News Chapter Four - Exploration Reveal

No because selection on the System Map would not appear on the new "radio signal" interface. You would still have to use it as described. But, upon honking you would at least see how many astronomical bodies you will have to work with.

I’m assuming when you open the interface it is pointing in the same direction the ship is pointing. All you would need to do is point the ship directly at the targeted planet, open the interface and it’s dead center. Now it would still need to be tuned in, but from seeing it on the system map you will more than likely know what it is and be able to tune it exactly.

This would make the tuning mechanics pointless
 
You are not playing by my rules. I am not in a position to decide the forum rules and neither are you.

Indeed, I have taken the conscious choice to engage in the debate. It is not personal.

There are no rules in this thread other than what the OP requests. In Focused feedback there are rules, there is no Rep button, there are stickys that serve to remind participants of the 'golden rule'

Here we have none of that, so I am free to decide which posts I reply to. You are free to distract this thread from it's intended use as much as I am.
 
I’m assuming when you open the interface it is pointing in the same direction the ship is pointing. All you would need to do is point the ship directly at the targeted planet, open the interface and it’s dead center. Now it would still need to be tuned in, but from seeing it on the system map you will more than likely know what it is and be able to tune it exactly.

This would make the tuning mechanics pointless

If a bunch of assumptions are true then it's pointless?

It may be better to state what you do want directly in reply to the OP, as they requested. Your own suggestion will undoubtedly be flawed in some way too. No solution will be perfect for all.
 
I’m assuming when you open the interface it is pointing in the same direction the ship is pointing. All you would need to do is point the ship directly at the targeted planet, open the interface and it’s dead center. Now it would still need to be tuned in, but from seeing it on the system map you will more than likely know what it is and be able to tune it exactly.

This would make the tuning mechanics pointless

I can't see how the two can actually be used together in good way yet. If someone comes up with a good idea that can marry the two together, I all for it. But as of yet I have not seen anything that will work in a satisfactory way.
 
I can't see how the two can actually be used together in good way yet. If someone comes up with a good idea that can marry the two together, I all for it. But as of yet I have not seen anything that will work in a satisfactory way.

And by spamming the thread (as we both are today for example) it only makes it harder to find one.

The OP has requested that replies be addressed only to them. This is a reasonable request considering the nature of the topic.
 
Last edited:
From what I can tell the new DS will also have unlimited range.
Congratulations!

3000-customers-869x490.tmb-blogpost.jpg
 
Congratulations!

There are some threads where this might be cause for celebration, I don't think this is one of them, and I don't envy the Frontier employee that has to read through all this. Frankly this thread has gone beyond the point where I would reasonably expect it to be digested in it's entirety, it is a wasted opportunity by the company & customers alike in my view and should be better managed.
 
ADS compromise?

I'm sure something like this has been suggested already, somewhere in this megathread...

But what about this for a compromise:
  • The ADS continues to reveal all astronomical bodies *
  • You can then use the new interface to DSS the planets without having to travel to them (to reveal the material compositions, and potentially get your 'first discovered tag')
  • You can also use the new interface to discover other "hidden" objects like USS's, using the energy spectrum thingy (and any other new fangled things they're adding to Q4... comets anyone? ;))
  • you would still need to travel to them if you wanted to probe the surface or rings for interesting POI's, or get the first-mapped tag.

*: maybe leave asteroid fields out of the ADS scan, so they have to be discovered the new 'hard way'... because how many would really care if the ADS didn't reveal asteroids? This could also be an opportunity for FD to add some cool new discoverables to asteroid fields.

So now the new scanner is additional functionality added on top of the existing. Nothing taken away.
 
The ADS already has unlimited range, the plan is to change that and some are not happy with this. Clearly infinite range is something FDev want to change, as do others.

No. The ADS will still have unlimited range, and so will the DSS functionality that gets wrapped into the ADS — no-one is complaining about that, and it's not something FDev wants to change. There is no plan to reduce the range; there is a plan to remove travel time and effectively make DSS infinite-range as well since that process is just the same ADS functionality, but continued until more information is extracted.

Rather, the complaint is that the honk is (as good as) immediate in how it reveals the system, and for some unclear reason, that is what they're changing. Some are happy that it'll take longer to figure out where the planets are; many are not.
 
Last edited:
What disappoints me the most in this thread is the unreasonable selfish attitude of the ADS haters, compromises (some good some bad) have been suggested yet a couple of people are vehemently against any sort of compromise (one was already on my ignore list and now the other joins them)...that IMO is unreasonable and I sincerely hope FD do NOT listen to that viewpoint.

I've seen it before in other games forums where changes are suggested and people quickly begin to act like they can't live without them and shout down anyone who doesn't support the changes or has some issues with them.

