kept saying that people were sniping other people's system. Perhaps some people had devious evil intent. I suspect more often someone just found a nice system that was available.
as far as i know i never attributed any moral alignment to anyone. some systems were sniped. people who exploit other, be it for their own profit or just for kicks, exist. these things are both simultaneously true without implying they are connected...

I am genuinely concerned with people that this is deemed a good idea. Is the answer really to log into the game every day just in case the first station is finished? The paranoia is strong with this thread.
this isnt about paranoia, nor about loging in the game daily. this is about recognising the people that do log in daily and do pull the weight. if you want to play leisurly your gameplay wouldnt change in no way.
 
I am genuinely concerned with people that this is deemed a good idea. Is the answer really to log into the game every day just in case the first station is finished? The paranoia is strong with this thread.
I really don't care. If it is really important to someone then they can log in every day. Otherwise too bad, so sad.
 
I can solo 3 systems in that time
you certainly are making a point, i just dont think it is the one you think you are making :p
but otherwise i wholly agree. if you can pull the weight and do the 3 systems to get around in that time, you should deserve the spearhead position...
 
as far as i know i never attributed any moral alignment to anyone. some systems were sniped. people who exploit other, be it for their own profit or just for kicks, exist. these things are both simultaneously true without implying they are connected...


this isnt about paranoia, nor about loging in the game daily. this is about recognising the people that do log in daily and do pull the weight. if you want to play leisurly your gameplay wouldnt change in no way.
So don't go on holiday, don't go out for the evening with friends/ family because 'your' station might get sniped?

Oooookay, good luck, have fun.
 
if you left squad, you will have a cooldwon to create/join another.
Yet more inconvenience on general players to cover one extremely specific case where two large groups are fighting it out over the last 50 LY of a chain 1000 LY long.

Also doesn't help this case, because the general direction and primary faction of the chain is obvious weeks in advance and someone can prepare a suitable squadron for the takeover attempt in plenty of time. Or get a cheap alt that's never been in a squadron and therefore isn't subject to cooldowns to do it.

and architect changed squads-factions during the process, wouldnt the system still be under the original group? is this known?
This is known:
- the 60% faction is always the contact used in the previous system's, entirely independent of who the architect is
- the 13% faction is always the one the architect's current squadron is aligned to at the precise moment the system is finished (with no memory of what it might have been at any previous point)

-if you arent part of the squad-faction that colonised a system
Defined in what way?
- the squadron the architect belongs to?
- the squadron that contributed the most tonnage to the system's first asset?
- the squadron the individual largest contributor to the first asset belongs to?
- any squadron aligned to the colonising faction?

All four of those could be different squadrons. And that's another thing with the "effort" measure, of course. If squadron A sets up its next target, then goes to bed for the night, and people from squadron B come and finish off the outpost without them while they slept ... who has the moral right over advancement from that system? The person who paid a token sum to become the architect (and still benefits in having permanent rights to direct all future development there, receive passive income, etc), or the people who did all the actual hauling?





The problem here is ultimately that the game cannot determine intent [1]. If I colonise system A, the game doesn't know I'm only doing that to colonise system B next - so it's not reasonable for it to put too much barrier in the way of anyone else colonising system B, and it's not helping anyone at all for it to put a barrier in the way of anyone else to colonise system C which I don't care about anyway. A short timeframe (i.e. minutes) just to let the architect get over to the new station isn't a big deal (though also isn't all that useful to stop sniping), but longer cut-outs (days, weeks) are. If someone else is colonising system A, and I finish off their first outpost for them overnight, how much right do I gain over nearby system B by doing so (remembering that the game doesn't know their aim is A then B, and doesn't know if we're working as a team on this intentionally or not). Does that change if I hauled >50% of the cargo for A?

By the time I've got a chain 500 LY long going, my intended destination could be anywhere in a fairly wide cone, but won't by definition be >>99% of those systems (indeed, someone else colonising one of those in the right direction might even help, because it's one fewer I need to do). So putting any noticeable barriers in the way of anyone wanting to colonise any of those thousands of systems in the cone (or with the proposed squadron change cooldowns, people hundreds of LY away who are completely uninvolved in all of this and aren't even trying to colonise anywhere) is a really disproportionate way of preserving my vague "right" to keep one particular system 50 LY further on.

(Providing a way to state your intended destination to the game doesn't really help, because it just pushes the race back from "in colonisation range of the final system" to "in intention range of the final system")

[1] See also all the various doomed attempts over the last decade to define a C&P system which only punishes everyone else, or even just gets "liability for collisions near stations" right.
 
So don't go on holiday, don't go out for the evening with friends/ family because 'your' station might get sniped?

