News Chapter Four - Exploration Reveal

If it was up to me, I'd love for ED to be a hard-core realistic sim, but I guess lots of players would just quit :p

You have my vote! I've got NMS when I'm in the mood for an "easy mode arcade game" space sim. And there's Space Engine for everyone who wants insta-honk, insta-travel exploration of the Milky Way galaxy.
 
Well I would suggest to wait for the actual beta before you label anything with "grind", "awesome" etc. All we have now is some written description and 2 screenshots :)

Pretty much where I'm at with it all. I've yet to see any actual detail Beyond that, let alone any further improvement to exploration. I remain skeptical, and probably will until the release. I like the ideas so far, just don't see it all being a "game changer".
 
It was my second sentence, and what I was driving at was that to reveal the system map would seem to require far more time to achieve with the new ADS.

As for getting the tag and the landables information, certainly it seems to be quicker to get that from the new mechanism, but that is not my point. Currently, the ADS scan and system map population provides the framework for further travel to scan items of interest with the DSS, which is an optional process (and one which involves actually going to the object of interest to reveal it). The proposed ADS scan provides no initial information about the system layout at all, and discourages travel to objects to obtain details about them, because it appears to be possible to gain all the information about any object you wish by staying in one place.

I always have the greatest of respect for commanders who tag 300Kls distant objects at the moment, because I know they have made a conscious decision to go there to scan and obtain the tag. There would appear to be little merit in obtaining a first discovered tag on a distant object from the vicinity of the arrival star, but that is just my view. Perhaps the more meritorious tag in future will be seen to be the "first mapped" one instead.

Like all things new we will have to adapt to what comes. Lets wait and see how it works first before dumping on it. To me, if it takes a few minutes to scan a large system, then i'm all okay with that. If it takes 30 minutes, then it becomes an issue.

While the first discovered tags wll be easier, people will still have the first mapped tags to go after in the hard to reach places.

At the moment my main issues are that the HUD seems to be a complete screen like the galaxy map and the system map. I would much prefer if they were a large pop up. I would also like the system map and galaxy map as a large pop up too.
 
Regarding an earlier suggestion, I think a new third tag could read "First Recorded Landing By". If the historic data is on the server, then great, else it's just like the other tags - first to turn in the data gets the credit.

If you launch probes at an inhabited planet, it should have satellite defenses that shoot them down. You should probably have missiles launched at you as well. Or just have the scanner refuse to launch/waste probes on already mapped bodies (easier, but not as fun).

Is resource data now handed to you on a silver platter? IIRC, with unexplored planets you need to fly to them and use the DSS to reveal resources. It now appears you can do this with the discovery scanner from thousands of Ls away (according to the released image). How is this possible with reflected light? Meanwhile, the DSS, which can launch probes down to the planet surface, only reveals persistent POIs and mining hot spots in rings? Did I get that wrong?

I think the DS should only reveal the planet type, size, temperature, and etc. Also maybe annomolies that can be checked out if desired. The DSS should map the planet, find persistent POIs, and reveal resources.

You should sprinkle some interesting persistent POIs among the rocky and icy planets and moons to encourage more complete exploration. Some that only show up with using the DSS (no hint from DS).

I'd like to add my support for the DS scanning the NAV beacon from SC. You should only have to drop into the NAV beacon if you aren't carrying a scanner.
 
I still would very much like an in universe explanation for all this. The tasks we're being asked to do in this new system are something that could easily be accomplished by 21st century computers. The desktop we play Elite on is honestly capable of analyzing signals and pointing sensors at them. Why can't 31st century computers do it?

I think this is really important because to me it seems to be an abandonment of the sim aspect of Elite Dangerous. Why even have a galaxy to scale and limited jump ranges if what we really want is people playing arcady minigames all the time that don't make sense with the technology that exists? I understand that some things need to be abandoned for the sake of playability but this doesn't seem to be it.
 
Perhaps the more meritorious tag in future will be seen to be the "first mapped" one instead.
Or perhaps as I have suggested, a "first recorded landing" tag. Would you risk landing on a high-g world with all your exploration data?

