News Chapter Four - Exploration Reveal

[Akarana]

I'm really impressed by these changes, and looking forward to trying them out in the beta. The new DSS in particular will make exploration much more engaging, as well as easing the location of interesting surface POIs.

Making USS spawns skill-based discovery is an absolute game-changer and will make what was previously my most hated activity much more interesting.

It's good to know that the new scanning systems will be usable in multi-crew as well. No more sitting in my wingmate's ship, looking at the sysmap and shouting "Go for the last three planets of the third star" into my microphone. You also have the makings of a full Science station role if you build on these mechanics later.

The only reservation I have concerns the ADS. While the new functionality looks excellent for genuine long-distance exploration, it could hamper being able to fly quickly to specific locations when you're not exploring.

For example, say a new Guardian site has been discovered on a moon of a gas giant orbiting the fourth star in this system. As it is uninhabited, there is no nav beacon.

In order to visit the Guardian site, I'd have to use the new scanning tools to find every body in the system first before I could even fly to the moon and map it. This would likely be so time consuming given the number and distance of bodies, it would put me off going to the location.

I would prefer the scanners to work this way:

ADS default mode - honk returns full star information and all planets but only as wireframes with no information, so they can be navigated to easily on the sysmap.

ADS enhanced mode - as per proposal. Interface could be launched from a control or toggled on/off dependent on whether the commander is exploring or just travelling around.

DSS - as per proposal

Thanks for your work on these new exploration tools! A very happy explorer here.

 

[quilvein]

It does sound like an excellent upgrade for............................. explorers and this can be clearly seen here. However, there seems little discussion on how this will affect the ENTIRE rest of the game which is ultimately dependent on the current galaxy/system maps and information. If I picked it up correctly in the stream last night then we will only be able to travel system to system and will have to scan the nav beacon to locate our target planet, station, whatever. That seems unfair if true. If we want additional planet information we will have to use the new scan system, everytime we visit?.

Are there any of the more educated posters out there, or FD, who could offer some guidance for those of us not explorers and who play in multiple ways in the rest of the game as this can affect everything other than just exploration. I wonder how many game players are looking at this and thinking it's ok, only for exploration, doesn't affect me...............

 

[imski]

Question:

Will the DSS probes be affected by gravity? In the sense that the arc of your launches would vary depending on the size, mass and density of the body.

Related to this, could we also have as part of the "first mapped" tag a record of how many probes were used? Apart from giving people an indication of many could be needed (depending on the skill of that first mapper) but could actually be a fun game; "I can map this Class III Gas Giant in 4!"

 

[Bob McBobblehead]

In order to visit the Guardian site, I'd have to use the new scanning tools to find every body in the system first before I could even fly to the moon and map it. This would likely be so time consuming given the number and distance of bodies, it would put me off going to the location.

I would prefer the scanners to work this way:

ADS default mode - honk returns full star information and all planets but only as wireframes with no information, so they can be navigated to easily on the sysmap.

ADS enhanced mode - as per proposal. Interface could be launched from a control or toggled on/off dependent on whether the commander is exploring or just travelling around.

DSS - as per proposal

Thanks for your work on these new exploration tools! A very happy explorer here.

If you know the planet to go to, the distance from star, the type of planet, you could narrow your search down I would of guessed. Search for rocky planets and such and such range.

 

[Lngjohnsilver1]

After reading this post and some of the replies (Sorry TLDR everything) I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks this is pants!

So what I hear is, hey we want you to spend more time fine tuning your scanners to find stuff cos you know in the 4th millennium our AI's cant figure it out! Then after miffing around for 20 minutes to decipher what my scanner is telling me, I get to spend valuable resources punting probes at rings (you have to hit a ring to scan it!!!) and planets! So after an hour of 'gameplay' I find out....there's nothing there. WOOOT its a win!!

err........


hmm epic fail headed our way??? I was thinking of heading off exploring and hanging on to the new update before I went - I better pack my bags and hurry off before it hits, it sounds terrible.

Look exploration is going to be relatively boring..not everyone can find El Dorado after all. But seriously....adding more effort to finding nothing isnt going to impress anyone to do it! Okay so the naysayers will say I'm playing Pony and want an 'easy win' but thats poo. I don't care if it takes time as long as its not NEEDLESS time. Adding more time to the problem isn't helping. It doesn't need to be Doctorate Physics level complicated, but it can be complex and multi-faceted. Its the fun of discovery and cheese trails and mouse hunts that appeal. Minor victories on a greater path and maybe once in a while a clue to a greater story - a larger narrative, a wrecked ship, a downed station, a lost data fragment. What is this, why is it here, what is its purpose and ooohhh whats over there making that strange noise....and how do I reach it???

