Chieftain Size and perhaps other specs

[YinYin]

while i do like the option that multicrew uses the scanner - up to now i have only BAD experience with how badly that was implemented.
eg. as helm i have ZERO visuals that my crew is in range for a scan, is doing a scan - or has finished performing a scan.

I remember hearing the scanning sounds from a gunner using it when multi crew was released, but they are gone now.

Generally I just have grade 5 fast scanners though and know their range. So if I see my gunner targeting something within range I know they'll be done in 2 seconds.

 

[Mengy]

AFAIK beagle point was discovered by a commander going out with a sidewinder, and i don't know if he even had an advanced scanner, due to the lack of todays money-making schemes.

Incorrect. Beagle Point, what used to be known as Ceeckia ZQ-L c24-0, was first discovered by CMDR Erimus in an Asp Explorer carrying both scanners. No Sidewinder could have even reached it back then due to FSD boosts not existing.

 

[lenna]

Any ship should have "Variants"

Why? I do not see ANY good reason for this to be the case.

We have quite a wide variety of ships to choose from with different options - sure, a lot of them can be used as multirole vessels but normally there are compromises for using them in the roles they were not designed for.

I think the fundamental issue is less to do with the ships per se but rather that at least some expect every ship to be useful to them regardless of what they want to use it for. People in general need to learn to accept that not every ship (or piece of kit) in the ED will necessarily be useful to them personally. That does not make any given ship pointless nor does it mean there should be an alternative added specifically tailored for other activities when one is added that can not be adequately equipped for what they want to do with it.

WRT the Python, it does not need "variants" it is an excellent balanced multi-role vessel in it's own right.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

Not quite - You are ignoring my point that it (the Detailed Surface Scanner) is essentially a requirement for serious explorers and I hope FD are going to expand on it's relevance with the updated explorer mechanics they have planned.

I'm not ignoring it, I'm disagreeing with it.

1) The DSS makes you more money - Objective fact, we both agree
2) The DSS gives you more trivia about a planet / ring, none of which affects gameplay, other than what you can also find without a DSS but a bit more effort - Objective fact

But

3) The DSS is required for "serious" explorers - Subjective opinion

I disagree. For the reason that it doesn't give you anything, that actually affects exploration gameplay, that you can not get otherwise.

You're free to disagree, of course, but you should support that subjective claim with something if you want to be taken seriously by those who don't already agree.

Someone can go exploring, and be "serious" about it (whatever that means), without a DSS.

 

[lenna]

3) The DSS is required for "serious" explorers - Subjective opinion

I disagree. For the reason that it doesn't give you anything, that actually affects exploration gameplay, that you can not get otherwise.

It has been a while since I have ran without a DSS, and the material information was not part of the details when I started to run with a DSS but even back then I decided it was an essential exploration tool (specific original rationale has been lost in time). If you are going to explore, then you may as well make as much profit as possible from doing so in order to cover your costs (first discovery bonuses are far from guaranteed).

Personally I think it is you that needs to substantiate your claim, you say it does not give you anything that you can not get otherwise - IMO you need to be more specific if you want to be taken seriously. Your opinion is just as subjective, some agree with me others with you but you seem to be dismissing the significance of the profit benefits of (L3 v L2 scans) as well as the significance of having the additional information from the scan.

It is however pretty off-topic in the main where the Chieftain is concerned since it is obviously not meant as an exploration vessel.

 

[Ozram]

I'm not ignoring it, I'm disagreeing with it.

1) The DSS makes you more money - Objective fact, we both agree
2) The DSS gives you more trivia about a planet / ring, none of which affects gameplay, other than what you can also find without a DSS but a bit more effort - Objective fact

But

3) The DSS is required for "serious" explorers - Subjective opinion

I disagree. For the reason that it doesn't give you anything, that actually affects exploration gameplay, that you can not get otherwise.

You're free to disagree, of course, but you should support that subjective claim with something if you want to be taken seriously by those who don't already agree.

Someone can go exploring, and be "serious" about it (whatever that means), without a DSS.