Seeing how you can discover planets with telescopes, I guess I don't have much of a problem with being able to do it with a scanner, but it does feel cheap.
 
Regarding an earlier suggestion, I think a new third tag could read "First Recorded Landing By". If the historic data is on the server, then great, else it's just like the other tags - first to turn in the data gets the credit.

If you launch probes at an inhabited planet, it should have satellite defenses that shoot them down. You should probably have missiles launched at you as well. Or just have the scanner refuse to launch/waste probes on already mapped bodies (easier, but not as fun).

Is resource data now handed to you on a silver platter? IIRC, with unexplored planets you need to fly to them and use the DSS to reveal resources. It now appears you can do this with the discovery scanner from thousands of Ls away (according to the released image). How is this possible with reflected light? Meanwhile, the DSS, which can launch probes down to the planet surface, only reveals persistent POIs and mining hot spots in rings? Did I get that wrong?

I think the DS should only reveal the planet type, size, temperature, and etc. Also maybe annomolies that can be checked out if desired. The DSS should map the planet, find persistent POIs, and reveal resources.

You should sprinkle some interesting persistent POIs among the rocky and icy planets and moons to encourage more complete exploration. Some that only show up with using the DSS (no hint from DS).

I'd like to add my support for the DS scanning the NAV beacon from SC. You should only have to drop into the NAV beacon if you aren't carrying a scanner.

"First Landed" is an excellent proposal. I have suggested it myself in the past. It would encourage and reward planetary landings.

I'm not saying this has to be done all the time while scanning systems, but it's nice to know that you are the first person to land on a particular planet, when you do.
 
All well and good for those players who choose to fly with orbital lines enabled. What about those who prefer not to? Once again "play the game as you want to - by which we mean, as we intend - or suffer".

I would imagine they will only show if you have orbital lines turned on in the settings. Maybe you could ask the devs yourself instead making stuff up.
 
Well I would suggest to wait for the actual beta before you label anything with "grind", "awesome" etc. All we have now is some written description and 2 screenshots :)

Agreed. We saw a bit of UI design and a few mechanics explanations. It's possibly a good direction but we all know the devil is in the details and what is out there for us to find. That's what will drive this into the fun department. If theres actually anything to be explored.
 
After reading what detail is available from the devs, and watching the Livestream last night, I'm more convinced that the ADS change in function is not one that I will enjoy or want.

At it's most fundamental, it doesn't add anything to the game-play. It isn't going to reveal anything different in a system to what we could see with the current ADS, it just adds a layer of time-consumption to achieve the same result. I can see it being mildly interesting the first time of use, and irritatingly cumbersome by about the 10th time.

It seems to encourage not actually flying your ship, which to me is one of the most enjoyable parts of exploring: Travelling to distant objects and resolving them with the current DSS scanner. Instead, it appears to be possible (and indeed obilgatory) to travel nowhere on arrival and spend time looking at waveforms to attempt to work out what is there.

In effect, this is taking away the current useful facility of knowing the system layout immediately that helps me direct my game time and replaces it with a time-consuming chore that I have no choice in completing if I want to see the whole system.
I would rather fly my ship to objects to scan them thoroughly, rather than not flying anywhere and conducting tedious scanning activity in the vicinity of the arrival star. For me, this will reduce the enjoyment of the beautifully constructed systems, and make me far less inclined to travel around a system when I am there.

I'm looking for the unusual or interesting bodies to go and look at; the massively ringed worlds or stars, the close-orbit mini-systems of worlds, the gas-giants with eccentric / retrograde moons, the binary systems with unusual apsides, multi-barycentre systems etc. Such locations provide awe-inspiring photo opportunities, and it is primarily this reason that I explore now. The sights and feelings of being in particular locations are what draw me into the game now - I've gazed into the emptiness beyoned the Perseus fade, where only the Magellanic clouds shine in the darkness. I've sat in my SRV surrounded by geysers illuminated by nothing but the glow of a nebula, with a ringed gas-giant rising above the mountains beyond. I've marvelled at the air-glow surrounding the first Earth-Like that I discovered. Such things have no credit value, they are priceless. A fully populated system map on scan is a key component to being able to search out such locations, and hiding what was once freely available will no doubt deny finding some of them.