For my part and I welcome the changes but the removal of the honk is just daft.
 
Personally I hate all the discovery scanners at the moment. There is no gameplay attached to them at all and something needs to be done to make it more interactive instead of just pressing a button.

I think that there are three things FD are trying to do with the new exploration stuff.

1. Make it more interactive / engaging.
2. Streamline / remove the need for long SC trips in order to 'discover' bodies in a system.
3. Add more stuff to find.

Right now, it's fair to say that exploration mechanics are passive, and potentially long winded. However, to achieve the above points, there's no need to remove the honk being visually represented.

The new process once the system is shown will satisfy both points one and two, as players will use the new more active scanning mechanics to fully reveal the details of the planets in the system, and won't have to fly there to do it. If point three is valid in a system the player will have the opportunity to make the SC trip to the relevant bodies and undertake another active scan with probes.

Removing the ADS scan's visual results is something that FD presumably felt was a good idea, but the community reaction is mainly about some people pointing out it might be detrimental, and then a few others lambasting them as lazy, wanting an I win button or claiming that they don't want exploration to be difficult.

It won't be difficult either way, that's not what FD are trying to do. They (I'm sure) want it to be more fun so more players do it. It also likely won't be skillful whatever some people want to believe, I mean it's a computer game... It will be more active and engaging though.

You're right, the current ADS provides no game-play, and neither does the exploration process after the honk. It also doesn't let players actually 'discover' a system, just shows them whether there's stuff there to investigate further or not. Game-play that occurs after the honk is what FD are trying to address and make more engaging and fun.
 
But 21st century technology can find generally 'earth-like' worlds from thousands of light-years away. Why wouldn't we be able to find those in 3304 when they are just light-seconds away?

No we cant. After collecting data for years and tons of processing we can guess what may be there. We are not detecting earthlikes thousands of LY away. At all. In ED, we can actually go there in an hour, detect and then scan everythin in a few minutes, including full surface mapping of entire planets.

Still, even though your comparison is miles off, that doesnt even matter. We should discuss how we want the game to be based on what gameplay we like, not based on misunderstanding the state of the art. If you dont like parts of the introduced new ststem, just explain without dragging nasa into it. :)
 
PLEASE Frontier, give us a single 2-ton module that performs both DSS & ADS functions [yesnod]

I understand why you want to grandfather the current modules so not to mess with explorers far away from outfitting, but since you are reducing 3 discovery scanners to one, you could add a new "Advanced Exploration Scanner" to outfitting that is 2 ton module with the same functionality as the two 1 ton modules we currently have! This would be a serious QOL improvement, and it should be trivial to do.

There is precedent for this request, because limpet controllers come in bigger sizes that equate to multiple smaller sized modules. I don't need to fill up three module slots to control 3 limpets, for example.

Please, I beg you on my hands and knees (metaphorically speaking), free up a slot for us explorers who fly smaller ships by offering a combined ADS & DDS in one module!

EDIT

Actual ideas are being lost in the back and forth prattle that has taken over this thread, so I've started a new thread dedicated to this idea, here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/448170-Advanced-Exploration-Scanner


Given their concerns of balance regarding "doubling up" modules, I'd even gladly take a class loss for the ability to have both. So, a Class 3 module that allows you to put both scanners in it. Just limit it to the exploration modules, rather than all modules.

Heck the same idea could be used for limpet controllers. I'd gladly use a Class 3 slot to have two Class 1 Limpet controllers (or a Class 5 to hold two Class 3 or four Class 1, etc...) The decreased performance of each limpet (and wasted potential space) would balance out the added versitility.
 
It is easy to assume & berate, isn't it?

I'm doing neither. The identified problem was that the poster is finding systems which have been sullied by the dead hand of cherry pickers. I told him how to avoid that problem. with hindsight, perhaps I should have added 'and not along an obviously well-travelled path such as directly towards Barnard's Loop' but I was chasing one leg of my pants round the bedroom getting dressed for work at the time I posted :D

If I'd have wanted to berate him I'd have commented on his suggestion.

Edit: Also didn't see OP's reply just above yours - I'm now posting at work which is about the only time I have less time to read a thread properly than whilst getting ready for work....

Im about 6000ly outside the bubble and still coming across sytems where the odd planet has been scanned and nothing else

I don't doubt it, you can go 30K outside it and still find some like that but they get significantly less common the further out you go, other than along the obvious well-traveled routes such as directly from the bubble to Colonia and nearby nebulae.

It's perhaps unfortunate that the current distribution of credit payouts for exploration does tend to favour some kinds of bodies that will also attract some of the more selective scanners (for example I don't know many explorers who would just fly past an earthlike without scanning it regardless of how much it paid) but I can assure you that for many of us, credits are not the major motivation in exploration.