Not all DSS info is trivial. Mat list is useful.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

Yeah, the mat list is the only useful thing from the DSS, but you can also get that from tooling around a surface in your SRV - basic experimentation. It takes a lot longer, but it is doable, and it is the only in-game benefit (aside from the aforementioned money, and engineering effects I guess) of the DSS.

The profit increase is sometimes handy, but it's far from "essential". "Serious" explorers don't have to explore for profit, and not having a DSS isn't going to turn any real exploration trip into a financial loss. Personally, I also see it optional for me because at this point in the game, money is functionally irrelevant.

Aside from that the DSS currently only gives you extra in-game trivia about a planet that doesn't affect gameplay at all. There's nothing you can "explore" or "discover" with the use of a DSS that you can't without (aside from the aforementioned non-play-effecting trivia), therefore it's not "required" for exploration.

"Required" means "you can not accomplish the task without this". You can obviously and self-evidently explore without a DSS.

All that's "required" for long-range exploration is a ship, a fuel scoop, and a basic discovery scanner. You can get to Beagle Point with that, and you can make plenty of discoveries along the way, and do a lot of exploration. Everything else beyond that just makes it varying degrees of easier, more profitable, or allows to have to be less perfect in your flying.

But yeah, this is getting off topic.

/Gonna explore in my Chieftain though

//So again, for emphasis - "Required" means "you can not accomplish the task without this". You can obviously and self-evidently explore without a DSS.

 

[Morbad]

I'm not ignoring it, I'm disagreeing with it.

1) The DSS makes you more money - Objective fact, we both agree
2) The DSS gives you more trivia about a planet / ring, none of which affects gameplay, other than what you can also find without a DSS but a bit more effort - Objective fact

But

3) The DSS is required for "serious" explorers - Subjective opinion

I disagree. For the reason that it doesn't give you anything, that actually affects exploration gameplay, that you can not get otherwise.

You're free to disagree, of course, but you should support that subjective claim with something if you want to be taken seriously by those who don't already agree.

Someone can go exploring, and be "serious" about it (whatever that means), without a DSS.

I consider a DSS and an SRV bay as critical for an exploration ship.

The info the DSS provides isn't always trivial and much of it isn't divinable without extreme work. Ring composition, and materials on the surface aren't too hard to do, but are much slower, while things like the orbital parameters (things you need to know if you want to ride through a dwarf's jets, for example) can be almost impossible to discover otherwise (excessively time consuming and tedious).

Regardless, the only thing I'd have to leave off a Chieftain explorer that I'd really like to take, ideally, is an AFMU or shields.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

I consider a DSS and an SRV bay as critical for an exploration ship.

The info the DSS provides isn't always trivial and much of it isn't divinable without extreme work. Ring composition, and materials on the surface aren't too hard to do, but are much slower, while things like the orbital parameters (things you need to know if you want to ride through a dwarf's jets, for example) can be almost impossible to discover otherwise (excessively time consuming and tedious).

Regardless, the only thing I'd have to leave off a Chieftain explorer that I'd really like to take, ideally, is an AFMU or shields.

AND that, is another request to put "AFMU" into the same level as "SCB": beeing able to put it into a military slot

 

[YinYin]

AND that, is another request to put "AFMU" into the same level as "SCB": beeing able to put it into a military slot

Yes please. I wanna be able to patch up the module reinforcement in my to be combat mining prospector Chieftan. Won't have room for that otherwise.

 

[lenna]

Not sure I agree with the AFMU being considered Military slot category equipment, but would not object to it either.

An AFMU is on the any role "nice to have" list - shields, fuel scoop, DS, DSS, and SRV bay fall into the essentials category for me. I would consider the Fuel Scoop, DSS, and SRV negotiable in my build decisions if I do not have room for all three, the other two essentials are non-negotiable must haves.

An FSD Interdictor would be a better Military slot category equipment candidate IMO.

 

[Starwolfe]

AFMU is a utilitarian use, not a combat use item like SCbs or HRP/MRPs which directly effect immediate survival.

AFMUs typically are used to repair a damaged subsystem and do not often get used in combat due to the clumsy way it works.

 

[YinYin]

An AFMU is on the any role "nice to have" list

AFMU is essential to super charging.

AFMU is a utilitarian use, not a combat use item like SCbs or HRP/MRPs which directly effect immediate survival.

