Code action against CoR

[Powderpanic]

It's not quicker and easier to maintain a 24/7 vigil with enough players to cover every instance on every platform than it is to run some meds in yourself. And if you destroy enough clean ships you'll just end up with a lockdown instead of an outbreak, which you will need to clear with PvE bounty hunting...

The playing field is hardly level when PvP groups face PvE groups in open either. One side is always going to have an advantage depending on whether or not there is direct PvP. It just happens that this particular game was built primarily around PvE, and like any game it tends to offer advantages to those who focus on the core gameplay.

No its totally true, PVP groups have access to special ships and other features that PVE players themselves do not have access to... /s

What you have here is knowledge from people who learned to play the game better than others and excuses from the people who hid from that skill curve.

Flame away but that is why there is so much QQ on this forums about gweefers and unfair game play.

Some people just need to accept they need to git gud and stop making excuses.

Admittedly FDEV did a terrible job at designing a multiplayer game. I think in some of their lies/marketing they described the game as an MMO

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Again true but as a very simple example, if I wanted to stop outbreak in my system what would happen if I destroyed every ship bringing biowaste in, but protected every ship taking it out and bringing meds in?

Yes it still takes a PvE component but PvP would if 100% successful on achieving that goal be what won the day quickly and easily.
…

If you want to stop an outbreak state, then you need to deliver medicines. Everything else is a distraction.

While destroying all players delivering biowaste could theoretically stop the "outbreak bucket" to get filled, it can't drain it. Practically it's impossible to control a system and to prevent 100% of the biowaste deliveries - even if everybody plays in open mode.
And even if you manage to prevent 100% of the biowast deliveries that wouldn't stop the outbreak state. You need to PvE - medicine deliveries - to fight the PvE BGS state "outbreak".
And shortly afterwards you will have to PvE to counter the BGS state "lockdown" as you caused your faction into that state by killing clean CMDRs.

Every minute you spend waiting for a biowaste delivering CMDR you are in fact hurting your faction by not delivering medicines. Every clean CMDR you kill increases the chance of a lockdown of your supported faction.

…
Sure if they decide to attack a PvE group, that PvE group should feel free to play in the mode they normally do. That's just not forcing the PvE players to play a certain way.

But by choosing PG/Solo to attack a PvP group we are forcing them to play our way only while hiding somewhere safe.
…

A group that owns a player faction and cares about the BGS is not pure PvP. The BGS is a (almost) pure PvE. Any group engaged in manipulating the BGS is doing PvE.

Nobody is forcing anybody to care about the BGS, but if someone cares that players decided to do PvE.

Players can't fight PvP with PvE or PvE with PvP. It simply don't work that way.

If players choose to play with the BGS they choose to play PvE.

 

[Gunnet]

No its totally true, PVP groups have access to special ships and other features that PVE players themselves do not have access to... /s

What you have here is knowledge from people who learned to play the game better than others and excuses from the people who hid from that skill curve.

Flame away but that is why there is so much QQ on this forums about gweefers and unfair game play.

Some people just need to accept they need to git gud and stop making excuses.

Admittedly FDEV did a terrible job at designing a multiplayer game. I think in some of their lies/marketing they described the game as an MMO https://media4.giphy.com/media/DeJ2ifS2V2zlu/200_s.gif

I wouldn't put it so bluntly as to say that PvP players need to learn to play the game better, or 'git gud' and stop making excuses to avoid PvE. But getting more into PvE would definitely help them gain a handle on how to effectively influence the BGS.

 

[Sentenza]

Indeed - don't confuse the soldiers in the field with the Politicians in the Capitol.

And how we do classify soldiers remotely managing drones?

They even get medals for that now!

 

[Powderpanic]

I wouldn't put it so bluntly as to say that PvP players need to learn to play the game better, or 'git gud' and stop making excuses to avoid PvE. But getting more into PvE would definitely help them gain a handle on how to effectively influence the BGS.