If you head up or down into the neutron star systems you'll also find loads of those where the main star has been scanned and nothing else. Again, some of those will be because before the most recent buff to exploration discovery payouts they were one of the highest paying things to scan. However if you happen across one where I have scanned only the star and nothing else, it will be because I was using the neutron star 'highway' to quickly travel to a distant area and simply had no intention of scanning the entire system to begin with - it's stupid not to scan the star since I'm parked in front of it when I enter the system before lining up for a jump boost but unless something very interesting presents itself, the system won't be one that I'd ever intended to hang around in.

Ultimately you need to accept that there's no requirement on players to scan every body in a system, or at least isn't until this derpy new method comes in. Some explorers have particular interests and are searching primarily for particular kinds of bodies (which contrary to popular belief is not always motivated by credits - I have assets of over four billion so it's not like I'm desperate for credits) so they will scan those and not others.

I know you mentioned that you just started exploring - I guess only time will tell whether your fascination with scanning everything endures past your 20,000th generic snowball orbiting your 10,000th red dwarf or not. It doesn't ultimately matter whether it does or doesn't, there's no right or wrong way to explore - it should be about what interests you as a player and nothing more.

If anything I think you might see more of what people insist on referring to as 'cherry picking' when this update goes live - the devs actually said that the scanners can be set to identify what are considered to be 'high value worlds' and since there will no longer be a requirement to actually fly to the body to detail scan it, I'd expect the players whose main interest in exploration is farming credits from it will love it. No more need to fly 100,000 ls to that pesky secondary star to scan the water worlds orbiting it.
 
Last edited:
Another null argument. Why do you think Sudoku (or chess and hundreds of other games) is so popular. Certainly not because it's so easy, right? To some "gaming" means 99% challenge in the first place. Others seem to consider gaming as a means of distraction (some consider a challenge as distraction as well but that's rather proving my point than yours). Both totally valid approaches but I trust you're certainly intelligent enough to realize that both isn't really compatible and in most cases can't co-exist. Whenever a game tries both the result is a half-baked mishmash that ED suffers already too much and too long from.

I really wish FDev would make a strong decision as to what direction ED actually wants to go so I could decide whether to stay or leave. This approach of "I love you all" isn't going anywhere.

The last episode of Blakes's 7 comes to mind... :(
 
I think that there are three things FD are trying to do with the new exploration stuff.

1. Make it more interactive / engaging.
2. Streamline / remove the need for long SC trips in order to 'discover' bodies in a system.
3. Add more stuff to find.

Right now, it's fair to say that exploration mechanics are passive, and potentially long winded. However, to achieve the above points, there's no need to remove the honk being visually represented.

The new process once the system is shown will satisfy both points one and two, as players will use the new more active scanning mechanics to fully reveal the details of the planets in the system, and won't have to fly there to do it. If point three is valid in a system the player will have the opportunity to make the SC trip to the relevant bodies and undertake another active scan with probes.

Removing the ADS scan's visual results is something that FD presumably felt was a good idea, but the community reaction is mainly about some people pointing out it might be detrimental, and then a few others lambasting them as lazy, wanting an I win button or claiming that they don't want exploration to be difficult.

It won't be difficult either way, that's not what FD are trying to do. They (I'm sure) want it to be more fun so more players do it. It also likely won't be skillful whatever some people want to believe, I mean it's a computer game... It will be more active and engaging though.

You're right, the current ADS provides no game-play, and neither does the exploration process after the honk. It also doesn't let players actually 'discover' a system, just shows them whether there's stuff there to investigate further or not. Game-play that occurs after the honk is what FD are trying to address and make more engaging and fun.

The issue here is that as soon as the honk reveals where the planets are then the new process become a meaningless. We really need to see the time scales involved. If it is taking ages to scan a whole system, then that is an issue and I would agree. If it's a few minutes at most, then it shouldn't be a major problem. It could just be the system needs stream lining a bit.
 
The issue here is that as soon as the honk reveals where the planets are then the new process become a meaningless. We really need to see the time scales involved. If it is taking ages to scan a whole system, then that is an issue and I would agree. If it's a few minutes at most, then it shouldn't be a major problem. It could just be the system needs stream lining a bit.
It doesn't make it meaningless, it just means that some of the proposed functionality would be removed.
It could still be used to scan/search for USS, CZ, Rez, and potentially other yet to be named discoverables to be added to Q4.
Plus it would still be used to do the DSS scan on the ADS discovered planets to reveal the material compositions (and get the first-discovered tag)
 
Back
Top Bottom