AFMUs typically are used to repair a damaged subsystem and do not often get used in combat due to the clumsy way it works.

AFMU repairs module reinforcements 10 times faster than any other module type. It can thus inflate your module protection and integrity via synthesis indefinitely, effects immediate survival and isn't clumsy.

 

[Mengy]

Not sure I agree with the AFMU being considered Military slot category equipment, but would not object to it either.

Yeah, the AFMU really doesn't belong in a military slot, that just doesn't seem right to me.

Fact is that the Chieftain is just a ship designed with a very limited scope: that of a pure combat ship. There are many other pure combat ships in the game, this is just one more, no matter how disappointing that is to people like me who were hoping for something with more flexibility.

 

[Toffmeister]

Fact is that the Chieftain is just a ship designed with a very limited scope: that of a pure combat ship. There are many other pure combat ships in the game, this is just one more, no matter how disappointing that is to people like me who were hoping for something with more flexibility.

It's worse than you think, the BigChe shows how constipated the Ship designers are. The bubble is far larger than when (for example) the Python was introduced, 2700 I believe from the wiki page, and it has undergone few changes in all that time. But now we have Colonia, and the trouble out in the Plieades, pretty soon we are going to have to look at the Col70 area too. Yet they bring out a ship that has maybe a two system jump at best! Hardly a rapid response ship if it has to dock every 4 jumps.
We have after all this time been effectively Handed a Model T Ford of a spaceship.

If Car producers of today used the same outlook as the Shipbuilders of ED, then the adverts would all say "Buy the Python, it's the same as it has ever been." They have never thought to upgrade, never thought to swap a few bits about and add a fin, then charge an additional 5 mill for the 3304 model. The shipbuilders have not noticed that their basic ships are in fact worthless, and only after the customer has gutted it is it actually spaceworthy and fit for purpose.

The Chief is a niche ship for pew-pew only. Good looking, but a good example of style over substance too. I make no apology for expecting more from a modern design.

 

[ALIEN ORIGINS]

where kan i buy this near allen hub i have 2 ships gone because of betta 3

 

[lenna]

where kan i buy this near allen hub i have 2 ships gone because of betta 3

Only available in the Horizon's Beta which should spawn you at a station in Wyrd where ANY required ship and equipment can be bought plus the local engineer should be able to satisfy all your engineering needs.

As for the Chieftain, in the Beta it seems to be usable from an exploration perspective - enough universal slots for Shields, SRV, Fuel Scoop, DSS and DS - but no cargo while carrying that lot. If you can use an FDL as an explorer then you should be able to use the Chieftain as one too - better jump range though.

See here for the Beta testing discussion of the Chieftain.

 

[Mephane]

Yet they bring out a ship that has maybe a two system jump at best! Hardly a rapid response ship if it has to dock every 4 jumps.

As it happens, I proposed that all ships should have a dedicated fuel scoop slot (additional to their current slots) because no ship is effectively viable without a fuel scoop in one form or another (be it that you switch to a travelling ship that has a scoop, then use ship transfer to "pull" you combat ship after you, be it that you switch loadouts before travelling, then transfer the equipment left behind back to you).

If Car producers of today used the same outlook as the Shipbuilders of ED, then the adverts would all say "Buy the Python, it's the same as it has ever been." They have never thought to upgrade, never thought to swap a few bits about and add a fin, then charge an additional 5 mill for the 3304 model. The shipbuilders have not noticed that their basic ships are in fact worthless, and only after the customer has gutted it is it actually spaceworthy and fit for purpose.

We don't know that. It might very well be that the design has been overhauled again and again and was much worse when it was first released.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Not sure I agree with the AFMU being considered Military slot category equipment, but would not object to it either.

An AFMU is on the any role "nice to have" list - shields, fuel scoop, DS, DSS, and SRV bay fall into the essentials category for me. I would consider the Fuel Scoop, DSS, and SRV negotiable in my build decisions if I do not have room for all three, the other two essentials are non-negotiable must haves.

An FSD Interdictor would be a better Military slot category equipment candidate IMO.

For explo ships only four are essential: Fuel Scoop, both scanners are SRV. With dual sticks landing without shields is perfectly doable.