You will find most PVP players have a higher grasp on PVE than most PVE players.

Why? Simple, FDEV forced PVP players to do every single dull as watching paint dry PVE discipline to get access to the engineers, so that they could then PVP again.

Knowledge of the BGS is pretty simple and basically even more dull. Grind, Grind, Grind. Watch a percentage move, Grind Grind Grind. Oh look the system state has changed. Grind Grind Grind.
Oh a name on a piece of text has changed slightly. Grind Grind Grind... You get the point.

I know players who have loaded into a private group with turret Cutters, Fired a healing beam at each other and left the ships to farm in a CZ while they went to bed.
That's some high level PVP knowledge deployed in a PVE environment.

 

[Herbrand]

And how we do classify soldiers remotely managing drones?

They even get medals for that now!

Your nickname... You didn't happen to play in an Urban Terror clan named "GUG" didn't you?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You will find most PVP players have a higher grasp on PVE than most PVE players.

Judging by the OP, they're quite clueless

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

No its totally true, PVP groups have access to special ships and other features that PVE players themselves do not have access to... /s

What you have here is knowledge from people who learned to play the game better than others and excuses from the people who hid from that skill curve.

Flame away but that is why there is so much QQ on this forums about gweefers and unfair game play.

Some people just need to accept they need to git gud and stop making excuses.

Admittedly FDEV did a terrible job at designing a multiplayer game. I think in some of their lies/marketing they described the game as an MMO https://media4.giphy.com/media/DeJ2ifS2V2zlu/200_s.gif

the hypocrisy is this thread is astounding...... YES PvE players have access to all of the same stuff to build the same meta builds that PvPers build which are actually terrible for doing any of the actual other ingame things........ Though the logic of why I would do that escapes me.....

but then PvP players have access to the other modes as well!..... IF you want to out PvE PvE players then you can use the same tools that they use.
The key is in the game you bought. many MP games are PvP foucussed.. thankfully ED is not one of them. (in my view) it is an optional extra on top of a primarily PvE game.

 

[Sentenza]

It's a good redressing of the narrative of that rather childish period of our shared past.

As I recall, they simply said they didn't care about their BGS faction and to crack on and many lulz were had by them as they read the tales of PvE heroes nipple stroking themselves over reducing a faction to zero influence, when its owners didn't care about it in the first place.

Detractors of the campaign for the above (that it was a pointless, meaningless and generating a bitter toxic environment, and doing it from the safety net of solo/PG was bad form) were accused of being SDC shills or alt-accounts for SDC members while over zealously moderated out of the discussion by a moderation team that was turning a blind eye to a very public 'dump on one faction' event.

I also remember that I was there in Open along with many others and no SDC ever showed up

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It's a good redressing of the narrative of that rather childish period of our shared past.

As I recall, they simply said they didn't care about their BGS faction and to crack on and many lulz were had by them as they read the tales of PvE heroes nipple stroking themselves over reducing a faction to zero influence, when its owners didn't care about it in the first place.

Detractors of the campaign for the above (that it was a pointless, meaningless and generating a bitter toxic environment, and doing it from the safety net of solo/PG was bad form) were accused of being SDC shills or alt-accounts for SDC members while over zealously moderated out of the discussion by a moderation team that was turning a blind eye to a very public 'dump on one faction' event.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Admittedly FDEV did a terrible job at designing a multiplayer game. I think in some of their lies/marketing they described the game as an MMO https://media4.giphy.com/media/DeJ2ifS2V2zlu/200_s.gif

how is it NOT an MMO? the BGS part of the game is absolutely MMO. its just not direct PvP focused.. its still potentially 100,000s - depending on the player base of players doing PvE activities to "win" control of a system for a specific npc faction. its competitive PvE, NOT competitive PvP but i have not seen any rules which stated MMO has to be PvP focussed

whether it is a GOOD MMO is another discussion entirely. ...... Personally I would say no it isn’t. its a good multiplayer game, some what hamstrung by FDs insistence of controlling everything themselves for fear of hackers cheating the game..... which they do anyway.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Again true but as a very simple example, if I wanted to stop outbreak in my system what would happen if I destroyed every ship bringing biowaste in, but protected every ship taking it out and bringing meds in?