It aint all about honking ELW's......

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I'm really impressed by these changes, and looking forward to trying them out in the beta. The new DSS in particular will make exploration much more engaging, as well as easing the location of interesting surface POIs.

Making USS spawns skill-based discovery is an absolute game-changer and will make what was previously my most hated activity much more interesting.

It's good to know that the new scanning systems will be usable in multi-crew as well. No more sitting in my wingmate's ship, looking at the galmap and shouting "Go for the last three planets of the third star" into my microphone. You also have the makings of a full Science station role if you build on these mechanics later.

The only reservation I have concerns the ADS. While the new functionality looks excellent for genuine long-distance exploration, it could hamper being able to fly quickly to specific locations when you're not exploring.

For example, say a new Guardian site has been discovered on a moon of a gas giant orbiting the fourth star in this system. As it is uninhabited, there is no nav beacon.



In order to visit the Guardian site, I'd have to use the new scanning tools to find every body in the system first before I could even fly to the moon and map it. This would likely be so time consuming given the number and distance of bodies, it would put me off going to the location.

I would prefer the scanners to work this way:

ADS default mode - honk returns full star information and all planets but only as wireframes with no information, so they can be navigated to easily on the sysmap.

ADS enhanced mode - as per proposal. Interface could be launched from a control or toggled on/off dependent on whether the commander is exploring or just travelling around.

DSS - as per proposal

Thanks for your work on these new exploration tools! A very happy explorer here.

The new ADS will also tell you if there is anything worth investigating before needing to supercruse over to it. This should save you a lot of time depending on how long it takes to fully scan a system.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

After reading this post and some of the replies (Sorry TLDR everything) I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks this is pants!

So what I hear is, hey we want you to spend more time fine tuning your scanners to find stuff cos you know in the 4th millennium our AI's cant figure it out! Then after miffing around for 20 minutes to decipher what my scanner is telling me, I get to spend valuable resources punting probes at rings (you have to hit a ring to scan it!!!) and planets! So after an hour of 'gameplay' I find out....there's nothing there. WOOOT its a win!!

err........


hmm epic fail headed our way??? I was thinking of heading off exploring and hanging on to the new update before I went - I better pack my bags and hurry off before it hits, it sounds terrible.

Look exploration is going to be relatively boring..not everyone can find El Dorado after all. But seriously....adding more effort to finding nothing isnt going to impress anyone to do it! Okay so the naysayers will say I'm playing Pony and want an 'easy win' but thats poo. I don't care if it takes time as long as its not NEEDLESS time. Adding more time to the problem isn't helping. It doesn't need to be Doctorate Physics level complicated, but it can be complex and multi-faceted. Its the fun of discovery and cheese trails and mouse hunts that appeal. Minor victories on a greater path and maybe once in a while a clue to a greater story - a larger narrative, a wrecked ship, a downed station, a lost data fragment. What is this, why is it here, what is its purpose and ooohhh whats over there making that strange noise....and how do I reach it???

It aint all about honking ELW's......

You will find out if there is anything worth investigating before sending probes out with the Honk and scan. Hopefully it won't take 20 minutes to do a whole system.

 

[Whitmann]

The new ADS will also tell you if there is anything worth investigating before needing to supercruse over to it.

What "worth" do you mean here?

 

[Zieman]

I would prefer the scanners to work this way:

ADS default mode - honk returns full star information and all planets but only as wireframes with no information, so they can be navigated to easily on the sysmap.

ADS enhanced mode - as per proposal. Interface could be launched from a control or toggled on/off dependent on whether the commander is exploring or just travelling around.

DSS - as per proposal

Gets my vote. [up]

 

[Lngjohnsilver1]

I'm on GMT +12 so I haven't watched the stream but I hope to GD your'e right sir / madam.....

 

[Alfred J Kwak]

I'm on GMT +12 so I haven't watched the stream but I hope to GD your'e right sir / madam.....

Please tell us if its any good as your in the future. seems that gnosis failed jump was also on galnet before it even left.