In summary, I see the ADS as adding nothing to the game but a layer of obfuscation and unavoidable busy-work, which will diminish my enjoyment of game-time.

The probes element of the DSS, on the other hand, is a genuine enhancement, and one which introduces both skill and anticipation excitement of what the probe will reveal.

I would have liked to have seen the ADS and DSS remain as they are now, but with the DSS having the probes added - that would be a genuine addition to quality time in game-play rather than a mix of time-sink and time-saver.

A very well expressed and cogent argument although, for reasons I've stated elsewhere, I remain to be convinced that the currently suggested 'probe' mechanic is a good move.
 
Looking forward to many of the improvements, but the new ADS gives me pause.

If you lose the awe and beauty factor that drew me so deep into this game in the first place, and replace it with a bunch of 2 tone jiggly lines, then I'm afraid we have a show stopper folks. Its that simple.
 
Question: Will there be "presets" you can store in the new scanner, so I could select EM of mid level at a range of 100-500ls and then store this as a preset filter to apply?

Question: Does the scanning tool "remember" what you were doing if you do happen to flick out of it for some reason? ie. you had tweaked EM and range to certain values but then had to go back to main screen cos you were too deep in suns corona and might crash, or interdicted by a pesky pirate, or had to do a wee or summat?

Question: If the system map is built up as you discover planets, does it show them in that view with gaps - ie. inferring that other stuff is there?/ Or does it squash down display to only show the sun and the 2 Gas Giants you have scanned, but no placeholder spaces before these devices.

Question: If you are in a Wing and doing scanning, do all ships in Wing get the updated planet you scanned/discovered shown in their displays too? What happens if you leave wing and rejoin due to Real Life or connectivity issues?

Question: Do you have to stay in the Wing until you cash in to benefit from the discovery, or can you Wing up in multiple sessions and game tracks which things you helped discover

Question: USS Spawns, do they now appear in set locations in the system and then time out and re-appear in same location, or do they appear in random locations and respawn elsewhere randomly? Ie. will there be a skill to be learned to determine where certain types of USS's appear?
 
"First Landed" is an excellent proposal. I have suggested it myself in the past. It would encourage and reward planetary landings.

I'm not saying this has to be done all the time while scanning systems, but it's nice to know that you are the first person to land on a particular planet, when you do.

I genuinely think that if this could be implemented (via my planting a beacon idea) and the data captured by the commander who landed there first was shared with anyone else "honking" the system you would have a great dynamic here. You'd know that someone had been there first, and get the benefit of their scanning and exploring time. Over time jumping to an "Unknown" system close to the bubble would get you more information more quickly because more people will have visited and done the exploration already. The further out you go, the more work there is to do, which makes actual sense, rather than 1000s of CMDRs going to the same "unknown" system and having to discover everything all over again. If you limited the amount of data shared in the beacon to position, material make up, orbit, number of POIs or something there's still an incentive to visit somewhere, while helping other explorers from spending time exploring something of no interest.
 
Perhaps your computer voice could tell you that the scan has been successfully completed... it would happen that way for Kirk and Picard, the silly noises make it sound like cooking or making a sword in skyrim

Yes please. Put the Covas to good use - and I'm a bit tired of (especially) the HONK.
Cheers
DZ
 
To all the people who have replied, reassuring me that if FDev add new stellar body types to find, then my sadness will turn to joy, I would like to say that you are 100% right. Not only that, but atmospheric landing, ELW/AW landing etc will also bring this home in a great way. So thanks for that and I am looking forward!

Clip...

They have said (and also on the live stream) there are new things to find. No elaboration, just a fast Yes to the question when asked if there are new things to find.
 
Looking forward to many of the improvements, but the new ADS gives me pause.

If you lose the awe and beauty factor that drew me so deep into this game in the first place, and replace it with a bunch of 2 tone jiggly lines, then I'm afraid we have a show stopper folks. Its that simple.

How does it do that? Honestly, if it's sights you want with this you simply get an earlier view of what to expect of a planet and if you like it you can still go there and enjoy it, nothing is removed there. Just removes a lot of the guesswork.
 
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