Highly ineffective compared to directly working the BGS and you'd never actually manage to do that. If the people brining biowaste in are even half competent, you'd be hard pressed to destroy them in the first place.

Oh yeah, as someone else noted, you would be pushing your own faction into lockdown. And on top, gain a bounty, so you'd end up being hunted by your own faction's system authority.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

and doing it from the safety net of solo/PG was bad form).

except as i said, I can confirm many players were doing it in open as well...... I say this as i witnessed it 1st hand. now whether SDC cared or not, is open to debate, but then, if they didnt care, then how selfish of them to accept having an npc faction in the game then, when there were plenty of other groups who DID/DO care about it, one of which lost out in favour of SDC. which kind of sums up SDC .

either way, SDC come off looking bad imo.

 

[Powderpanic]

how is it NOT an MMO? the BGS part of the game is absolutely MMO. its just not direct PvP focused.. its still potentially 100,000s - depending on the player base of players doing PvE activities to "win" control of a system for a specific npc faction.

whether it is a GOOD MMO is another discussion entirely. ...... Personally I would say no it isnt. its a good multiplayer game, some what hamstrung by FDs insistence of controlling everything themselves for fear of hackers cheating the game..... which they do anyway.

Saying ED is an MMO, is like saying Foosball is Football.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Highly ineffective compared to directly working the BGS and you'd never actually manage to do that. If the people brining biowaste in are even half competent, you'd be hard pressed to destroy them in the first place.

Not to mention that those who deliver biowaste are probably not even an organized group but just some random players accepting random missions to an agricultural system.
Those stupid biowaste missions are often very high paying.

 

[Theodrid]

It's a good redressing of the narrative of that rather childish period of our shared past.

As I recall, they simply said they didn't care about their BGS faction and to crack on and many lulz were had by them as they read the tales of PvE heroes nipple stroking themselves over reducing a faction to zero influence, when its owners didn't care about it in the first place.

Detractors of the campaign for the above (that it was a pointless, meaningless and generating a bitter toxic environment, and doing it from the safety net of solo/PG was bad form) were accused of being SDC shills or alt-accounts for SDC members while over zealously moderated out of the discussion by a moderation team that was turning a blind eye to a very public 'dump on one faction' event.

Yeah, sorry Goose but it is you who is rewriting history here and not the post you quoted, I realise it suits your narrative to do so but still....

The 'we don't care' line was nothing more than spin, they moaned about the tanking of their BGS faction plenty, right up until the point they realised they were unable to counter it, then, all of a sudden, shock horror, they didn't care. You can bet your bottom dollar if they had won that particular fight they would have cared and the forums would still be hearing the gloating to this day.

Mad Mike highlights some of the hypocrisy that we've had to put up with from said group(s) and that is the case here too. You see, these guys, (and possibly you), can't have it both ways, you/they can't scream and gnash collective teeth regarding how BGS manipulation from group and solo is unfair on one hand and then claim that the BGS doesn't bother you on the other, the two are incompatible. That is also true of the modes n general, if you/they do not care about the BGS - which is just about the only thing that has an effect in open with regards to tangible system changes etc then why ask for removal of said modes?

Sadly I think some of the PVP guys on these boards have tied themselves in knots with regards to the mental gymnastics the are performing trying to justify how the BGS doesn't matter, except when it suits them, and how the game should be open only because of things like the BGS manipulation that, apparently, doesn't matter, bizarre.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Saying ED is an MMO, is like saying Foosball is Football.

so at its core what IS an MMO?

and what are the features of the BGS and Power Play in ED and how is it NOT an MMO......

like i said good or bad is subjective, but (and i am not trying to be obtuse here) but honestly I am not getting what boxes are not being ticked (truth be told given a choice i would probably rather it was NOT an MMO if it meant we could have all the good stuff generally expecting in "simple" multiplayer space games.