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

Couldn’t watch the livestream , just caught up on YT & haven’t got time to read all this thread so apologies if I’m repeating others. A couple of thoughts came to mind:
1) will permit locked planets (e.g. Titan ) be mappable by the probes, or will this somehow be barred?- needs to be a logical reason to retain immersion
2) this mechanism seems very interesting for pure exploration, & looking forward to using it on DW2 expedition, but having just got to Colonia for the first time (i.e. all systems new to me) & running data delivery missions to build my local reputation I’ve picked up a couple of psychopathic anacondas intent on preventing me. At present I can enter a new system, honk & get quick display of all system bodies together with the mission destination so I can get a head start on the assassins; however having to scan & analyse the returns will slow me down to the point of my demise. I think the new mechanism needs a bit more thought for mission-related play.

 

[Spaceman Si]

After reading what detail is available from the devs, and watching the Livestream last night, I'm more convinced that the ADS change in function is not one that I will enjoy or want.

At it's most fundamental, it doesn't add anything to the game-play. It isn't going to reveal anything different in a system to what we could see with the current ADS, it just adds a layer of time-consumption to achieve the same result. I can see it being mildly interesting the first time of use, and irritatingly cumbersome by about the 10th time.

It seems to encourage not actually flying your ship, which to me is one of the most enjoyable parts of exploring: Travelling to distant objects and resolving them with the current DSS scanner. Instead, it appears to be possible (and indeed obilgatory) to travel nowhere on arrival and spend time looking at waveforms to attempt to work out what is there.

In effect, this is taking away the current useful facility of knowing the system layout immediately that helps me direct my game time and replaces it with a time-consuming chore that I have no choice in completing if I want to see the whole system.
I would rather fly my ship to objects to scan them thoroughly, rather than not flying anywhere and conducting tedious scanning activity in the vicinity of the arrival star. For me, this will reduce the enjoyment of the beautifully constructed systems, and make me far less inclined to travel around a system when I am there.

I'm looking for the unusual or interesting bodies to go and look at; the massively ringed worlds or stars, the close-orbit mini-systems of worlds, the gas-giants with eccentric / retrograde moons, the binary systems with unusual apsides, multi-barycentre systems etc. Such locations provide awe-inspiring photo opportunities, and it is primarily this reason that I explore now. The sights and feelings of being in particular locations are what draw me into the game now - I've gazed into the emptiness beyoned the Perseus fade, where only the Magellanic clouds shine in the darkness. I've sat in my SRV surrounded by geysers illuminated by nothing but the glow of a nebula, with a ringed gas-giant rising above the mountains beyond. I've marvelled at the air-glow surrounding the first Earth-Like that I discovered. Such things have no credit value, they are priceless. A fully populated system map on scan is a key component to being able to search out such locations, and hiding what was once freely available will no doubt deny finding some of them.

In summary, I see the ADS as adding nothing to the game but a layer of obfuscation and unavoidable busy-work, which will diminish my enjoyment of game-time.

The probes element of the DSS, on the other hand, is a genuine enhancement, and one which introduces both skill and anticipation excitement of what the probe will reveal.

I would have liked to have seen the ADS and DSS remain as they are now, but with the DSS having the probes added - that would be a genuine addition to quality time in game-play rather than a mix of time-sink and time-saver.

 

[LeoBartlet]

Is it not possible to have the existing system with limits on the credit earning potential and also the information you get from honking. While leaving the new system as entirely optional for those who want to explore more thoroughly.

 

[gooddoc]

After reading what detail is available from the devs, and watching the Livestream last night, I'm more convinced that the ADS change in function is not one that I will enjoy or want.

At it's most fundamental, it doesn't add anything to the game-play. It isn't going to reveal anything different in a system to what we could see with the current ADS, it just adds a layer of time-consumption to achieve the same result. I can see it being mildly interesting the first time of use, and irritatingly cumbersome by about the 10th time.

It seems to encourage not actually flying your ship, which to me is one of the most enjoyable parts of exploring: Travelling to distant objects and resolving them with the current DSS scanner. Instead, it appears to be possible (and indeed obilgatory) to travel nowhere on arrival and spend time looking at waveforms to attempt to work out what is there.