Oooookay, good luck, have fun.
yes. dont do anything other than play elite, praise braben, buy arx
in the little free time during braben tunnels make "so what you are saying..." strawman posts on forum
 
what are you getting riled up about when hes not even replying to you?
you claim that beta is for suggestions and improvements. suggestions are open to feedback and improvements too. some suggestions are unfortunate and will get shut down by arguments...

in regards to changing the system itself let me remind some of you
The aim of the Beta is to gather data and feedback specifically focused on resource balancing. We are happy with the System Colonisation feature itself and whilst we are always happy for you to share your feedback the aim of this Beta is aimed firmly at resource balancing and not changes to the feature itself.
That's not really fair or accurate to say. He was replying to me and I wasn't the one getting riled up, was simply explaining my points and trying to remain open to his ideas. I believe I said there are or could be ways to increase range while keeping the 15 ly loving crowd happy too. Getting riled up is ignoring/distorting what someone says to have a go at strawmen ie. accusing people of wanting to teleport in game. There's no need for attacks, people are just sharing ideas here. The topic of this thread goes beyond resources so people are gonna speculate and chime in. Personally I've enjoyed reading the different ideas about how the system can be improved.
 
It's been a while since we hauled together...
If that situation comes about, you have my 4 FCs willing to play a supporting role. 🥳
(possibly more, we are a happy bunch)
You have 4 FCs... that's not fair, I haven't got any. They should role back FCs until I have enough to buy 1. That seems fair to me :)
 
Other than cases where the stars are sparse enough that there is only one comparably efficient route to the target, how exactly?

You've got a high-profile target 1000 LY away, and it's the only obvious single-system target (planetary nebula, maybe?) worth doing that long a chain for.
You've done all the hard work to get a chain out the first 950 LY, so there's four hops still to go (maybe more).
What possible restriction can be applied at this point to stop another group jumping in its Fleet Carriers (fully loaded, while yours are returning to restock after finishing the 950 LY system) and racing you to the line for the last 50 LY, making the first 95% of the work largely irrelevant to securing the final claim?

Certainly none of the restrictions - even the more extreme ones - discussed in this thread would have any effect on that case at all, except maybe giving the first group a five-minute head start.

I feel very confident that - even if Frontier accepts that sniping is a problem at all - they're not going to give System Architects a permanent right to lock everyone else out of their systems' colonisation contact. And anything smaller than that either doesn't work at all, or just shifts the position of the key bit of the race slightly but doesn't otherwise affect the result.
Well. I DO think that "just" shifting the position of the key bit of the race would have different implications depending on the implementation. And some of those implementations are more interesting than others. The scenario you describe, where one group leapfrogs another by branching off the chain, sounds cool and exciting, especially when you start to consider what the first group might do to anticipate or counteract that. Perhaps this creates an incentive to mobilize a second fleet carrier, fill it up, and start heading towards the front line while the first one is offloading, etc etc. It can become a large scale series of coordinated logistical moves played out by different groups.

I think there's a possibility for interesting things to happen. Not that the current system as designed prevents interesting things, either. But it's a little different when the final link in the chain is determined pretty much the same way as getting student rush tickets to the opera, or whatever. Any play system reliant on Spamming refresh + praying is a good thing to reduce wherever possible.

None of this would satisfy the people who are right now complaining, of course, because it doesn't solve the underlying "problem" of . . . somebody else can potentially claim something that you haven't yet claimed but have already started thinking of as "yours". People are going to be burned no matter what, and some will demand the rules be changed to suit their sense of injustice, with no end to that. I don't care about that problem by itself, but I AM very interested in what kinds of incentives and disincentives will end up shaping the larger gameworld that I will subsequently be flying around in.

This is partially why I like the current system, 15ly limits and all, better than anything I've yet seen anyone else propose. It sounds like a recipe for a more interesting evolving game world to play inside of, regardless of how many stations I personally decide to build or how many places have my name on them.

But, it doesn't sound like most folks here share my interest in seeing the bubble branch out like a potato sending out tendrils in search of nutrients. They characterize this as "a bunch of boring undeveloped systems cluttering up the galaxy." They want lots of little clusters, player driven personal bubbles, scattered and disconnected all over the galaxy like thousands of micro Colonias. To me, THAT is ugly and boring, and incredibly artificial sounding. But whatever.

One maybe solution could be to allow system architects, once they have started building their station, to pre-select the next claim site, which will be auto-claimed at the moment of station completion. Yes, someone else could claim that system from a different station somewhere else, and I don't think they should be able to "reserve" anything or otherwise prevent someone from making a legitimate claim before the auto-claim happens. But it would free the system architect from having to worry about beating everyone to the claim gui when the station goes up.

I think if a solution like this were implemented, it would need to be transparent. Anyone docking at the station would be allowed to see and know what the next "target" system is going to be, and to react accordingly. There could be multiple system buildouts in progress all with the same system queued up as their next target claim, and then it would be a simple resource race to build your station before someone else does. To me, this kind of competition feels more fair and in keeping with the premise of what is happening in the game world than the current circumstance where it's going to be mostly an accident of internet connections more than anything else.

People will still be mad. People will still say it's unfair. I think the thing they're mad about would be a little more interesting and less arbitrary feeling, though.
 
once you align your squad with a faction, you stay with that faction permanently. no big deal. all of us who have our squadron faction are aligned with that faction in long term and dont need such service.
There it is. Inconvenience everyone on a matter unrelated (and tell yourself that it isn't really an inconvenience ACTUALLY) so that your issue is better served. How about no? How about you have to figure out a solution that doesn't require the rest of us to give up core game functionality?
 
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