PS arguably table football (the clue is in the name - foosball being shorthand for German word for football AFAIK) is closer to actual football than the rugby with body armour that the Americans call football (joking here btw in case i need to spell it out)

 

[JonLuis69]

I wouldn't put it so bluntly as to say that PvP players need to learn to play the game better, or 'git gud' and stop making excuses to avoid PvE. But getting more into PvE would definitely help them gain a handle on how to effectively influence the BGS.

Oh bravo!

 

[Goose4291]

It's not quicker and easier to maintain a 24/7 vigil with enough players to cover every instance on every platform than it is to run some meds in yourself. And if you destroy enough clean ships you'll just end up with a lockdown instead of an outbreak, which you will need to clear with PvE bounty hunting...

The playing field is hardly level when PvP groups face PvE groups in open either. One side is always going to have an advantage depending on whether or not there is direct PvP. It just happens that this particular game was built primarily around PvE, and like any game it tends to offer advantages to those who focus on the core gameplay.

That's the rub though. When people talk about PvP having an effect on PvE they're not talking about absolutes.

The easiest way to describe it from my Open PvE/PvP perspective is this.

Both you and I are engaged in a bit of BGS tomfoolery on opposing sides, and have got to the point where a war/civil war kicks off. We're both in a CZ at the time, and due to the instancing gods, we're in the same instance.

You have 10,000 cr of combat bonds accrued.
I have 10,000 cr of combat bonds accrued.

I kill you then go hand in my combat bonds.

I've negated your efforts (through PvP) and made steps towards my objective (through PvE).

A group that owns a player faction and cares about the BGS is not pure PvP. The BGS is a (almost) pure PvE. Any group engaged in manipulating the BGS is doing PvE.

Except when, for example, they're doing said BGS to harvest some tears (like SDC did with that Colonia campaign recently).

Nobody is forcing anybody to care about the BGS, but if someone cares that players decided to do PvE.

I'll remind you about that next time there's a UA bombing/lockdown of a CG and the forums tearing at it's breast because their precious cr/hr ratios have been affected.

Players can't fight PvP with PvE or PvE with PvP. It simply don't work that way.

See above re: reply to Gunnet.

If players choose to play with the BGS they choose to play PvE.

Well that depends on their objectives. If it's to attack another player/prevent them achieving their aims, in my mind that's indirect PvP.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
Except when, for example, they're doing said BGS to harvest some tears (like SDC did with that Colonia campaign recently).

In that case they are playing an other game - outside the game. But the fact remains, to manipulate the BGS you need to PvE.

I'll remind you about that next time there's a UA bombing/lockdown of a CG and the forums tearing at it's breast because their precious cr/hr ratios have been affected.

No need to remind me about it, but do it if it makes you feel better.
A station in lockdown or being UA bombed is PvE and players need to do PvE things to remove the lockdown or UA bombing effect.

Now, we can discuss potential motivations for causing stations into lockdown or UA bomb them and if out of game motivations for doing so (see above about harvesting tears) are acceptable or not. Such discussions are always fun.

See above re: reply to Gunnet.

If both players find themselves in a CZ it's just as much about PvP as it is about PvE. And the good BGS player usually has already won the war before the state "(civil) war" is triggered.
And even in that case, both players have to be in the same instance at the same time and the player not interested in PvP can jump out and farm combat bonds somewhere else or at an other time.
But that players surely shouldn't complain about getting blown up in a CZ by an other player.

Well that depends on their objectives. If it's to attack another player/prevent them achieving their aims, in my mind that's indirect PvP.

If they have other goals beyond the pure game mechanics, then you can start to clarify it the way you want. Doesn't change the game mechanics at all.