In effect, this is taking away the current useful facility of knowing the system layout immediately that helps me direct my game time and replaces it with a time-consuming chore that I have no choice in completing if I want to see the whole system.
I would rather fly my ship to objects to scan them thoroughly, rather than not flying anywhere and conducting tedious scanning activity in the vicinity of the arrival star. For me, this will reduce the enjoyment of the beautifully constructed systems, and make me far less inclined to travel around a system when I am there.

I'm looking for the unusual or interesting bodies to go and look at; the massively ringed worlds or stars, the close-orbit mini-systems of worlds, the gas-giants with eccentric / retrograde moons, the binary systems with unusual apsides, multi-barycentre systems etc. Such locations provide awe-inspiring photo opportunities, and it is primarily this reason that I explore now. The sights and feelings of being in particular locations are what draw me into the game now - I've gazed into the emptiness beyoned the Perseus fade, where only the Magellanic clouds shine in the darkness. I've sat in my SRV surrounded by geysers illuminated by nothing but the glow of a nebula, with a ringed gas-giant rising above the mountains beyond. I've marvelled at the air-glow surrounding the first Earth-Like that I discovered. Such things have no credit value, they are priceless. A fully populated system map on scan is a key component to being able to search out such locations, and hiding what was once freely available will no doubt deny finding some of them.

In summary, I see the ADS as adding nothing to the game but a layer of obfuscation and unavoidable busy-work, which will diminish my enjoyment of game-time.

The probes element of the DSS, on the other hand, is a genuine enhancement, and one which introduces both skill and anticipation excitement of what the probe will reveal.

I would have liked to have seen the ADS and DSS remain as they are now, but with the DSS having the probes added - that would be a genuine addition to quality time in game-play rather than a mix of time-sink and time-saver.

Spot on CMDR + Rep

 

[Xenia_K]

Dear fellow Cdrs,

IMHO these last 126 pages are stuffed with wildly mixed up and incorrect information, so a short re-cap:

1. current Stellar Scanners (BDS, IDS, ADS) are merged into one FSS only.

2. new FSS "Honk" does not insta-show astronomical objects on Sysmap any more, but in a 2d grid (Analyser-screen) which is defined by distance versus electromagnetic intensity (the latter also enables Cdrs to identify the Type of object by its specific spectrum prior of detail-scanning !).

3. Detail-scanning (which until now is done with the DSS) becomes a part of the functionality of the new FSS - hence Explorers which want to continue their current style, gain an extra slot , and, as You can do that analysis from Your entry-point, the scanning-process as a whole becomes much more quick, as You do not any longer have to fly to the body to do the DSS - hence making those systems with b-/c-Komponents some 300.000 Lsec away much more accessible for exploration

4. After scan of a body with the new FSS the body is shown on Sysmap and the current surface-map is available.

5. The new DSS (and its probes) is needed only if You want to get pinpoint-markers for special (persistent) POI, such as volcanic- or bio-sites, the new "phenomena" etc., if You don´t want to use it, You still can eyeball.....
(at least thats the way I understood the OP)



edit:
6. the new DSS (proposal to FD, call it Detail Mapping Scanner), will be modifiable by Eng to different sizes of probe-storage

 

[Sepp]

Yet another question for the devs.

Once the initial ads scan (or honk) has been done, do the orbital lines show up?

If so then pilots could quickly make a sharpish dash to say the third planet or whatever if they need to.

All well and good for those players who choose to fly with orbital lines enabled. What about those who prefer not to? Once again "play the game as you want to - by which we mean, as we intend - or suffer".

 

[gooddoc]

I can't see why we can't have both.

Then CMDR's have a choice of either 'honking' & then looking at the system map with all the Planets shown as now....

....or 'honking' then NOT looking at the System Map & then discovering the planets as shown by FD......everyone's happy.....surely??

I'd still use the new ADS by tuning into the Planets that look interesting in the System Map.

I'm more likely to NOT use the ADS if the proposed system goes ahead, then it'll simply jump, honk, ADS, quick look at energy patterns, No! jump.

 

[BDelacroix]

Buried in all of these posts, I have an actual question.

How, if at all, will the different class sensor modules come into play? Will they continue to be mostly expensive ballast or will they have some effect on the DSS/ADS?

 

[Marc_Hicks]

What "worth" do you mean here?

Points of Interest, Material Content.....that kind of thing. The resolution mechanic reveals what used to only be revealed by the DSS once you were closer than 1000 light seconds of the planet, less than 100 if it was a rocky world.